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It's supposed to be his worst nightmare... seemed like a walk in the park!

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  • #16
    I know I should just stop myself from responding to Clark bashing threads, but...

    Personally, I loved that Clark was able to maintain his strength and composure, even while being tortured, and even while facing his worst fear. TW played him, brilliantly might I add, with a quiet calm and dignity. He wasn't going to let this sadistic animal see him cry, or grovel, or break. He remained as stong as he could be. He dared this person to come face him. He stayed on his feet as long as he could. I loved the scenes of him struggling to get back up on his feet. I found it very meaningful. He's facing his biggest fear standing up, and he's going to keep trying until he physically can't anymore.

    Seems to me that some people are always complaining that Clark is too emo, or whatever this weeks criticism is. But when Clark shows fortitude, and courage and strength of character, then he's not showing enough emotion? Talk about never being able to win

    As for the confrontation with Lionel, I couldn't have been more pleased with that. We've seen Clark fly off the handle before, and its not pretty, but he's grown up. He walks in confidently, he asks the right questions. You can see he's angry, he's hurt, he's disappointed, he's betrayed. But most of all, he's calm. Just as the he'll need to be in the future when he's Superman. IMO, it was so much more effective then if he had flown off the handle, or yelled and screamed. This was a mature, composed Clark who handled a horrific ordeal with dignity and strength.

    I thought he was amazing. JMHO
    Last edited by BadToad; 03-21-2008, 09:07 AM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Hopefulsuicide
      I loved the episode in every way except one, and that bugs me alot

      I mean Lana's 'ill kill him if he hurts clark' thing was perfect, and said with this cold simplicity. Chloe's reasoning with Jor-el was heart felt. Lionel's stuttering attemtps at an explanation showed how frightened of loosing clark he is, and lex wiping the blood off patricia's necklace with this intregued look on his face was really chilling.

      But Clark showed nothing.

      Ever since he was tiny his parents drilled into him to keep his secret, because they were afraid someone would take him away and keep him locked up and study him. He has probably had hundreds of nightmares about a man like peirce. A sadistic man who would call him a freak and hurt him.

      It happened! well not the studying part, but the torture and the calling him a freak and being locked up. Why wasn't he more terrified. It was just terrible acting. I felt no emotion from Clark the whole time he was in that cage. I wanted to see terror in his eyes, something actually dramatic.

      Then when he was out, and he said 'i'll deal with lionel' i thought there might be hope of seeing this drama. The man he trusted even after everything he had done, just put him through the most horrible experiance of his life. I expect him to be so angry, to yell at him, to look at him in complete disgust.

      Didn't get that either. He just looked a little annoyed, and kinda dissapointed. I would have spat in Lionel's face!

      It just let the whole episode down for me.
      I agree totally with that cage and locked up part of yours! That's the reason I gave this ep only a 8 in the "loved it or hated it?" thread. Tom did this pain and fear stuff much better in other ep's, e.g. in "Extinction" S3, where he's shot with that kryptonite bullet. That scene was terrific, concerning his acting!!! Everytime I watched this scene so far, I always get chills and you believe every second, that Clark's in so much pain and that he's terrified.
      I expected the same in "Traveler" as soon as I heard about that cage thing - but it was different and I didn't get chills.
      And I don't want to talk again, about the different reactions to kryptonite all over the seasons, because I did it so many times in other threads. Only this one: With so much kryptonite around him, he must not have been able to stand up again and again, when on other times he could barely lift his arm. This is really so not logical!

      Concerning that scene between Lionel and Clark, I thought it was really good, but you're right, too, Clark could have been a little more loud and more furious! I loooove Tom playing angry Clark - that's so amazing!!

      Originally posted by LexLuv180
      Hmmmm...well I've already said a few times I think Clark shows less emotion in general in every way this entire season.....
      Dear LexLuv, I did agree with that for so many times now, I hope you don't mind? But unfortunately it is true. The only thing, which was better in this ep, was his hair ;o)
      It looked better than the other ep's before

      Originally posted by LexLuv180
      I would have figured the Kryptonian cage would have hurt him more when it wasn't turned up higher, too. I mean, a small necklace can make him fall to his knees, but being in a cage where it's hardly turned up didn't phase him at first?
      Like I said above

      Originally posted by litew8
      If there was EVER a time for Clark's ears to have bleed (ligitimately, not like in Siren), it was when the power was cranked up to 100.
      Yeah, didn't thought about that, but you're right. But he still could hold up his hand when it was on 100 and to somehow reach out to Kara, or what was that ment to be actually?
      I would have expected, that on level 100, he would at least faint. But no, he stood almost up again, as soon as Kara lifted up that cage. Sorry, but I didn't buy that either, not after being exposed for quite a long time to kryptonite.
      Last edited by Yasise; 03-21-2008, 09:15 AM.

