Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "Brotherhood?"

[Raissa]

When I talked about Lance not being long, I meant in regards to the mid-season finale rather than the grave scene from the premiere. Darhk doesn't strike me as being a very patient evil overlord...

LOL. That does make more sense.

[costas22]

The Return likely would have happened in 2009. (During Oliver's third year away rather than after his third year away. 1st year 2007-2008, 2nd 2008-2009, 3rd 2009-2010). Still, no matter how much one might round it up, the longest Andy could have been dead was six years.

Now I have to pretend that Diggle and Oliver get their sixes and eights mixed up. Maybe it's too dark in the lair to read it clearly.

I think "The Return" aired in 2015? And since the flashbacks (Oliver's, anyway) supposedly take place exactly 5 years before, the events of that episode must have happened in 2010. The other reason why I think The Return happened in 2010 is the fact that Felicity is working at QC at the time, whereas her 2009 flashbacks in "The Secret Origin of Felicity Smoak" showed her as a college student. But then again, Felicity's career course is another topic that doesn't add up on this show, no matter how you slice it.

Anyway, the 2009 or 2010 debate is a minor one. Placing Andy's death 8 years ago is the real headscratcher. And it's not like the writers of this episode are new to the show.

[BkWurm1]

I think "The Return" aired in 2015? And since the flashbacks (Oliver's, anyway) supposedly take place exactly 5 years before, the events of that episode must have happened in 2010. The other reason why I think The Return happened in 2010 is the fact that Felicity is working at QC at the time, whereas her 2009 flashbacks in "The Secret Origin of Felicity Smoak" showed her as a college student. But then again, Felicity's career course is another topic that doesn't add up on this show, no matter how you slice it.

Anyway, the 2009 or 2010 debate is a minor one. Placing Andy's death 8 years ago is the real headscratcher. And it's not like the writers of this episode are new to the show.

They definitely messed up with the ten year time line but while present day stuff almost always follows a real time timeline, the flash backs don't. Like right now, the time between Oliver "killing" Antonia, proving it, getting confronted when his computer was found, working with Constantine, showing the secret tunnel to Reiter, taking a crew of workers to search the bay, killing Vlad, whipping that dude and telling Antionia that her brother was dead didn't happen over the course of 5 or six weeks. I don't think even 5 or 6 days have gone by.

Oliver's time in Hong Kong and before on the island similarly ran on a different timeline, so that what happens in the Flashbacks would almost never take place exactly five years before the events of the episode. I'm not sure season one and season two even took up an entire year.

Felicity actually graduated IN 2009 so while we saw her FB episode to 2009, there was no reason to think it was happening in the fall of 2009 like when the episode aired. To fit the timeline of The Return, she could have graduated in May and then be working at QC anytime after in time for Oliver to overhear her on The Return.

So while there is a good argument for 2009 being the right year that Andy died (and thus able to still be alive in The Return) there is just nothing but a mess if they keep insisting he died 8 years ago.

Edited to add: The timeline bugged me enough that I sent MG a Tumblr comment about it. Nothing to be done about the past but going forward I hope they tweak it.

[Amarice]

I do have to wonder who taught Ray how to fight.

I'm going with the cockroaches.

Ants maybe?

Quite good Diggle-centric stuff. David Ramsey's performance was definietely one of the strongest parts of the episode. Liked also Lyla's cameo, her firm support she gives her husband. And the mention of Dig's sister-in-law and nephew (hey, they still exist in the universe!).

As some of you did already notice - the note about the meeting it docks left by Darkh on the table was definietely left on purpose, ergo - I'm really, really worried that Lance is going to get killed in 4x09. Darhk's creepy simile said everything. Quentin, you are doomed.

As for the action scenes... mixed feelings - the one in the docks somehow didn't impress me much, the one it the Ghosts's base was much better. Liked the sequence with Black Canary taking out five or six thugs and Speedy's duel with Andy - one of the longest lasting fights in the show, but when it comes to Ollie... Really, as Haggard01, at this point I don't believe that we will ever see him as badass as the Arrow was in season 1&2. :< I was wondering if he will use that bow to shot any arrow at all. He again had his ass kicked and had to be saved by Dig two times. If his fighting skills were on the same level in season 1, he would end up dead before getting to the fourth episode.

Good for the show to remember that Malcolm exists, I agree. Pairing stuff reduced to minimum, and surprise, surprise, thanks to it I didn't find Felicity annoying. I liked her scenes with Ray - mild setting for LOT, but it makes sense that she was trying to convice him to come back to lead the company. Most of the characters' interactions were done at decent level. I liked Dig's and Laurel's sceness, and the moments where Oliver's belief in the family were confronted with John's views that some things are unaceptable and unforgiveable. They never saw eye to eye when it came to that matter. My only complaint is that some of dialogues didn't quite flow smoothly, at least to my ears. Maybe because the trope of the sibiling returning from the grave after five/six/eight years/several hours* wears a bit thin after being repeated fourth time.

