Was Rumple really that bad to Bae?

[Anu]

To me Neal is kind of a hypocrite. He was going to marry Tamara while he was still in love with Emma, what a great relationship that would have been. He is angry at Rumple because he abandoned him. Well, what didn't Neal do?

Rumple became the dark one only because he thought he was doing the right thing, trying to save his son. Neal thought he was doing the right thing by abandoning his family. None of them were actually doing the right thing. So who is Neal to judge?

If it wasn't for Neal, Rumple never would have become a coward or even the dark one. Why is Neal entitled for redemption by Emma and their family, when Rumple isn't? And btw, Neal's judgement on Rumple being a bad guy, doesn't really make Rumple a better person. Not trusting him and believing he is a bad guy.

[Degobunny]

I guess the difference is Rumple had every intention of killing Henry. There is no doubt though that they both have some serious abandonment issues.I think Bae is really mad that his father chose magic over him. He did in the flashbacks last night and when Bae went to the world without magic. Rumple was a good father in that he cared, he cared too much though and ruined people's lives in the name of saving, avenging, or finding his son.

[Anu]

I guess the difference is Rumple had every intention of killing Henry. There is no doubt though that they both have some serious abandonment issues.I think Bae is really mad that his father chose magic over him. He did in the flashbacks last night and when Bae went to the world without magic. Rumple was a good father in that he cared, he cared too much though and ruined people's lives in the name of saving, avenging, or finding his son.

But he didn't kill Bae. That's what matters. But Bae doesn't care how much Rumple really does care for him at all and that's what bothers me. To me it feels like the writers are just looking for unnecessary drama.

[spotteddog]

Thanks for creating the new thread, Anu. And yes, Neal also abandoned his son, but remember Neal only found out he had a son in "Manhattan", so he didn't know he was abandoning anyone but Emma, and that was because August said Neal had to leave because Emma was the Savior. Also remember that Neal grew up with a mother who called Rumple a coward and other bad stuff constantly. That absolutely has an affect.

However, Rumple chose magic over Neal/Bae - I would have a very hard time forgiving either of my parents for choosing something over me, and any trust would be gone. Well, probably not, since neither of my parents were the Dark one (although Dad has his moments...)

[Anu]

Thanks for creating the new thread, Anu. And yes, Neal also abandoned his son, but remember Neal only found out he had a son in "Manhattan", so he didn't know he was abandoning anyone but Emma, and that was because August said Neal had to leave because Emma was the Savior. Also remember that Neal grew up with a mother who called Rumple a coward and other bad stuff constantly. That absolutely has an affect.

However, Rumple chose magic over Neal/Bae - I would have a very hard time forgiving either of my parents for choosing something over me, and any trust would be gone. Well, probably not, since neither of my parents were the Dark one (although Dad has his moments...)

Rumple has said several times to Neal that he made a mistake, something that he regretts to this day. Not that Neal has to instantly forgive him. I mean he was afraid of going into that portal. I mean Rumple didn't even want to go into that portal, if not Neal had forced him. It felt like Rumple had no choice there.
Btw, Rumple became a coward and the dark one because of Neal. And he doesn't care about that.

[SteelyGal]

For me, Neal's attitude towards Rumple seems understandable. In Rumple's quest to protect Bae, he made his life miserable. He killed people and made them fear the ground he walks on. And in doing so, he made people fear Bae which he couldn't stand. He thought he could make Bae happy by giving him things he stole from other people. Again, something Bae finds wrong to do. And he turned Bae's home into a prison. He claimed he did so to protect Bae but the truth was he was afraid Bae would leave him.

Bae has seen his dad be unable to give up being the Dark One. Rumple was only willing to sacrifice himself only because he thought Bae was dead. Now that he knows Bae is alive, he is willing to temp fate once again to be with him. Rumple waited for centuries to be with Bae and is not willing to give that up and Bae knows this. He doesn't know what Rumple will do to temp fate but he is not willing to take any chances with his son's life which is understandable.

What is ironic, over Bae's lifetime, Rumple never trusted Bae and now he is asking Bae to trust him with Henry's life.

[Anu]

I see that there's many Rumple haters here. Neal doesn't even know his son.

[Anu]

For me, Neal's attitude towards Rumple seems understandable. In Rumple's quest to protect Bae, he made his life miserable. He killed people and made them fear the ground he walks on. And in doing so, he made people fear Bae which he couldn't stand. He thought he could make Bae happy by giving him things he stole from other people and he turned Bae's home into a prison. He claimed he did so to protect Bae but the truth was he was afraid Bae would leave him.

