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  1. #1
    Not us united costas22's Avatar
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    Wallis Day joins the show (Spoilers)

    Apparently Kate Kane has been recast.

    http://batwomantv.com/kryptons-walli...twoman-recast/

    I was really shocked by this. I didn't expect they would recast her and they would just bring back Ruby for the odd episode. At the same time, it's a very funny turn of events. They originally cast an actress who was a questionable choice to play Kate Kane. Then when she left they made another questionable choice: to have a random character become the new Batwoman. And now at the third time of asking they finally cast a very good actress to be Kate Kane/Batwoman. Unless she turns villain and they stick with Ryan Wilder as Batwoman (truth be told, Wallis makes a terrific bad girl)...

    Whatever the case, this is definitely a step in the right direction for the show. Wallis is an excellent actress and she stole the show in Krypton as the series went on.

  2. #2
    The New Legacy!!! darkphoenix21's Avatar
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    It’s just so strange why Ruby Rose wasn’t just recast from the beginning. TPTB were so adamant that Kate Kane wouldn’t be recast. It wasn’t like we were six seasons deep and all of a sudden Ruby Rose couldn’t take the pain of her injury any longer. They were aware very early on that she was struggling with it. Most of us wouldn’t have bat an eye for the recast, especially knowing it was only after this first season.

  3. #3
    Not us united costas22's Avatar
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    They probably hoped Ruby Rose would return this season for some appearances. When that didn't happen, they decided to recast. Or maybe they figured that the Ryan Wilder experiment was a bust and they decided to go back to Kate Kane as the regular Batwoman (casting Wallis in the role since Ruby wouldn't return full time).

    I haven't watched one episode of this show, but I doubt its storylines are anywhere near as intriguing as its behind the scenes drama.

  4. #4
    The New Legacy!!! darkphoenix21's Avatar
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    It’s been clarified that she wouldn’t be returning to take back the Batwoman mantle but, would be a recurring figure. This season has been pretty good with Javicia as Ryan Wilder but, now that it’s Wallis coming in, I don’t know what to think. She was so great as Nyssa-Vex on Krypton.

    It wouldn’t be a good look at all if they take Javicia Leslie out for Wallis as Kate and she became the series lead. Unless they decide to have two Batwomen but, that wouldn’t make any sense and/or just be as bad. It’s just too much going on.
    Last edited by darkphoenix21; 03-22-2021 at 11:41 AM.

  5. #5
    Not us united costas22's Avatar
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    That's what I was thinking. Now their back's against the wall. With a better actress playing Kate Kane, they might be tempted to make her Batwoman. At the same time, if they do that, they will be accused by the people they cater to of favoring the white actress over the black actress or even having Batwoman be played by a non-LGBT actress. It's a no win situation.

    That's why I am leaning towards Wallis playing an evil version of Kate Kane. Maybe it will be a similar deal to the fake Bruce Wayne they had on the show in the past.

  6. #6
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    I would say that I'm a casual viewer of Batwoman. I find it at par with The Flash lately in terms of quality. I fell out of Supergirl sometime around S4. They all follow the Arrowverse template in terms of storytelling and (melo)drama of The CW variety.

    It is what it is I suppose, but it does become more formulaic after several seasons of it. You know what you're getting when you go watch them.

    Ryan has slowly grown into the role -- they made some effort to show her earn the right to wear the cowl and Luke was most against it for awhile. The series is hardly the alleged "train wreck" some of those fansites claim, the series is just okay -- some gems mixed in with some awful eps. It has embraced the CW cookie-cutter melodrama in the way The Flash and Supergirl have long done, so it's not unique to any of these shows at this point.

    Their alpha villain Alice is probably the best reason to watch the show, Rachel Skarsten always brings it in her scenes and if I stick with the show, it'll largely be to see her.

