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Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "Nevertheless, She Persisted?"

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  • #31
    For who aren't in the know, all the comic issues I've read that stated that Supergirl was stronger than superman gave the following logical explanation:

    1) Kara is actually much older than Kal-El, and grew up in a heavy gravity-dense planet whereas Kal-El did not. This honed the female Kryptonain's natural strength... whereas Kal-el grew up on Earth, which isn't as gravity-dense. She learned to walk and skip and jump on a planet with denser gravity. Clark was an infant who couldn't even hold up his head with his neck yet.

    2) Less mental blocks since she wasn't raised to fear herself or what she's capable of. Clark on the other hand, definitely have tons of mental blocks due to fears/nightmares of accidentally hurting somebody close to him. The 'holding back' of his powers is deeply ingrained into his subconscious, so deeply that even while under the mind control of dastardly villains, he'll pull his punches.
    Kara has none of this. When she takes a swing, her first instinct is to use her full strength. It's unlikely that she'll hurt a civilian or weaker superhuman this way, as Kryptonians have preternaturally fast reflexes and speed (she'd be able to change the velocity of her attack nigh-instantaneously), but her opening punch against an empowered opponent will be much more devastating than an opening punch from Superman.

    3)This may be specific to that 00's continuity. Kara's father created her spacecraft to keep her in suspended animation AND to bombard her with solar radiation, not unlike that of a yellow sun. Kal, for most of his life, only absorbed solar radiation from a source millions of miles away, after it had passed through the atmosphere. Kara had a direct line to a carefully designed solar radiation treatment. She's supercharged, if you'll pardon the play on words. Another factor to consider is that while Kal may have absorbed a greater amount of sunlight over a longer period of time, he frequently depletes those reserves. Kara, being newer to the scene, still has more 'gas in the tank', as it were.

    4) In some continuities (mainly during the 70's to 80's) it was mandatory for all Kryptonian to train in Kryptonian Martial arts once they reached a certain age, in the event that they could be recruited into the military quickly without too much training in times of war. Kara got that training, while Kal-El did not. As an result Kara was far more experienced in combat situations when Kal-El wasn't trained in combat and merely depended on his strength to get by. Of course some stories tend to nerf this by having Superman train with Batman, etc.

    I would list all comic issues where they talked about this, but to be honest it would take me too long to google and hunt down all the exact comic issues... especially because they're scattered across different continuities from different time periods (80's, 90's, etc). So I'm not gonna bother.

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    • #32
      ^Thanks for this! I had a spell reading Peter David's run on Supergirl ('Earth Angel' era, pre-2003), which I did enjoy. Sterling Gates' recent run a few years ago is also pretty good.

      In the comics world, I knew they've had more than a few occasions where it's spelled out how and why Supergirl would actually best Superman in battle. There is canon to back it up. In terms of Kryptonian training, she'd have an edge as well as in "battery" power as you described, if the show were to apply this to SG's Kara.

      The series should probably mention stuff like this, even as a throwaway line.

      In terms of experience in the field, the edge would arguably to go to Clark as he's been an actual superhero longer, tested in battle, etc., and this is where probably some Supes fans get the notion that he should win. It's not really a big issue with me, the spotlight rightly belongs to Kara. Clark is only a supporting character in this world. And as a DC animated fans, I'm used to seeing Superman appear less powerful than he should be on JL/JLU.

      I guess the lingering concern for me re: Superman it is that using Supes too frequently would dilute his uniqueness and he'd just be another meta on-call instead of the legendary Man of Steel. Won't be a huge problem if they don't use him too often -- but I think their ready access to him makes it too tempting to use Superman more and more cavalierly (and less responsibly).

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      • #33
        Aurora Moon now that you mention it I do remember some mention of it. Particularly the solar super charge but if I remember correctly that was because her pod orbited the sun for two decades. Also SG is supposedly more resistant to Kryptonite

        Still its hard to believe. In the 90s cartoon, Superman beats Supergirl half to death. Even that DC movie Apocalypse had supermen letting Supergirl beat on him.

        Still I can think of a few ways SG could beat Superman.
        1. SG kneeling before Superman. Kinda passive but the real Zod would never kneel before him. So I'm hoping it will shock superman. Extremely High risk though.
        2. A Super kick in the supes' family jewels would probably lay him out flat.
        3. Many others...

        The more I think about it Mon'el leaving to lead his people would have been the better call. I mean Mon'el is on a journey too. from arrogant prince to responsible King. Thanks to Kara he chooses to be better. Of course he asks Kara to join but Kara too has responsibilities with her people.

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        • #34
          Why aren't there more posters uncomfortable with Kara sanctioning mass murder and genocide ?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Mbruno
            Why aren't there more posters uncomfortable with Kara sanctioning mass murder and genocide ?
            probably because she isn't sanctioning mass murder, she was only gonna use the lead bomb as a last resort to chase all the damixates off the planet? She didn't kill off the entire daxamite race.... only Rhea.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Mbruno
              Why aren't there more posters uncomfortable with Kara sanctioning mass murder and genocide ?
              In essence, because she isn't Superman. Supergirl as a character, mostly as of late in the comics, has been very different from Superman, and was even a Red Lantern briefly. Her killing, or being more willing to go there isn't as out of character as it would be for Clark.

