Kensei and 400 years

[Barogrei]

Although I don't htink that Adam has demonstrated anything, in the present time, that constitutes him being a villain, yet, he has shown from his values in the very distant past, that he definitely has actualized that potentiality. The question is now, have the 400 years he has spent implied a sort of reflection or forgiveness. If Heroes were, in fact, the real world, and I was watching what I believed to be actual people, I would be inclined to say that it is very likely, especially from what present-time Adam has demonstrated, that he has, in fact, had a change of heart. However, knowing the inclinations of writers to make characters that they feel to be more pronounced, or further the plot, I feel that they will probably stick to the idea that Kensei bore his hatred for Hiro taking his true love over the centuries. Someone said that Kensei always was a bad guy, I'd be more inclined to say that as he was, I wouldn't consider him a villain so much as I would a happy-go-lucky opportunist. But my interpretation may be wrong. If he engaged in a rigged duel with someone to take their money and kill them, perhaps with an accomplice to ensure his victorty, he would have qualified as a villain.

EDIT: This is actually very amusing, I did not intend to make this a new thread but a response to another one. I'm sorry.

[Son of Kal-El20]

I don't think Hiro is the only person he wants pay back on. I think there are several people he wants to pay back.

[samwinchestermustdie]

agreed kensei is essentially ted bundy. he has alot of charm and then he will throw you a right hook. and i guess the skepticism of his ability of immortally has been put to rest now.

[Mello Penelo]

Ted Bundy? How can you possibly compare Adam to Ted Bundy? Adam is good. Bundy was a serial killer.

[RedPhoenix23]

Originally posted by Mello Penelo
Ted Bundy? How can you possibly compare Adam to Ted Bundy? Adam is good. Bundy was a serial killer.

And apparently Adam wants to be responsible for the apocolpse in Hiro's present day, just because Hiro kissed his girl over four hundred years ago. If that's not a psyhco then I don't know what is.

[Barogrei]

Well, the point of similarity between Adam and Bundy is that both can potentially be rather charming, and Mello Penello distinguished Adam from Bundy on the grounds that Bundy was a serial killer. It is likely that Adam, in dealing guns to WhiteBeard, could have caused hundreds or thousands to die. I realize that this is much less direct or personal than Bundy's personally killing about thirty people, and that Bundy's motivations were probably much more pathologically disturbing than Adam's, but I believe the similarity remains. Kensei did not come off to me, or many, I don't think, as a sinister sociopath, when we were first introduced to him, but as a happy-go-lucky opportunist, perhaps immoral but not monstrously so. His actions later revealed that despite this charming persona, he still had the potential to be very ruthless in his pursuit of revenge, disregarding the well-beings of many other people, single-mindedly pursuing his goal. Bundy's goal may have been a great, sadistic pleasure at the pain of others, and Kensei's may have been revenge at Hiro for taking his girl, but both conceal a strong potential for evil beneath a charming guise. I think it's possible that Kensei reformed over the (400) years, as he really hasn't done anything in "4 months ago" that would make him a villain, but I have a feeling that the direction that they are going with him is one of manipulating others to his own sinister end. I do concede, however that it is possible, from what we've seen, that Present-time Adam is good and actually wants to help people. I do not think it's likely.

[Mello Penelo]

There's a big difference in being a villain and being out only for yourself.

Adam is the latter. He's not bad. Just self-centered.

[flying_girl]

im inclined to think that adam wouldnt carry a grudge over 400 yrs, its not like he ever saw hiro again to reinforce the grudge. just cuz he made a promise doesnt mean that 400 yrs later he is going to keep it.
on the other hand look at the hatfields and the mcoys or other familys like them. they carried their grudge long after they forgot why their ancestors started it.

[Equitex]

A long shot here..

But I feel that Adam is holding a grudge and is the one that pushed Hiro's father off the building (revenge and hence the regeneration to be able to walk away from the fall)..

In the previous episode it was explained that Adam was the one that convinced everyone to get together.