Bae has seen his dad be unable to give up being the Dark One. Rumple was only willing to sacrifice himself only because he thought Bae was dead. Now that he knows Bae is alive, he is willing to temp fate once again to be with him. Rumple waited for centuries to be with Bae and is not willing to give that up and Bae knows this. He doesn't know what Rumple will do to temp fate but he is not willing to take any chances with his son's life.

What is ironic, over Bae's lifetime, Rumple never trusted him and now he is asking Bae to trust him with Henry's life.

No matter what he did everything for his son. His life turned to the worse because of his son. You can't take that away. It's not Rumple's fault that people feared Bae. He became something he didn't want to be. What do you mean Rumple never trusted Bae?

[spotteddog]

I have to disagree about Neal/Bae making Rumple a coward. Yes, Rumple injured himself to avoid the Ogre Wars because a Seer said being in the war would result in Bae not having a father. Up until that point Rumple seemed quite eager to join up. But later there were other times when Rumple cowered and even kissed a soldiers boot. I am afraid that, without his powers and even sometimes with his powers, Rumple is a coward. I mean, if Rumple is not a coward, why did he even consider taking Pan's offer for peace if Rumple would leave Henry?

Do you think we will ever see Rumple and Neal on Dr Phil?

[Anu]

I have to disagree about Neal/Bae making Rumple a coward. Yes, Rumple injured himself to avoid the Ogre Wars because a Seer said being in the war would result in Bae not having a father. Up until that point Rumple seemed quite eager to join up. But later there were other times when Rumple cowered and even kissed a soldiers boot. I am afraid that, without his powers and even sometimes with his powers, Rumple is a coward. I mean, if Rumple is not a coward, why did he even consider taking Pan's offer for peace if Rumple would leave Henry?

If he didn't do what the soldier told him to do(to kiss his boot) he could have been seriously injured or even killed. How good is that for Bae? It wasn't because of cowardism he considered the offer, it was because it was the easy way out of it all. It was as human as it could have been. But the thing is that he didn't do it, he only considered it and that was a human thing.

[Anu]

Am I the only one who thinks that Bae is ungrateful?

[SteelyGal]

I see that there's many Rumple haters here. Neal doesn't even know his son.

I blame August for Neal not knowing his son. August convinced Neal to leave Emma because it was for the greater good and it was the only way she could fulfill her destiny. I believe if Neal had known Emma was pregnant, he would have never left.

No matter what he did everything for his son. His life turned to the worse because of his son. You can't take that away. It's not Rumple's fault that people feared Bae. He became something he didn't want to be. What do you mean Rumple never trusted Bae?

What Rumple did was make his son miserable, hated, isolated, and abandoned. I understand making sacrifices for your child but you do it to make their lives better not worse. I'm not sure how much being the Dark One alters your existing personality or just enhances what is already there and that is one of the reasons why Bae has trouble trusting him. It is one thing to trust Rumple but can you really trust the Dark One?

But under no circumstances is Neal to blame for the type of person Rumple has become. Rumple was the adult and he made those decisions as the adult It was Rumple who killed Zoso in fit of rage turning him into the Dark One. If he truly wanted what was best for Bae, he should have gone into that portal with him. But his nasty habit of self preservation won out over from doing the right thing.

Rumple did not trust Bae to go to a world without magic. Rumple did not trust Bae would leave Pan and return home with him on his own free will so he just took him.

I don't have anything against Rumple. I just see his actions differently than others. I do believe he was a loving father before becoming the Dark One but he wasn't one after and Bae feels the same way. He does have good inside him but I don't know if it is strong enough to overcome the darkness in him until he stops being the Dark One.

[SteelyGal]

Am I the only one who thinks that Bae is ungrateful?

Don't worry, there are a lot of folks that feel the same way as you. I'm not sure why they are not posting but hopefully they will.

[spotteddog]

Anu, I don't think what you are seeing is Rumple-hating. It is a complex relationship where both sides have made mistakes, both sides have done bad things, and both sides need to be more understanding and forgiving. I just don't think the blame can be solely pinned on Rumple or Bae.

[moviefan2k4]

One thing that we know so far is that unlike his father, Neal's never murdered anyone. By contrast, Rumple does it on a regular basis, only briefly stopping when Belle's memories were restored. Now, in Neverland, Rummple's main objective is self-preservation. He may genuinely love his son, but he's afraid what little courage he has will disappear if he relinquishes his powers. He's also not sure what kind of "undoing" effect Henry will have on his life (nor do we at this point). I think he made some progress in having his shadow hide the Dark Dagger where no one could find it.