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      • #18
        I must admit I was quite happy with Clark, too. My complaint concerning the scenes in the cage is with the effect of Kryptonite on Clark. They could have used more CGI effects to show his veins get bigger or whatever happens to him when he's exposed to Kryptonite. He was bleeding- Fine. But that's only because of the Kryptonite darts used to capture him.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Yasise
          I agree totally with that cage and locked up part of yours! That's the reason I gave this ep only a 8 in the "loved it or hated it?" thread. Tom did this pain and fear stuff much better in other ep's, e.g. in "Extinction" S3, where he's shot with that kryptonite bullet. That scene was terrific, concerning his acting!!! Everytime I watched this scene so far, I always get chills and you believe every second, that Clark's in so much pain and that he's terrified.
          .
          your right, that scene was perfect, and he was scared and it was obvious, but he still went out after him, showing how brave he was

          this scene didnt show how brave he was... you have to overcome fear in order to appear brave in my eyes... i saw no fear, and no overcoming of it

          even when Kara saved him, his thankyou seemed so normal, like he was thanking her for stopping a cake from buring in the oven... no distress, no 'please, get me out of here' like that wonderful chilling line to Lex in memoria

          it was just devoid of emotion

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Hopefulsuicide
            your right, that scene was perfect, and he was scared and it was obvious, but he still went out after him, showing how brave he was

            this scene didnt show how brave he was... you have to overcome fear in order to appear brave in my eyes... i saw no fear, and no overcoming of it

            even when Kara saved him, his thankyou seemed so normal, like he was thanking her for stopping a cake from buring in the oven... no distress, no 'please, get me out of here' like that wonderful chilling line to Lex in memoria

            it was just devoid of emotion
            Yeas, I said in other threads before, there is that thing with Kara and Clark. I don't feel any chemistry between them at all. Scenes with the two cousins are always so "normal" and almost reserved. I always get the feeling that they don't like each other so much. Even after that rescue in the barn later I missed the warmth that should have been there between them.

            Hello, she just saved your life, Clark, and you don't even hug her!?

            No instead you stay where you are, above on that stairs, and talk to her like you would talk about the weather. It was so not emotional at all, what was that???

            And I know, that Tom could have done it better, and that's the reason, why I don't understand it.

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            • #21
              Well I thought TW did great. If there had been visible fear in the cage it would have been over the top in my opinion as there was nobody to play off. His reaction was just right pain and defiance as he didn't know who had trapped him in the cage and he couldn't see his captors.

              If he had been injected with kryptonite and subjected to tests like Chloe was when she was kidnapped then fear would be justifiable as that would be a true definition of his nightmare - being experimented on. In the cage he didn't what was going on just the pain of the varying levels of kryptonite. When you're in that much pain it leaves little room for feeling or thinking about much else.

              The scene with Lionel was perfect, you could sense Lionel's unease and fear at the impending confrontation. I was expecting Clark to be a little angrier and he did show a bit of that when he said "so you lock me in a kryptonite cage?, why would you even build something like that?"

              My only problem was the time between Clark being rescued by Kara and the confrontation with Lionel. He obviously went up to that room in the faciltity as he took Patricia back to his house but it seems odd that he would wait until the next day to confront Lionel.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Hopefulsuicide
                Then when he was out, and he said 'i'll deal with lionel' i thought there might be hope of seeing this drama. The man he trusted even after everything he had done, just put him through the most horrible experiance of his life. I expect him to be so angry, to yell at him, to look at him in complete disgust.

                Didn't get that either. He just looked a little annoyed, and kinda dissapointed. I would have spat in Lionel's face!

                It just let the whole episode down for me.
                That's just a testament to TW's lack of a decent acting background. He's sometimes stiff in his acting at times and isn't known at all for adlib performances. Luckily and interstingly enough, the lack of that quality usually fits into the role of this version of Clark Kent.

                Ever notice that you rarely see Clark really angry. And even in the instances that he is, TW does not put a enough emotion into Clark. He'll yell (when speaking to Jor-El) but other than that it's a slight lean forward and an upset face with a "You're not my friend anymore" type of feel. You won't get much more than that.

                TW can get away with it on SV since Clark is probably supposed to be a master at restraining himself when upset. Otherwise Ma and Pa Kent would never take him to the shopping center as a kid knowing he'd throw a fit whenever he didn't get the toy he wanted.
                Last edited by boywithbluehanger; 03-21-2008, 10:29 AM.

