Tom Welling Returns - AS CLARK - For Crisis on Infinite Earths!

[Kal26]

Really glad that season 11 is being considered cannon.

[SVfan87]

Really glad that season 11 is being considered cannon.

Same. I think that's only right. They did name the comic Smallville SEASON 11. And they worked hard to continue the storyline, to reference old episodes and even to make the illustrations resemble the actors. I can't see how it would be appropriate to act like none of that happened. I just hope they will reference something from the comic. Even if it's something small or just one line. I would like it to be clear that we are picking up where we left off, that Clark's (Smallville's Clark) story has been ongoing.


Side thought: this whole thing must be leaving the Crisis creators open to a lot of criticism. I hope they knew what they were getting into when they got Smallville fans involved. I mean I'm on here thinking and talking like I expect to get an all new full hour of smallville and I can't be the only one. Thats the down side to this whole thing. It opens up a lot of expectations and hopes. I hope it doesn't disappoint.

[SVfan87]

So this event I'm assuming establishes that Smallville happened in its own world, on it's own earth. If so, this resolves my 2012 issue with Arrow, the reason I couldn't start watching it: it wasn't the Green Arrow I knew and loved. Or the world I knew and love. So I couldn't jump into it so soon after Smallville ended. But now this makes it ok! Lol. Smallville lives on! And now a part of Arrow verse? Retroactively? Thoughts?

I'm curious too about Kevin Conroy. And ready to hear his voice again. Looking back I'd have to say that animated series and the Superman one (and Captain Planet ☺️) were my intro to heroes on tv as a kid.

[harryandginnyfanatic]

Didn’t season 11 have it’s own crisis?

[jon-el87]

http://www.kryptonsite.com/smallville-season-11-comics-will-be-canon/

We guess since [spoiler warning] Bart Allen died in the comics, that we will not be seeing Kyle Gallner’s Impulse in the crossover.

Well, if they have body doubles show up in existing Smallville costumes (a lá "Icarus"), then there would be someone wearing the Impulse suit. However, it would likely be the Barry Allen from Smallville's universe (whom "Haunted" established to be an existing/future speedster), not Bart Allen.

Could also be a new Dr. Fate, Hawkman and Warrior Angel (Stiletto?) present; as those suits probably exists in a warehouse somewhere.

The bigger question marks would be if characters like Aquaman (who recently had a billion dollar movie) and Stargirl (who has an upcoming DC Universe series) would be allowed or off-limits. Could they get away with having someone wearing Adrianne Palicki's Wonder Woman suit, in the background? "Hourglass" managed to get away with Green Lantern, Batman and Wonder Woman appearances. In "Warrior", Lois and an extra wore Wonder Woman-type suits.

They could use some existing Arrowverse suit, to stand in for Smallville versions (like they did last crossover with the Earth-90 incarnations), of characters who did not appear S1-10 (Michael Holt appears in S11, but it's not like there'd be an existing Smallville suit for him).

My biggest concern is if they'd have a male Atom, when S11 had Jessica Palmer (ergo, the shrinking Atom of Smallville should be female).

[jon-el87]

Didn’t season 11 have it’s own crisis?

DC Comics have one every few years. So, it wouldn't be baseless that another one happens, a few years after another universe destroying event occurs. It would just be true to the source material.

[vantheman77]

Glad Smallville Season 11 comics are canon and I can see SV Clark's role in having experience with the Monitors thus telling his counterparts and the other heroes about them.

[Vergon6]

Glad Smallville Season 11 comics are canon and I can see SV Clark's role in having experience with the Monitors thus telling his counterparts and the other heroes about them.

I know this is an old post but this was a real missed opportunity. ‘The Monitors’ in Smallville Season 11 were more akin to the Anti-Monitor. They could have been revealed to be his disciples. Instead we have Lois and Clark thinking it’s a joke, as if they hadn’t encountered their own Crisis before. I actually have a short story I have been very slowly working on to show an explanation for this and then how Lois & Clark would eventually get involved.

[Dagenspear]

I know this is an old post but this was a real missed opportunity. ‘The Monitors’ in Smallville Season 11 were more akin to the Anti-Monitor. They could have been revealed to be his disciples. Instead we have Lois and Clark thinking it’s a joke, as if they hadn’t encountered their own Crisis before. I actually have a short story I have been very slowly working on to show an explanation for this and then how Lois & Clark would eventually get involved.

