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  • #16
    Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I thought I was going crazy. I remember now that I have two comics (no idea where they are at present), one of them had wonder woman and superman having a kid. This is obviously where I got the guardian guy from. Thanks again.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by shadowcat20x
      Holy DC trivia, Mvblacnyte man You sure know your stuff!

      I was always under the impression that Superman created the justice league, but from your previous responses it looks like this is not true. My question is - just who did form the JLA?
      The Golden Age JSA was founded by:
      Flash (Jay Garrick)
      Green Lantern (Alan Scott)
      Hawkman (Carter Hall)
      Sandman (Wesley Dodds)
      Spectre (Jim Corrigan)
      Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson)
      Hourman (Rex Tyler)
      Atom (Al Pratt)
      Johnny Thunder and Thunderbolt

      Superman and Batman became honorary members.

      The Silver Age saw the creation of the Justice League, founded by:

      Superman
      Batman
      Wonder Woman
      Flash (Barry Allen)
      Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
      Aquaman
      Martian Manhunter

      So Superman and Batman were involved in the founding of the JLA, but they only accepted honorary membership because both were needed too much outside the League to commit to them full time. However, both also appeared in many JLA stories and before the League ever went to their satellite headquarters, were essentially full members. By that time, the membership had swelled to its full Silver Age proportions, where nearly every costumed hero of the era was considered either a full member, honorary member, or adjunct/associate, and could be called on to aid the League.
      In the 80's, Batman cut all ties with the JLA and formed the Outsiders.

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      • #18
        Here's an impossible one MV, one I've struggled with for years.

        How did Barry Allen become a founding member of the post crisis justice league, when he was dead before the post crisis universe even came into existance? LOL

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        • #19
          That's simple. The Post-Crisis universe began to exist zillions of years ago, and contained one Earth where Barry was born, helped found the League, and died. The Post-Crisis universe did not start its existence after Barry died. We only started to become aware of it as comics readers after the publication in 1985-86 of those issues of "Crisis."
          Last edited by dsv100; 02-07-2006, 09:55 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by dsv100
            That's simple. The Post-Crisis universe began to exist zillions of years ago, and contained one Earth where Barry was born, helped found the League, and died. The Post-Crisis universe did not start its existence after Barry died. We only started to become aware of it as comics readers after the publication in 1985-86 of those issues of "Crisis."
            Good answer!
            It can be fleshed out a bit, too. Even though the MOS mini-series that re-introduced Superman was written and published after the Crisis, it took place BEFORE the Crisis. All the heroes remember the Crisis, but not exactly what happened in it, and also not any of the characters that no longer existed after the universe rebooted. It's not as if the universe began at the point we all remember after Crisis. As DSV said, the universe they remember had many similarities to the new DCU of the time, including a Barry Allen that was a founding member of the JLA, and whose hero was Jay Garrick of the JSA... though not a fictional Jay Garrick.

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            • #21
              the problem I've always had with that, is that Wally is the Flash, right after Superman's debut. Barry makes not one post crisis appearance as a living being. People always make references to having met him, but he's absolutely nowhere in any post crisis comic. WE're all left to just imagine he existed, but died, somehow before anyone else did. Everyone remembers crisis yes, but none of them were heroes for more than thirty seconds then, and no one could have known barry that well. They just didn't have the time to. THa'ts been one of my biggest post crisis beefs.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by HalJordan4184
                the problem I've always had with that, is that Wally is the Flash, right after Superman's debut. Barry makes not one post crisis appearance as a living being. People always make references to having met him, but he's absolutely nowhere in any post crisis comic. WE're all left to just imagine he existed, but died, somehow before anyone else did. Everyone remembers crisis yes, but none of them were heroes for more than thirty seconds then, and no one could have known barry that well. They just didn't have the time to. THa'ts been one of my biggest post crisis beefs.
                But you have the timeline wrong. They had been heroes for years before the Crisis. It only seemed like they all debuted after the Crisis. Their origins and new debut stories were all supposed to have taken place long before the Crisis, and then the stories took up again shortly after the Crisis. It was something that occurred in the middle of their careers, not at the beginning.

