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  1. #1
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    Mericle Exits, Guggenheim to Consult: Schwartz New Arrow Shot-Caller

    http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-ge...for-season-7//

    While Schwartz is the one who said she would've devoted an entire episode to the reception (11 minutes was bad enough, IMO), not only is there a chance she was saying it jest, but also she has written a number of my favorite episodes over the years and has done episodes liked by shippers and non-shippers, and to be honest, looking at her writing credits for Arrow, she's done far more non-shipper episodes. Chief among them for me is "Seeing Red", and she was the one who did the story behind "Al Sah-Him".

    So I'm going to take a wait and see approach.
    Last edited by KSiteTV; 04-17-2018 at 04:32 PM. Reason: GATV Link please

  2. #2
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    The questions are "Is it too little, too late?" and "How much damage can they do to take Arrow down with them before they actually leave?" I Swear if they kill off Black Siren before season's end out of revenge against cannon/non shipper fans, I'll riot. Peeps are welcome and any donations for torches and pitch forks are welcome, lol

  3. #3
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    A change at the helm for Arrow was in order and is, many fans would say, overdue. Depends if Schwartz is a spear-carrier for the old order's vision re: S3 to now, on several fronts like character, story, theme etc., or if she feels that after six years, she is now willing to take some creative risks (translation: choices that aren't afraid to disrupt the status quo of this or that fandom in the Arrow audience). I have to believe that a new showrunner has to be thinking about the series' endgame at this point, and what they'll need to do to stick the landing.

    I think I'll be cautiously optimistic and see how the first 2 or 3 eps of S7 play out. If they go back to a similar team dynamic with a bloated roster, with the focus on everyone but Oliver and his mission ... then we'd know little will change. The melodrama ain't going anywhere (we're talking about a Berlanti production after all), but what they choose to focus on, the season's tone, etc. will be what we need to watch going forward.

    This reminds me of the showrunner change between S7 and S8 of Smallville. SV as a series did change from S8 on, for better or worse, depending on who you ask. It became more of a superhero show and less focused on the on-going minutiae of Clark's relationships with various characters esp. Lana. The melodrama didn't go away entirely, but it became ... less important, in the grand scheme of things, while the necessary work of getting Clark's butt into gear (after seven years) to becoming Superman was more of a priority. Some changes worked, others not so much. I'd have to agree that it did become a "different" show under new management.

  4. #4
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    She co-wrote Canary Cry and Underneath along with Mericle, didn't she? Nope. Still not interested. This show needs fresh writers and fresh ideas. Not people who have contributed to its downfall over the past 3 years.
    Last edited by costas22; 04-17-2018 at 04:42 PM.

  5. #5
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    Looking through her credits now.

    She also wrote "Checkmate"(!), which was one of the best eps. of S5 and must count among one of the series' best too, as well as a few of the Ra's/LOA themed eps over the seasons such as "The Climb"(!!!) and this season's "The Thanatos Guild". And some of the cool ARGUS eps with Diggle and Lyla back in S2 apparently. (I know, in contrast to some of the more shippery ones she's done lol).

    For me, it depends if she'll merely follow WM and MG's playbook (and MG is still a consultant -- how much influence he'd have in a reduced capacity is another question) or if she'll actually be a shot-caller and start doing her own thing. Maybe. A change was in order, it should have been in S6 -- which in hindsight, now looks to be a transitional passing-the-torch season.

  6. #6
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    I wonder if MG and Wendy's departure was their decision or if Berlanti and the studio decided to subtly fire them after Arrow's ratings plight over the past 2 years. I realize that all shows lose viewers after a while, but in Arrow's case it's been inexcusable, IMO. Arrow started to lose viewers during the second half of Season 4 (after the poorly handled paralysis storyline) and was barely making 2 million viewers at the end of the season. And now, just 2 years later, the show has lost half of that already shrunken audience! IMO, they've pissed off their audience for far too long.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    Looking through her credits now.

    She also wrote "Checkmate"(!), which was one of the best eps. of S5 and must count among one of the series' best too, as well as a few of the Ra's/LOA themed eps over the seasons such as "The Climb"(!!!) and this season's "The Thanatos Guild". And some of the cool ARGUS eps with Diggle and Lyla back in S2 apparently. (I know, in contrast to some of the more shippery ones she's done lol).

    For me, it depends if she'll merely follow WM and MG's playbook (and MG is still a consultant -- how much influence he'd have in a reduced capacity is another question) or if she'll actually be a shot-caller and start doing her own thing. Maybe. A change was in order, it should have been in S6 -- which in hindsight, now looks to be a transitional passing-the-torch season.
    Fair enough. I guess she can get it done if she has a decent co-writer. But trusting her to lead this show's direction? Nah. I just think that Arrow's long term writers (Wendy, Beth, Keto, Oscar...) are right now reprentative of the show's long term issues and I don't think they are capable of fixing them. Beth in particular has collaborated with Wendy so much, that I can't help but feel that putting her in charge is a way to ensure that the ship remains on its current creative course. She's not anti-Olicity/Felicity, that much is certain!