    Bringing in a recast Kate is a puzzling move, it might have been better to just leave her missing and disappeared. There is now a supposed rival to the mantle of the Batwoman and I'm on the fence on both possibly duking it out to claim the cowl, it seems that would be the most dramatic reason to bring Kate back. Having her simply give Ryan her blessing to continue as Batwoman without protest or objection would be the simplest -- but also the most anti-climactic, and The CW loves its angst and melodrama lol.

    Superman and Lois doesn't really feel like a CW show, and that is a huge advantage. They've largely struck a balance and it doesn't feel like they're trying to copy Smallville or any other Arrowverse show, and I was skeptical about it when it was first announced.

    I'm genuinely impressed with it so far and I'm actually disappointed it's on hiatus for awhile, as Supergirl launches its final season. The Kent sons predictably carry the CW-style angst torch, and it could potentially derail the series if they allow it to take over the tone of the series, but they've given Superman and Lois some ample plot and character meat, deliberately so. There really is something in it for everyone, no matter what age or taste.

    Finally, they've given Superman his due ... as they should have done years ago. Dare I say it: they've put him "over" as a hero in his own right, in ways they've never managed to do for him as a backup pinch hitter in the Arrowverse. It could stream as an HBO Max series if they wished to, its quality so far is on another level.

  7. #7
    Not us united costas22's Avatar
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    I still feel that Wallis was cast to be an evil version of Kate (and maybe she won't be the real Kate like Bruce Wayne wasn't the real Bruce Wayne). Like Katie Cassidy, I think she's more suited to the bad girl roles. In that scenario they would also have no issues over Ryan maintaining the mantle.

    Just to give my own 2 cents about the current state of the Arrowverse as someone who has rejoined the party this past year. As some of my posts from the 16-17 season might attest, I really became jaded with all 4 shows so I stopped watching. In hindsight, I don't regret it because I needed the break, especially where The Flash was concerned. It was (and is) my favorite Arrowverse show but the state of it in season 3 really rubbed me the wrong way. The show never truly recovered, but at least it stopped sabotaging its main character and it actually remembered to lean on some of its own strengths. So as a quick summary for each show:

    - Arrow: Seasons 7 and 8 were IMO pretty good and they helped wash away a number of negatives that derailed the show in seasons 3-6. Too bad that they couldn't resist one last annoying Guggenheim trope until the very end (keeping Laurel dead even though Oliver resurrected EVERYONE else). I did love that it was Amell who Tony Starked during the crossover and gave us the new multiverse though. It was very fitting and a badass ending for the character who began it all.

    - The Flash: Season 6 was a letdown, but 4 and 5 were at least better than 3. The show got back to basics and I actually liked The Thinker as a Big Bad and Nora Allen as a new character. Season 7 has been rocky until now, but there's potential there. As always, this show's true strength is its cast. Grant's acting, Carlos' one liners, Tom constantly coming up with new Wells versions. I don't know what this show will be like if it loses any of them. And yet they renewed it for season 8 even though most of the actors' contracts end with 7.

    - Supergirl: This show became a bit more tolerable in season 4 and I thought Sam Witwer was a brilliant addition to the cast. Then it lost its way again in season 5. Good thing Katie McGrath is still around. My personal Arrowverse crush.

    - LoT: The goofiness of this show has gotten worse and worse. I get that it works for some viewers, but it's tough to buy this show suddenly becoming serious when there's a crossover (and no, randomly throwing Beebo in the mix during Crisis didn't help matters). Some of its virtue signaling can also become annoying (even more so than Supergirl's). But the worst issue I have is the way the showrunners treated Brandon Routh upon his exit. This is one of the actors who, along with Victor Garber and Dominic Purcell, helped put the show on the map when it was starting out and IMO he deserved better. The main positive for me? Mick Rory. That guy is my spirit animal.

    - Batwoman: Haven't watched it, but there truly is a lot of negativity surrounding it. Maybe things would have been better if they put the story and the casting before identity politics.