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                • #23
                  I guess, maybe I'm just bitter he really had no real post crisis presence. He just was, wihtout ever really being there, or interacting with the post crisis versions of everyone.

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                  • #24
                    [Barry] ... he's absolutely nowhere in any post crisis comic.
                    "JLA Year One," "Flash & Green Lantern, The Brave & the Bold," "JLA Incarnations," "Secret Origins" #32, "The Life Story of the Flash," etc.

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                    • #25
                      I'm talking, like in a Flash title. He's just gone after 1986. Even when the post crisis origins of character's were being done, Barry just up and vanishes for the most part. He's in flash back tales. But oyu never see him say founding the current post crisis league. The league is already founded, and oyu have to read a flashback to get it.

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                      • #26
                        ... well, yeah. You have to read a flashback, since the character is dead, in order to read about something he did while alive.

                        Am I missing something here?

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                        • #27
                          no, i just wish we could have had barry for awhile. When i first picked up a comic, i had known barry allen was the flash. THen i look, and it's wally west. So i'm like what happened to Barry? This being the wonderful days before the internet, i ended up being totally lost for years. Until i got older, and was like, oh, so barry died in the crisis. But then im reading post crisis, and barry is nowhere to be found. THe only post crisis flash stories, already have wally as the flash, and i got even more confused. As a new reader, figuring out the barry thing and the crisis on my own, it sucked. I was just wishing for a few post crisis barry stories to clear up the confusion. You know. I don't know, wishful thinking i guess, forget i said anything, lol.

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                          • #28
                            So... if Barry died in the Crisis but no one remembers exactly what happened in it, despite knowing that it happened (which sounds like a big, effin' "WHAT?"), then do they remember how he died? Did they just find themselves back on Earth knowing that Flash died but not how. Why wouldn't they try to find out how, and more importantly, why he died?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by j03superbat
                              So... if Barry died in the Crisis but no one remembers exactly what happened in it, despite knowing that it happened (which sounds like a big, effin' "WHAT?"), then do they remember how he died? Did they just find themselves back on Earth knowing that Flash died but not how. Why wouldn't they try to find out how, and more importantly, why he died?
                              They remember the Crisis quite clearly, and fighting the Anti-Monitor to keep him from destroying the positive matter universe and using its energies to make the anti-matter universe stronger. And they remember Barry dying during that struggle, or at least finding what was left of his remains after he died.

                              What they DON'T remember about the Crisis is the fact that multiple positive matter universes were involved, or that those universes even existed, or the characters from them. To get technical about it, it wasn't just Earth-2, Earth-S, etc. that ceased to exist afterward... so did Earth-1. The Earth left over after Crisis was a totally new Earth, hence the reboots of several characters, including some dead ones. (Wonder Woman springs to mind, having died in the original Crisis and then been rebooted post-Crisis. They don't remember her having fought in Crisis at all, since the one who died never existed.) But it was decided NOT to reboot Barry Allen, and to make his death during Crisis one that was remembered, for editorial reasons. Conversely, it was decided also NOT to reboot Supergirl, but to make her death and her character one that was NOT remembered, in order to make Superman more unique.

                              Basically, their memories of the Crisis are complete, but different than what we all read in the books. They don't remember the characters who can't have existed (Superman-2, Robin-2, etc.), and only remember a few of those who died who COULD have existed, like Barry.

                              That's all changing now, though, and I think we're going to see after IC that all the heroes are going to remember, like Power Girl now does, and they will know exactly what took place.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by HalJordan4184
                                no, i just wish we could have had barry for awhile. When i first picked up a comic, i had known barry allen was the flash. THen i look, and it's wally west. So i'm like what happened to Barry? This being the wonderful days before the internet, i ended up being totally lost for years. Until i got older, and was like, oh, so barry died in the crisis. But then im reading post crisis, and barry is nowhere to be found. THe only post crisis flash stories, already have wally as the flash, and i got even more confused. As a new reader, figuring out the barry thing and the crisis on my own, it sucked. I was just wishing for a few post crisis barry stories to clear up the confusion. You know. I don't know, wishful thinking i guess, forget i said anything, lol.
                                Well, Wally did become the Flash in Crisis #12. Which explains no post crisis Barry.

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