That happens, along with more Superman-esque concepts for Smallville Clark, in a redo of the Crisis I posted here:

CW's Crisis On Infinite Earths Fix! - KSiteTV Forums

[jon-el87]

The Smallville wiki has got an article on Earth-167. In fact, a good portion of it is a listing of all the reasons for why Earth-167 couldn't be the actual Smallville universe.

A few things not mentioned in that article:

1) Among the Earths in the Arrowverse multiverse is Earth-N52... which appears to be Prime Earth from the comics. A universe created after the comic book Crisis on Infinite Earths (and a few more Crisises). Now, I didn't pay too much attention, but COIE was seemingly presented as something unpresidented.

2) The Joker of Earth-89 is alive. The Burtonverse Joker died in the first movie. Sure, another could've emerged in the years since, but it seems like a weird thing for the writers to do, for such a small thing.

3) An Ezra Miller Flash exists in this multiverse (implying the existence of the rest of the DCEU). However, in an interview, Walter Hamada states that the DCEU is Earth-1 (in the multiverse), while Robert Pattinson's Batman is set on Earth-2. Okay, so Earth-1 is home to both the mainstream Arrowverse... and the DCEU?

4) Supes of Earth-96 referenced Superman III... one of the films that Superman Returns ignores. And, no, the two can't co-exist. In Superman III Martha is established to be dead, Lois has no son, while Lana's got one named Ricky (full name "Richard White").

5) Adam West's Batman is depicted as Earth-66... while Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman is Earth-76. In 2017, DC Comics published Batman '66 Meets Wonder Woman '77... where the two shows are depicted as existing in the same universe.

Basically, in order to make the Arrowverse crossover work... one has to ignore a mountain of existing canon material. Just to fit these past franchises into their depictions in the crossover. Finally, consider the following (if you absolutely must have Earth-167 as the Earth of Smallville):

6) The post-Crisis Earth-19 used archive footage from the recent Swamp Thing television series. Based on the pre-Crisis Earth-19 depiction on The Flash, the show was clearly not in this universe... pre-Crisis. The post-Crisis Earth-96 Supes has a different crest. The post-Crisis Earth-2 is now home to Stargirl (haven't seen it, but I'm guessing that its universe doesn't line up with the pre-Crisis Earth-2). So, the universes have been altered post-Crisis. Swamp Thing seemingly takes place on a post-Crisis version of an Earth... how do we know that the same doesn't apply to Smallville? Why? because it aired prior to the crossover? So did Swamp Thing. We're never shown the post-Crisis Earth-167. Guggenheim says (he says a lot of things) that Clark and Lois still get their happy ending (that's telling, not showing), but what is their "happy ending"? Specifically that Clark goes back into the closet (watch "Identity", if you don't get what I'm talking about. And then consider Clark's entire character journey on SV. Then the fact that the Arrowverse writers are supposedly "progressives" (FYI, they're not), and what this "happy ending" could be read as, when you factor in the metaphor that "Identity" opens in regard to Clark's character journey), moves back to the farm and has two daughters*? Or is the happy ending just them having children? In which case, the post-Crisis (Earth-167) Clark could've remained Superman for all we know.

* Okay, that aspect I actually liked. A lot of the time, writers seem hell bent to always provide Supes with a son. Now, there are some comic versions that have a daughter, but in adaptations... L&C ends with Clark and Lois getting a son. An earlier episode had a boy who was alleged to be Clark's kid (turns out he wasn't). Superman Returns has Clark have a son. The Arrowverse Earth-38 Supes has one son pre-Crisis, and two post-Crisis. So it's nice to see one version of Lois and Clark who get daughters. Though, given how incredibly uncreative the Arrowverse writers are... it was probably Tom or Erica who suggested it on-set, rather than an idea of the writers.

[Dagenspear]

The Smallville wiki has got an article on Earth-167. In fact, a good portion of it is a listing of all the reasons for why Earth-167 couldn't be the actual Smallville universe.

A few things not mentioned in that article:

1) Among the Earths in the Arrowverse multiverse is Earth-N52... which appears to be Prime Earth from the comics. A universe created after the comic book Crisis on Infinite Earths (and a few more Crisises). Now, I didn't pay too much attention, but COIE was seemingly presented as something unpresidented.