Possibly, a founding member of "The Company".. meaning that even if Hiro did not go back in time to change the past.. Adam was already a "villain".. or perhaps because Hiro changed history, Adam then became the villain of present day?

[Barogrei]

Mello Pennelo, you say there is a big difference between being a villain and being out for yourself, I think that point needs further clarification. If I am out strictly for myself, and take my interest as the only motivating object in consideration of action, I will necessarily pursue it being what is conventionally considered to be moral at all. If I hold my own self-interest, or whatever my inclinations may be as the only object of interest to me, it logically follows that I will kill someone if that fulfills it, as I do not place anything but the teleology of my own gain as a rationale for acting. It is true that one could accept the teleology of their own selfish gain as all they wish to pursue, but hold that teleology prima facie (basically it can be disregarded in special circumstances), and, with that qualification, I suppose you could have a selfish person that qualifies as a non-villain. But, when one thinks of a selfish person, they often think of the former definition.

If Adam seeks the pursuit of revenge and considers no other issues as relevant reasons to act or abstain from action, than he is most definitely a villain.

[hansioux]

My question is this. Bob mentioned that Adam's power was to manipulate fluids. He can cause a rain or a tsunami. Right? I thought that's what he said.

But in the end, it turned out to be Kensei, whose power is healing. And We've seen nothing else to say otherwise.

So what's his real power? Does he have multiple powers? If so, how?

Also, if he has power other than healing, he could have not taken the pill like Peter and use to toilet bowl's water and blast a way outta there. Why didn't he do it?

If that is the case, does that make his character stupid?

[Matro]

I don't remember Bob saying that. He said something about a hurricane turning into a blizzard, but it could have been someone other than Adam. Maybe one of his disciples had that power. I don't believe that Adam has more than one power.

I also agree that 400 years is a really long time to hold a grudge. Hell, if it was me, I'd have probably forgotten it even happened. Sure Hiro "stole" Adam's girl, but he also helped Adam discover his power and do great things. Adam even said something like he respected Hiro for that.

[RedPhoenix23]

Originally posted by Matro
I don't remember Bob saying that. He said something about a hurricane turning into a blizzard, but it could have been someone other than Adam. Maybe one of his disciples had that power. I don't believe that Adam has more than one power.

That's what I remember. Bob was saying that Adam was the one that got them together to "save the world" and in the beginning all way honky dory and they did great things like turning the hurricane into a blizzard but it all went to hell when Adam started talking about killing off large percentages of the population and he and others started to think that they were gods among men.

I also agree that 400 years is a really long time to hold a grudge. Hell, if it was me, I'd have probably forgotten it even happened. Sure Hiro "stole" Adam's girl, but he also helped Adam discover his power and do great things. Adam even said something like he respected Hiro for that.

See, that's what I think. So if Adam is all evil crazy simply because Hiro kissed his girl over four hundred years ago, then I am sorry but I think that is just retarded. Yeako (The Princess) wasn't ALL THAT.

[Barogrei]

I don't understand how he would qualify as retarded, for holding that tenet as the motivation for his evil acts, if he did them, but rather simply that he has different objects of desire than you. For example, I may not hold the same object of desire as someone collecting stamps, and may find it incomprehensible that they are investing so much of themselves into a pursuit I find to be boring, or fruitless, but I do not call them retarded for pursuing them. I think it may be wrong for Adam to try to justify many wrongs simply under the evenlope that Hiro took is girl, but not actually stupid. He still understands the means-ends relationships between his actions, and is capable of understanding concepts. What definition of retarded are you using?

[hansioux]

To say Adam planned the meeting with Peter, means that he could see into the future, which isn't the case.

So if Adam just seized the opportunity to manipulate Peter, it means he was manipulated by the group he assembled, and put into the cell, which he just sat on his butt until opportunity presented itself.

And Linderman, being Adam's disciple, being a crime lord, did nothing to get Adam out.

Anyway, with this time travel thing, there are a lot of loops holes waiting to trip the show on it's behind.