              Though, to go back to the whole who is stronger thing:

              Superman consistently gets written as stronger. In the odd stories where Supergirl has been said to be stronger, it's quickly "clarified" within issues. Supergirl seems stronger because Superman holds back, but he could take her if he needed to. Or they say she might be stronger, but in the same story gets handled by Wonder Woman, and can't fight off the Amazons on her own. Essentially, they say she is, but treat her as if she is not. At the end of the day, they still call Superman to do all the "heavy" lifting, and overcome whatever the obstacle is, while simultaneously saying Supergirl could just as easily, if not more easily, do the same thing.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by HalJordan4184
                Superman consistently gets written as stronger. In the odd stories where Supergirl has been said to be stronger, it's quickly "clarified" within issues. Supergirl seems stronger because Superman holds back, but he could take her if he needed to. Or they say she might be stronger, but in the same story gets handled by Wonder Woman, and can't fight off the Amazons on her own. Essentially, they say she is, but treat her as if she is not. At the end of the day, they still call Superman to do all the "heavy" lifting, and overcome whatever the obstacle is, while simultaneously saying Supergirl could just as easily, if not more easily, do the same thing.
                I can't help but wonder if that could be because of human bias (and possibly sexism). It's one thing to say that Supergirl is stronger, but some people might not be comfortable with actually seeing that in action. Especially all the Superman fanboys who wants Superman to be the strongest person on Earth no matter what happens. Not to mention the fact that while Superman is actually an alien, he looks human and acts human enough that human men would easily project themselves into him.
                So on earth the common belief is that men are just naturally stronger than women are, with a few exceptions out there. So they project that belief onto the Kryptonians under the assumption that Kryptionians are just like human beings because they look so much like us on the outside. So it would upset that belief to learn that on Krypton it was somewhat different than it was on Earth, and it would also uspet Superman fanboys if it turned out that Supergirl was really the strongest one out of the two after all.

                So rather than upset the status quo with which the fanboys were comfortable with, they show that while Supergirl had the possibility to be the strongest one, she was hampered down by her inexperience, etc.

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                • #38
                  I felt the season ended strongly. Personally, I feel Lena Luthor will be an excellent series regular. Kara and Lena's scenes were some of the best parts of season 2. Season 3 will be the best yet.

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                  • #39
                    Put the last 2 episodes of the 2nd season with the 1st 2 episodes and you have a Superman/ Supergirl team-up movie.

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                    • #40
                      I've just rewatched the finale for the first time since it aired.

                      Something occurred to me watching this time. When Clark awakens in the Fortress he asks Kara "what happened?". But then later he says he was at full strength when fighting her. But how does he know if he doesn't even know what happened? Or does he just mean how did he get knocked out? Cause he then says he thinks he was fighting Zod. More I see that line of "I was at full strength and you beat me". The more I roll my eyes they just really didn't need to even go there. The way it played out ambiguity would have been better. But...

                      How I think they should have done the fight

                      Now I've made my feelings known elsewhere on the execution of Supergirl vs Superman many times and I always said my problem was with the dialogue that followed. They really could have left the silver K aspect vague. Superman could have not known that the K weakened him but he could have said because the world saw Supergirl beat Superman that means in the fight with Rhea Supergirl represents Earth as its Champion. That would have been much better than what we got. But I can't help thinking there was a much better way to do it than even that while also keeping up with the arc between Superman and Jonn in those first two episodes.

                      Now had Alex and the DEO intervened using Kryptonite. Ending the battle as a stalemate using Green K would have served a great purpose. It would have shown that Jonn had kept back at least one piece of Kryptonite and it would have shown Clark he was wrong to take away all the Kryptonite. Having Clark realise he was right to take it away from the DEO but that he should have also entrusted Jonn with it would have been a great end to that arc between the two. Even though Jonn had given Clark all the green K at the end of the second episode I still feel Clark needed to learn that you have to trust certain people with it as he could go bad due to different colours of Kryptonite any day.

                      You then could have followed this with Clark and Kara talking about how tough each other was and that Kara has to fight Rhea because this is her fight.

                      Final Thoughts

                      I will say this though, watching it this time it did seem to be over much quicker than I remembered and when Clark says to Mon El that Kara is the Champion of Earth and she just defeated him. It did feel more throwaway than I previously remembered. More like Rhea saw Kara beat him so she has to take the fight and be Earth's Champion.

                      That Superman vs Daxamite moment later is one of the best live action Superman moments of all-time IMO. So despite my thoughts on the fight and the way it played out rewatching this time I was able to enjoy the other Superman/Clark moments than on my initial viewing.
                      Last edited by Stebob1984; 08-26-2017, 10:47 PM.

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