2) The Joker of Earth-89 is alive. The Burtonverse Joker died in the first movie. Sure, another could've emerged in the years since, but it seems like a weird thing for the writers to do, for such a small thing.

3) An Ezra Miller Flash exists in this multiverse (implying the existence of the rest of the DCEU). However, in an interview, Walter Hamada states that the DCEU is Earth-1 (in the multiverse), while Robert Pattinson's Batman is set on Earth-2. Okay, so Earth-1 is home to both the mainstream Arrowverse... and the DCEU?

4) Supes of Earth-96 referenced Superman III... one of the films that Superman Returns ignores. And, no, the two can't co-exist. In Superman III Martha is established to be dead, Lois has no son, while Lana's got one named Ricky (full name "Richard White").

5) Adam West's Batman is depicted as Earth-66... while Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman is Earth-76. In 2017, DC Comics published Batman '66 Meets Wonder Woman '77... where the two shows are depicted as existing in the same universe.

Basically, in order to make the Arrowverse crossover work... one has to ignore a mountain of existing canon material. Just to fit these past franchises into their depictions in the crossover. Finally, consider the following (if you absolutely must have Earth-167 as the Earth of Smallville):

6) The post-Crisis Earth-19 used archive footage from the recent Swamp Thing television series. Based on the pre-Crisis Earth-19 depiction on The Flash, the show was clearly not in this universe... pre-Crisis. The post-Crisis Earth-96 Supes has a different crest. The post-Crisis Earth-2 is now home to Stargirl (haven't seen it, but I'm guessing that its universe doesn't line up with the pre-Crisis Earth-2). So, the universes have been altered post-Crisis. Swamp Thing seemingly takes place on a post-Crisis version of an Earth... how do we know that the same doesn't apply to Smallville? Why? because it aired prior to the crossover? So did Swamp Thing. We're never shown the post-Crisis Earth-167. Guggenheim says (he says a lot of things) that Clark and Lois still get their happy ending (that's telling, not showing), but what is their "happy ending"? Specifically that Clark goes back into the closet (watch "Identity", if you don't get what I'm talking about. And then consider Clark's entire character journey on SV. Then the fact that the Arrowverse writers are supposedly "progressives" (FYI, they're not), and what this "happy ending" could be read as, when you factor in the metaphor that "Identity" opens in regard to Clark's character journey), moves back to the farm and has two daughters*? Or is the happy ending just them having children? In which case, the post-Crisis (Earth-167) Clark could've remained Superman for all we know.

* Okay, that aspect I actually liked. A lot of the time, writers seem hell bent to always provide Supes with a son. Now, there are some comic versions that have a daughter, but in adaptations... L&C ends with Clark and Lois getting a son. An earlier episode had a boy who was alleged to be Clark's kid (turns out he wasn't). Superman Returns has Clark have a son. The Arrowverse Earth-38 Supes has one son pre-Crisis, and two post-Crisis. So it's nice to see one version of Lois and Clark who get daughters. Though, given how incredibly uncreative the Arrowverse writers are... it was probably Tom or Erica who suggested it on-set, rather than an idea of the writers.

In a redo for this I posted, this was altered:

CW's Crisis On Infinite Earths Fix! - KSiteTV Forums

[jon-el87]

You know what I just realized? If we accept (which I don't) Earth-167 as Smallville, Earth-96 as Superman Returns, Earth-89 as the Burtonverse, Earth-66 as Adam West's Batman, Earth-76 as Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman, Earth-203 as Birds of Prey, an unnamed universe (appearing in some tie-in comic) as the Donnerverse... it means that the Arrowverse's Crisis on Infinite Earths single-handely killed off all the characters from those movies and television shows.

Before anyone says "but a new multiverse was created", it doesn't matter. They're dead. The post-Crisis versions are (apart from Earth-96 Supes) people that we've never even seen (might not even look like the pre-Crisis versions). We know nothing about their history. They could've had radically different lives. Maybe Selina Kyle on post-Crisis Earth-203 was never killed (and married Bruce Wayne), and Helena Kyle was raised as "Helena Wayne". We've never seen their adventures. They're not the incarnations that we've grown attached to over the years. The ones that we learned to care about are now... dead.