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  • #61
    Originally posted by costas22
    - Just an observation. Imagine if there was a show about a female hero which: had more male major characters than female, constantly wrote the female hero poorly to prop her boyfriend, had the female hero (who was an expert fighter at the start of the series) re-learn how to fight by her boyfriend and had the female hero's boyfriend assume her special abilities. That show would have been trashed for its "sexism". Not accusing Iron Fist of anything, mind you (although I do resent that the titular character is written so weakly, regardess of whether a male or a female character gets elevated at his expense). Just pointing out the double standards.
    The sad thing is, I don't think they did this on purpose. It was completely unintentional. The way the story seems to be written... I think they really tried to make Danny Rand sympathetic as much as possible while making Ward and his family the evil asses who were ruining Danny's life.
    But I think they quickly realized that despite their attempts to make Danny seem like a well-meaning hero, he just came off....*sucks in breath* all wrong.

    Also, It doesn't help that most of the cast hadn't any experience in martial arts at all. Finn Jones, who plays Danny Rand, even admitted that they had to be coached by an martial arts expert and practice for a few hours before coming on set every day. So that's why he seems like such a novice when he fights in all of his scenes.

    I think most people would have forgiven Danny Rand for being such a entitled dumb-ass, if he actually did look like he knew what he was doing. That way it would had seemed like he was simply full of himself because he was such a highly skilled combatant who had never lost a fight. There'd be some justification there for why he was the way he is. like, yeah he talks a big game but it seems like he can back it up. That sort of thing.

    I think that's what the writers were going for originally... the story of this man who had never lost a fight, was fed this line about how he was the one who would bring down the hand, etc. And so his ego swells, and he runs off to new York to take down the hand. only, he has a few humbling experiences that brings him down a few pegs and this helps make him human.
    He would've been this sympathetic jerk with a heart of gold.

    But, because Finn Jones had zero experience in combat scenes and in martial arts...? Danny Rand just came off as a total buffoon with an overly inflated ego. He's like a little kid who took only a few martial arts classes, and then suddenly he thinks he's a hot shot who can take down everyone. So as an result his speeches about how he's the mighty iron fist rings a little hollow.

    I guess this is a good lesson to every casting director out there... if you want to make a TV show or movie revolving around martial arts? The actors MUST know martial arts and have trained in it for some years!
    Last edited by Aurora Moon; 09-09-2018, 11:06 PM.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by darkphoenix21
      One thing is for sure, they should go ahead with a Misty/Colleen team up miniseries. Misty’s purpose this season seemed to revolve around her convincing Colleen to partner up. They’ve obviously put that out in the ether so, why not have a 3-4 episode miniseries revolved around a crime unrelated to Luke or Danny. It could even be set within the 4 month time lapse of the season finale.
      Speaking of, there were times in this season where it felt like Misty was doing or saying what Claire Temple normally would have if Rosario Dawson had stuck around. Obviously Colleen and Misty have a history of their own in the comics, but I wonder if Rosario's departure changed the showrunners' plans and forced them to include Misty Knight in this season.

      Whatever the case, the team up was indeed very fun and I hope we see more of it. Either as its own miniseries or as part of season 3 of Luke Cage or Iron Fist.

      Originally posted by Aurora Moon
      The sad thing is, I don't think they did this on purpose. It was completely unintentional. The way the story seems to be written... I think they really tried to make Danny Rand sympathetic as much as possible while making Ward and his family the evil asses who were ruining Danny's life.
      But I think they quickly realized that despite their attempts to make Danny seem like a well-meaning hero, he just came off....*sucks in breath* all wrong.

      Also, It doesn't help that most of the cast hadn't any experience in martial arts at all. Finn Jones, who plays Danny Rand, even admitted that they had to be coached by an martial arts expert and practice for a few hours before coming on set every day. So that's why he seems like such a novice when he fights in all of his scenes.

      I think most people would have forgiven Danny Rand for being such a entitled dumb-ass, if he actually did look like he knew what he was doing. That way it would had seemed like he was simply full of himself because he was such a highly skilled combatant who had never lost a fight. There'd be some justification there for why he was the way he is. like, yeah he talks a big game but it seems like he can back it up. That sort of thing.

      I think that's what the writers were going for originally... the story of this man who had never lost a fight, was fed this line about how he was the one who would bring down the hand, etc. And so his ego swells, and he runs off to new York to take down the hand. only, he has a few humbling experiences that brings him down a few pegs and this helps make him human.
      He would've been this sympathetic jerk with a heart of gold.

      But, because Finn Jones had zero experience in combat scenes and in martial arts...? Danny Rand just came off as a total buffoon with an overly inflated ego. He's like a little kid who took only a few martial arts classes, and then suddenly he thinks he's a hot shot who can take down everyone. So as an result his speeches about how he's the mighty iron fist rings a little hollow.