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                • #23
                  I don't know. I thought he did a great job. I really winced every single time he got tortured.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by clarkbunny
                    Well I thought TW did great. If there had been visible fear in the cage it would have been over the top in my opinion as there was nobody to play off. His reaction was just right pain and defiance as he didn't know who had trapped him in the cage and he couldn't see his captors.

                    If he had been injected with kryptonite and subjected to tests like Chloe was when she was kidnapped then fear would be justifiable as that would be a true definition of his nightmare - being experimented on. In the cage he didn't what was going on just the pain of the varying levels of kryptonite. When you're in that much pain it leaves little room for feeling or thinking about much else.

                    The scene with Lionel was perfect, you could sense Lionel's unease and fear at the impending confrontation. I was expecting Clark to be a little angrier and he did show a bit of that when he said "so you lock me in a kryptonite cage?, why would you even build something like that?"

                    My only problem was the time between Clark being rescued by Kara and the confrontation with Lionel. He obviously went up to that room in the faciltity as he took Patricia back to his house but it seems odd that he would wait until the next day to confront Lionel.
                    the whole time he was in the cage he had no idea what was going to happen to him or who had him... he assumed it was the government, so you can assumed he thought he was going to get experimented on... and i dont see how him being in pain means he cant be afraid... i'd say every time he got exposed to that much pain he would show more fear when it was let off a bit... i mean he did a bit of trying to get out when he threw himself at the cage but it wasnt very effective

                    and thats fair enough if your found the scene perfect, i just thought if it were me i'd be alot angrier with Lionel for risking my life by leaving it in the hands of that sadistic torturer

                    ----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

                    Originally posted by boywithbluehanger
                    That's just a testament to TW's lack of a decent acting background. He's sometimes stiff in his acting at times and isn't known at all for adlib performances. Luckily and interstingly enough, the lack of that quality usually fits into the role of this version of Clark Kent.

                    Ever notice that you rarely see Clark really angry. And even in the instances that he is, TW does not put a enough emotion into Clark. He'll yell (when speaking to Jor-El) but other than that it's a slight lean forward and an upset face with a "You're not my friend anymore" type of feel. You won't get much more than that.

                    TW can get away with it on SV since Clark is probably supposed to be a master at restraining himself when upset. Otherwise Ma and Pa Kent would never take him to the shopping center as a kid knowing he'd throw a fit whenever he didn't get the toy he wanted.
                    agreed LOL... i know it's mostly his acting
                    Last edited by Hopefulsuicide; 03-21-2008, 10:48 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by boywithbluehanger
                      That's just a testament to TW's lack of a decent acting background. He's sometimes stiff in his acting at times and isn't known at all for adlib performances. Luckily and interstingly enough, the lack of that quality usually fits into the role of this version of Clark Kent.

                      Ever notice that you rarely see Clark really angry. And even in the instances that he is, TW does not put a enough emotion into Clark. He'll yell (when speaking to Jor-El) but other than that it's a slight lean forward and an upset face with a "You're not my friend anymore" type of feel. You won't get much more than that.

                      TW can get away with it on SV since Clark is probably supposed to be a master at restraining himself when upset. Otherwise Ma and Pa Kent would never take him to the shopping center as a kid knowing he'd throw a fit whenever he didn't get the toy he wanted.
                      I disagree. Tom is so much able to act angry, e.g. in "Rogue" S1, where he gets really very angry with that cop, who wants to use his abilities for his own purposes. Sorry, but that scene in the kitchen was very much an angry Clark!
                      And when he was Kal-El, he got very angry, too, especially with Morgan Edge, when he came to the farm after Clark.

                      I think Tom has enough talent, to not need a "decent acting background" as you put it. He's really a master of showing Clark's emotions, without saying a single word.

                      But, as I said in other threads before, it seems lately, that he doesn't put so much emotions into Clark anymore, since season 7 began. Maybe lack of enthusiasm for Smallville after so many years...???

                      So you're partially right, with what you've said, IMO, but only concerning season 7 so far. The other seasons he was perfect in terms of showing Clark's emotions.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Hopefulsuicide
                        I loved the episode in every way except one, and that bugs me alot

                        I mean Lana's 'ill kill him if he hurts clark' thing was perfect, and said with this cold simplicity. Chloe's reasoning with Jor-el was heart felt. Lionel's stuttering attemtps at an explanation showed how frightened of loosing clark he is, and lex wiping the blood off patricia's necklace with this intregued look on his face was really chilling.