Flashback again nothing special, but I expect quite angsty stuff when Ollie will need to confess that it was him who in fact killed Taiana's brother.

Damien's meeting with Oliver was interesting, and Oliver's speech at the end challenging Damien was something I enjoyed since it set the stage for the mid-season finale. Now, one thing about Oliver's speech: I can't help but feel he may have tipped his hand with that. Its very similar to his 'Green Arrow' speech, and Damien is a very smart and observant man...

I also liked their meeting. And indeed, that look of Damien's face clearly indicates that he starts to put two to two together. He just awaits till LOT stuff is going to be out of the way to take care of the business.

[/B]Ollie's "hippie-crunchy" scheme to reclaim Starling Bay is not only in line with his saving the city mission, but it's the sort of cause that is in the spirit of the comics Oliver/GA. Kudos to them, at least with this campaign plank, for not forgetting about such defining elements in his personality. The wisdom in antagonizing a villain that is so clearly beyond the team's present expertise is another issue.

Seems that I'm going to quote almost everyone in my post. I liked this scene/plan too. A very nice nod to comic Oliver indeed!

*choose accordingly

[evaba]

I've enjoyed reading your reviews and your musings on the Andy conundrum. The "Arrow" writers would certainly benefit from having a continuity Bible, the way they keep messing around with pretty vital facts, such as how long people have been dead. But then again, few people die for real in the "Arrow" universe, so maybe they just don't care!

I hope @BkWurm will be pleased to know that there is at least one thing we agree on, and that is the superfluity of the beige flashback woman with the bad Russian accent! When I first saw pics of Elysia Rotaru in full make-up I thought she was gorgeous, and I was excited to see Oliver having another flashback romance. However, there is very little tension or rapport between her character and Oliver, and Rotaru is not a very good actress even by CW standards. TBH the flashback story just seems to meander and drag along, much like last year's, and there isn't much sense of progress and purpose behind the flashback happenings.

However, the present-day action was very enjoyable and David Ramsey did a stellar job portraying Diggle in this episode. Fans have been praising the stunts and the fight sequences, but the thing that surprised me was that the emotional/dramatic scenes were so good in this episode. Thea had some good scenes, and Diggle's/David's emotional scenes were very well done as well. Of course, David Ramsey got to work with a good script, that focused on his own personal drama, but to me it seems that Bamford brought out something in DR's acting that was really raw and visceral. I also liked the Laurel/Diggle scene: there was a natural flow and an understated mutual understanding and friendship in this scene that was really nice to see.

We also got a quick visit from Malcolm. Malcolm is IMHO still a prime candidate for the "Worst Father of the Year" award. If "Arrow" hadn't already gone so far into the supernatural/fantastical, I would have laughed out loud when he came up with the suggestion that Thea's bloodthirst could be neutralized by having her kill some paedophile who apparently had escaped from being sentenced numerous times! It just seemed so ludicrous to me that the current Ra's al Ghul would fly all the way to Star city and pick out some local pervert that his daughter could kill in order to quench her bloodthirst. That whole scenario was a bit too macabre for my tastes TBH.

It was also nice to see Ray again in this episode, although HIS motivation for leaving the direction of Palmer Tech in Felicity's hands was as flimsy as Sara's motivation for leaving Star city. I understand the writers' need to ship both Sara and Ray over to the LoT universe, but I still think their departures were a bit rushed and poorly motivated.

Overall this was an enjoyable episode, and nowadays I guess one should be grateful when an "Arrow" ep is entertaining rather than aggravating!

[Quark]

Meh episode. Better than last weeks though. I'm not sure what we have more of. Characters coming back from the dead, or family members being evil. It's getting rather repetitive.

David Ramsey was great this episode. Especially liked his scene with Laurel who I think he has a much better rapport with than Felicity. Speaking of her, the line about bingo was rather amusing.

Damien seems like quite a weak villain. He makes sacrifices to some thing to get his powers and it seems the only way people obey his wishes is from some pill. Take that away from him and your just left with some angry, white-haired dude. At least with the other main villains we've had there was a natural skill that they possessed...

The only thing I'm liking about these flashbacks is Reiter. I'm not even sure I'm following what is going on though. Who is this Vlad guy? Is he the guy that Oliver killed last episode?

[cosmicbimbo]

The only thing I'm liking about these flashbacks is Reiter. I'm not even sure I'm following what is going on though. Who is this Vlad guy? Is he the guy that Oliver killed last episode?

Yes.