      I guess this is a good lesson to every casting director out there... if you want to make a TV show or movie revolving around martial arts? The actors MUST know martial arts and have trained in it for some years!
      Finn's inexperience as a fighter is an issue for sure. But I think it's something they could have worked around during fight scenes. They could have used a stunt double and just avoided showing his face or blurred it (Arrow used this tactic in scenes Chad Coleman's character was fighting the Green Arrow). It's a cheap copout, but it accomplishes its task of making the fight scenes look better.

      That said, I don't think this is where the main Danny Rand problem lies. In season 1, like you brought up, he just didn't come across as likeable as he should have. He was, how to put it, too nonchalant considering what was going on around him. Ward, and this is something that kept happening in season 2, just felt more likeable and relatable than Danny regardless of the skeletons he had in his closet. But even so, I can accept the hero being a bit oblivious to consequences if he has a purpose and knows what he wants to do.

      And ultimately this is where Danny failed this season. Whereas season 1 somewhat helped him realize what he wants to do and the Defenders series set him on a very specific course in regards to being a hero and channeling the Iron Fist, season 2 just threw it all away. So while I would agree that in season 1 he came off worse than they intended him to, I feel that this time the plan was clearly to deconstruct the character. Maybe the writers felt that Colleen was connecting more with the audience (which could very well be the case) and they decided to tap into her potential as the hero of the story. Or maybe they feel that Danny must re-learn everything first before he becomes the hero of the story again. Time will tell. Personally speaking, I feel it's better to just tweak a character as you go along instead of erasing everything and starting from scratch.
      Last edited by costas22; 09-10-2018, 10:59 AM.

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      • #63
        Οn another note, the last scene of the finale namedropped "Orson Randall", who I believe was the first Iron Fist in the comics? So it looks like they are paving the way for more than one Iron Fist from now on.

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        • #64
          I'm finishing up season 2 at last. So I thought I'd offer my thoughts on Season 2.

          Danny Rand's behavior where he plays the oblivious butt-head seems to be greatly toned down in season 2, which makes him more bearable than he was in season 1. I no longer see him doing things like telling Collen Wing how to run her dojo because he's the mighty iron fist and knows all. Or doing stupid things like breaking into people's houses without realizing how that would seem to others.
          He seems more humble now.

          Mary's a really interesting character, even though I wasn't too sure about her at first. It was nice how they showed her mental problems on screen realistically without over-dramatizing it.

          The fight scenes are so much better now, although it's not quite at expert level yet. But at least now it looks like he can hold his own in a fight.

          I do hope they explore more of the iron fist mythos, and what the other iron fists were like. Having all those people be iron fist in the past, does give the TV show some justification for making Collen Wing the new iron fist. That way it wouldn't read like they were trying to replace Danny Rand with Collen Wing because people liked her more than they did him. Also helps that Danny Rand gets to keep his powers.

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          • #65
            I had to rewatch the last scene 2-3 times to decypher what's going on. My initial impression was that in Asia Danny figured out how to channel the Iron Fist again, but that may not be the case. Could be wrong, but I think it was his guns that channeled the Fist. Danny and Ward stole them from someone in Jakarta (Orson Randall probably) and apparently that someone has figured out how to make weapons out of the Fist's power

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            • #66
              I was under the impression that past iron fists were shown to have channeled their chi though weapons in the past, even though they actually didn't need to. It just makes fighting easier.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by costas22
                I had to rewatch the last scene 2-3 times to decypher what's going on. My initial impression was that in Asia Danny figured out how to channel the Iron Fist again, but that may not be the case. Could be wrong, but I think it was his guns that channeled the Fist. Danny and Ward stole them from someone in Jakarta (Orson Randall probably) and apparently that someone has figured out how to make weapons out of the Fist's power

                Yeah, it was the guns that have Iron Fist abilities....Danny doesn't have his own Iron Fist powers back, just yet.

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                • #68
                  Iron Fist has been cancelled after two seasons

                  Maybe they’ll find a way just merge this with Luke Cage...if it’s not cancelled too. They would also have to clean up both series cliffhangers for it to work. Thinking about, they could do that off screen between the next seasons of Daredevil and Jessica Jones (both renewed with the formal’s season premiere airing next week).

                  https://tvline.com/2018/10/12/iron-f...x-no-season-3/
                  Last edited by darkphoenix21; 10-12-2018, 07:08 PM.

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                  • #69
                    Yeah, I would also do a combined show featuring Iron Fist and Luke Cage. IMO there's no need for these characters to have standalone 10/13-episode shows anymore. There aren't enough storylines left for that.

                    Wherever Danny and Colleen end up, hopefully the season 2 cliffhangers will be explored further. The show has had its issues, but it was exploring some intriguing themes at the end of season 2.

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                    • #70
                      Truthfully, I'm not that surprised. Season two was a improvement compared to season one, but it was still somewhat "low quality" compared to the other marvel Netflix shows. The other marvel shows had way better and believable fight scenes for instance.

                      Still, a shame that they cancelled it.

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