                        But Clark showed nothing.

                        Ever since he was tiny his parents drilled into him to keep his secret, because they were afraid someone would take him away and keep him locked up and study him. He has probably had hundreds of nightmares about a man like peirce. A sadistic man who would call him a freak and hurt him.

                        It happened! well not the studying part, but the torture and the calling him a freak and being locked up. Why wasn't he more terrified. It was just terrible acting. I felt no emotion from Clark the whole time he was in that cage. I wanted to see terror in his eyes, something actually dramatic.

                        Then when he was out, and he said 'i'll deal with lionel' i thought there might be hope of seeing this drama. The man he trusted even after everything he had done, just put him through the most horrible experiance of his life. I expect him to be so angry, to yell at him, to look at him in complete disgust.

                        Didn't get that either. He just looked a little annoyed, and kinda dissapointed. I would have spat in Lionel's face!

                        It just let the whole episode down for me.
                        What?! Did you not see the restraint Clark had on his face as he confronted Lionel? Lionel told Clark "I'm a changed man." There was a moment of hesitation and then Clark flatly and condemningly says, "No you're not." Sure Clark could have thrown Lionel out the window or tossed him around or yelled at him. Then posters would be on here saying, "That's not a Superman thing to do." They would be griping about how uncharacteristic that was just like they are now when Clark said the Luthors are not redeemable. Clark held back quite a bit but delivered the one line that would show Lionel Clark was not going to be fooled any longer.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Hopefulsuicide
                          the whole time he was in the cage he had no idea what was going to happen to him or who had him... he assumed it was the government, so you can assumed he thought he was going to get experimented on... and i dont see how him being in pain means he cant be afraid... i'd say every time he got exposed to that much pain he would show more fear when it was let off a bit... i mean he did a bit of trying to get out when he threw himself at the cage but it wasnt very effective

                          and thats fair enough if your found the scene perfect, i just thought if it were me i'd be alot angrier with Lionel for risking my life by leaving it in the hands of that sadistic torturer...........
                          Yes, it could have been more, e.g. the much more pain of that "Clark has been shot" scene of "Extinction", a little paranoia of "Splinter" and a little more fear of "Labyrinth" altogether in that cage scenes - WOW, that would have been a real treat!!

                          Tom, you could have done it better!

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                          • #28
                            I agree with BadToad that TPTB and director seemed to want a more dignified and calm Clark. Also when you are in so much pain other emotions don't necessarily show through.

                            I did think Clark would be more pissed in his last conversation with Lionel. But I also think Lionel was scared and was more disappointed that he lost Clark's confidence. For Clark, what's done is done, move on. And now Lionel won't be included and that will hurt Lionel more than if Clark lashed out.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Jaded Wolf
                              What?! Did you not see the restraint Clark had on his face as he confronted Lionel?
                              i really didn't... i'm sorry, i usually love Clark/ Lionel confrontations, but this one left me dry

                              ----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

                              Originally posted by All about Clark
                              I agree with BadToad that TPTB and director seemed to want a more dignified and calm Clark. Also when you are in so much pain other emotions don't necessarily show through.

                              I did think Clark would be more pissed in his last conversation with Lionel. But I also think Lionel was scared and was more disappointed that he lost Clark's confidence. For Clark, what's done is done, move on. And now Lionel won't be included and that will hurt Lionel more than if Clark lashed out.
                              if the directors wanted a more dignified and calm clark... then it's them im gonna moan at

                              you dont show a characters worst fear, something which has been talked about and built up during the show and played on in episodes like 'memoria' (which was a thousand times more convincing, even when lex confronted him after and said 'my father used you as a lab rat' and there was a definate jumpiness and unease about clark) and do it with calm and dignity

                              thats not how a fantasy/drama works... its unrealistic, and it takes away the tension

                              how are we supposed to be on the edge of our seats worried bout Clark and egging Chloe on and feeling all that emotion... if the one we are supposed to be worried about is 'calm and dignified'?
                              Last edited by Hopefulsuicide; 03-21-2008, 12:10 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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                              • #30
                                Actually I felt Memoria had a lot to do with Clark's fear of imprisonment and that he is less afraid. He's been shown to really deal well with whatever situation he faces, because he constantly faces stuff regularly than you and I wouldn't need to face. I like that they have shown him to have matured from Memoria. I wouldn't want him as wigged out as he was then. And he has had many years to deal with this fear. Just as his fear of heights, he's constantly accepting these things better. Some people's fears grow and some overcome them and I think Clark overcomes them based on so many experiences.

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