    - Superman and Lois: Haven't watched it either, except for a few clips online. To be honest, his sons and their angst is one of my biggest turnoffs. At the same time, as harsh as it may sound, I gave up on Tyler's Superman after Crisis. They didn't do him justice when he was on Supergirl, they depowered him for Elseworld and they made him even more secondary in Crisis. Hell, Brandon's Superman completely outshone him and was a Paragon over him. If they have fixed some of these issues on Superman and Lois, I respect that. But it's just too late for me to care. On a final note, I did find it deliciously ironic how the Arrowverse shows have been promoted as more shiny and cheerful than the Snyderverse and yet this show's coloring and tone is like watching Man of Steel's.
    Last edited by costas22; 04-06-2021 at 04:45 AM.

  8. #8
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    I get the cynicism, because I've been there too.

    From watching all the Arrowverse to only sticking to one or two -- and not even live, it's been up and down. At this point, I shut out all the external noise and watch what I want and just skip the rest.

    It's the formulaic nature of the Arrowverse, it gets predictable over time. I was an Arrow guy for most of its run, I felt S7 was its "spiritual" end so to speak. S8 was alright, more of a prologue to Crisis and backdoor pilot for Mia's now-defunct possible series. Crisis was a fitting end for the O.G. hero, Oliver Queen. None of these shows would have seen the light of day without him setting the path. CW trying to rebrand the universe as the "CWverse" is annoying to say the least.

    Flash has been up and down for me. I stick with it as it's the senior show now and I still get a kick out of it now and then. I didn't mind Mirror Monarch and it was (finally) good to see Iris sink her teeth in a plot of her own. Their secondary roster of characters is getting a bit bloated at this point. I have no problem with there being two Caitlins now on the show, they could replicate her a dozen times if they like :P

    Supergirl has been up and down. I actually liked how they did Agent Liberty in S4 and Witwer did slay it in the eps I saw. Still too much CW-style melodrama on SG for my tastes, I think its the regrettable leader in this regard. McGrath can do no wrong, I agree.

    LoT is kind of its own beast, I don't count it as an actual Arrowverse show -- and the show itself sorta acknowledges this when they drop in-show that they missed out on being in crossovers lol.

    Batwoman is a prickly situation. The fandom and critic reaction online has been toxic at times, both from those loyal to the show and those who despise it.

    That sort of stuff soured me on my enjoyment of Arrow and other series previously, and I've tried to ignore it with Batwoman because -- outside of that Twitterverse noise -- Batwoman is honestly no better or worse than any of the other Arrowverse template series currently on-air. A lot of the online vitriol sent its way have very little to do with the series storywise itself ... but with issues or agendas connected to it: the SJW stuff, cancel culture etc. I find it best for me not to dwell on it when I watch shows, as there's a lot of manufactured negativity out there online.

    The treatment of Ruby Rose by elements of the fandom was often brutal and unfair in spite of the fact that, by the end of S1, she had earned the mantle. It took her the whole season to do so, but in the end she was no better or worse than her castmates.

    I was most skeptical about Superman and Lois at first, because of the fear it might slip into tired Arrowverse patterns and Supes' past "jobber" role as a second-stringer in the Arrowverse. For the most part, it seems to be its own series. There are seeds of CW-style issues esp. with the kids' teenage angst stuff, but it hasn't overwhelmed the series yet.

    It's a no-win situation for Superman it seems. For the fans who wanted it to be just like Supergirl, Flash etc in tone will be disappointed that it isn't. For those who wanted it to be just like Snyder's Superman may see it as "too CW". Maybe they're
    trying to be both, I don't know. The reaction from fans and critics is better than I expected -- even from those who long detested jobber Arrowverse Supes. I mostly agree with the balanced course the show has taken so far.

    It's the show other than Flash I'll try to stick with, and I'm not even the biggest Superman fan.

  9. #9
    Not us united costas22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    I get the cynicism, because I've been there too.

    From watching all the Arrowverse to only sticking to one or two -- and not even live, it's been up and down. At this point, I shut out all the external noise and watch what I want and just skip the rest.
    It really gets to be too much after a while. When I stopped watching, I was watching all 4 of them weekly twice in order to be up to date with every detail. And if you remember, towards the end I was just hating on all 4, even though Arrow didn't deserve it during season 5. But that's where my head was at. They all looked so similar, especially in their flaws.