    It's interesting that you brought up Smallville before Season 8, PL, because Arrow right now reminds me a lot of Smallville of that time. New showrunner(s), declining ratings and the lead actor on the last year of his contract. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people assumed Arrow would end next year. And it really should end next year. But I wouldn't bet on it. The CW is greedy enough that I can easily imagine them offering Stephen and Emily new contracts to keep the show going beyond Season 7.

    To be honest, if there was some kind of concrete announcement that the show will end next year, I would consider catching up on season 6 and following season 7. Every now and then, I have an itch to find out what's been going on (especially with the whole Civil War stuff). But it will probably wind up like Smallville and Supernatural and reach the 10 season mark. Even if Amell leaves, they could always make Diggle, Roy or William the new Green Arrow and keep the show going with Felicity as the real protagonist.

  7. #7
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    Even if Amell leaves, they could always make Diggle, Roy or William the new Green Arrow and keep the show going with Felicity as the real protagonist.
    No, they will introduce a man from lower social class, named Oliver Loxley, inspired by Oliver Queen to carry on his Robin Hood Green Arrow's legacy. Btw. there was only one show that killed off their main protagonist and introduced another character to take his place in a way that it made sense ("Robin of Sherwood"). It's also the only show that connected two versions of the legend.

    I really don't know how to feel about the announcement. It might be simply too late. Beth Schwartz wrote some good episodes, but the same can be said about MG and Wendy ("Broken Dolls" and "Draw Back Your Bow" are among my favorites, but it doesn't change the fact that the show went off the rails under the direction of those two).

    The difference between SPN and "Arrow" is that even beyond the best seasons 1-5 ("Arrow" had merely two really solid ones!) SPN still has an outstanding procudural episodes, even when the main plot failed. "Arrow" is scared about including procedural episodes (because it would require doing some actual writing). And how long the city can be under the threat about being destroyed, because something has a personal conflict with Oliver? Ollie, just move out from Star to Death Valley or anther deserted island and the city is safe. Forever.

  8. #8
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    It would be smart if they already did plan for an endgame. Oliver largely completed his journey after 5 years, hence their dipping into themes -- identity, trust, etc -- they've covered before. Shows like Arrow, Flash only have so much turf to cover before they get formulaic ... and they should take their cue from SV on the pitfalls of dragging it out too long. Seven seasons was my ballpark for Arrow and eight is pushing it.

    SA may want the show to continue as long as SV or SPN but I think his body will tell him otherwise, long before that. Sure the network will be greedy and foolish enough to try a rebrand, with Diggle or Roy or some nutty ensemble to keep it going, but for many fans, no Oliver would mark the end of the series ... regardless of what the network does. It's like SV post-S7 for me. The show "ended" with Lex's departure for those who signed up on the stuff of legends rivalry -- only to be disappointed that Clark was nowhere near ready to claim his destiny when their o.g. Lex left. I still watched for Clark to achieve the endgame, but not with the same investment. Many viewers checked out in those last seasons before he put on the S-shield.

    I don't follow SPN, but I've heard it was treading water for about three seasons during its run until it found its second wind. Arrow won't have that luxury due to the ratings, barring Berlanti himself flexing some personal political capital with the network (he makes them a lot of money) to keep it going past its best before date and I think he'd only play that card with Flash.

    The titular lead of Arrow leaving would end the show. My guess: SA will make the decision for them. It would be ... something .... else without him and frankly no one else could front the show.

  9. #9
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    My impression of Guggie, from various things he's said about fans in interviews, is that he doesn't take criticism well. So, I could theorize that if you are in "his" writers room, it may be hard to offer constructive feedback about a storyline or about how a character has been written to react in a situation (code for "OOC" or "writing character to plot"!). I guess I'm saying I could image him being an authoritarian type who doesn't appreciate differing viewpoints and perhaps his philosophy is "I'm right, you're an idiot and it's my way or the highway." If this is true, then it's possible that some things that various critics and fans have pointed out as Arrow weaknesses are things that some of the writers, including Beth Schwartz, also have felt were problematic. In which case, maybe Beth will be able to correct some of the problems.

    Of course, it's entirely possible that for various reasons Beth will just continue on with what we've seen under the reign of the Guggster.

    At this point it's kind of hard to know, when various writers have tweeted or spoken out about Arrow stuff (for instance, Beth's recent tweet that she could've written a whole episode about Olicity),if what we are hearing is coming from: 1) a hostage, or 2) a victim of Stockholm syndrome, or 3) a willing participant, or 4) a true believer.

    Hopefully for the sake of Arrow fans, Beth falls into the category of #1

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