    So a break was much needed. I only started watching again (only The Flash at first) because I wanted to watch Crisis. Then I bingewatched Arrow seasons 6-8 and in recent months I bingewatched Supergirl and LoT seasons 3-5. Turns out that this format makes it a lot easier to follow these shows. Watching every episode one after the other means you won't dwell too much on the negatives. And that's probably why you see me being more lenient towards some of the latest seasons of Arrow, The Flash and Supergirl. I didn't spend a year digesting the good and bad, but a few weeks. And that can shift your perspective a lot. Conversely, one has to wonder how enjoyable some of Marvel's Netflix shows would have been if they were released on a weekly basis...

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    Flash has been up and down for me. I stick with it as it's the senior show now and I still get a kick out of it now and then. I didn't mind Mirror Monarch and it was (finally) good to see Iris sink her teeth in a plot of her own. Their secondary roster of characters is getting a bit bloated at this point. I have no problem with there being two Caitlins now on the show, they could replicate her a dozen times if they like :P

    Supergirl has been up and down. I actually liked how they did Agent Liberty in S4 and Witwer did slay it in the eps I saw. Still too much CW-style melodrama on SG for my tastes, I think its the regrettable leader in this regard. McGrath can do no wrong, I agree.
    Truth be told the female leads of these shows never disappoint. Candice as well.

    I agree regarding The Flash's secondary cast, which is why the Hartley Sawyer mess was actually a blessing in disguise. I don't think he or Sue were needed here. Especially with Chester and Alegra becoming regulars. The Flash universe is loaded with characters. Focus on them.

    Supergirl has been a mixed bag, but I have to give them credit for keeping Kara single even after Mon-El returned in season 3. So there's still melodrama, but at least it doesn't revolve around her. Jon Cryer has also helped give the show a bit more prestige. I still prefer Rosenbaum's Lex of course, but Cryer has done A LOT better than I thought he would.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    LoT is kind of its own beast, I don't count it as an actual Arrowverse show -- and the show itself sorta acknowledges this when they drop in-show that they missed out on being in crossovers lol.
    Honestly, they should be banned from crossovers for life. . There's no way of believing that this show exists in the same universe with the rest, simply on account of how many times these idiots (to quote Mick) have broken the timeline!

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    The treatment of Ruby Rose by elements of the fandom was often brutal and unfair in spite of the fact that, by the end of S1, she had earned the mantle. It took her the whole season to do so, but in the end she was no better or worse than her castmates.
    I never got that, to be honest. From what I saw in Crisis, Ruby was ok. They could have cast someone better (and they did now) to play Kate, but Ruby wasn't exactly horrible. And no one deserves so much online bashing anyway. I said it about Katie Cassidy as well. But that's the nature of the beast, sadly.

    Cast aside, I think Batwoman could do with a better showrunner, IMO. I am not a fan of Caroline Dries and she rarely delivered a compelling Smallville episode. She was the one who turned Shelby into a female just so Lois could throw a snide remark at Clark in Stiletto.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    It's a no-win situation for Superman it seems. For the fans who wanted it to be just like Supergirl, Flash etc in tone will be disappointed that it isn't. For those who wanted it to be just like Snyder's Superman may see it as "too CW". Maybe they're trying to be both, I don't know. The reaction from fans and critics is better than I expected -- even from those who long detested jobber Arrowverse Supes. I mostly agree with the balanced course the show has taken so far.
    It's been a no-win situation for the last 15 years, it seems. Ever since Superman Returns got hammered for carrying on the Donnerverse. Then Snyder delivers a more serious Superman universe and he gets hammered as well. And then Brandon reprises the role in Crisis and people finally praise him for being a great Superman. Tyler's version was Donner-like when he was a guest character but he's more Snyder-like now that he has his own show. It's a mess. I think people realize that the character needs some tweaking, but they are too hesitant to do it.

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