Page 3 of 29 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 435
  1. #31
    Incurable Postaholic DA_Champion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 09
    Location
    Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia
    Posts
    4,344
    I just wish they would make good movies. I keep reading people rave about how the DC animated movies are great film, and great representations of the characters, that they're better than the live-action movies, etc etc etc. but what I'm finding is mostly mediocre cartoons. I've seen the following:

    Superman: Doomsday
    Superman/Batman: Public Enemies

    Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths
    Superman/Batman: Apocalypse
    Batman: The Dark Knight Returns
    Wonder Woman

    These movies are "ok", none of these are on par with anything from Miyazake, Pixar, etc in terms of artistic merit, to take examples from the apex of animation, which maybe isn't fair. The talent level just doesn't appear to be very high ...

  2. #32
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 11
    Posts
    10,738
    DA I recommend Batman: Under the Red Hood widely considered to be the best DC animated movie not for me though personally that goes to Superman VS The Elite.

  3. #33
    aka Mainstream05 j03superbat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 03
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
    Posts
    9,760
    Quote Originally Posted by nate-dog1701d View Post
    Well, I saw The Flashpoint Paradox, and I have to say, it seems like the very definition of a movie that can't fully stand on its own. It feels like the very nature and scope of this story necessitates some form of prerequisite knowledge of the DC world. If their target audience is comic readers, I guess that's fine. I'm just not convinced it totally works on its own merits. Particularly worth noting, I thought Thawne's words that served as the catalyst for Barry's timestream fling were pretty weak. I don't even remember what he said, but I remember thinking, "That's what makes Barry decide to save his mother without regard for the consequences?"

    I enjoyed it to some degree, but I sure hated looking at a lot of it. Did Rob Liefeld have a hand in some of these designs?

    I thought it did a decent job of showcasing Barry's character. Thomas Wayne was pretty good, too. Other than that, I mean, were there other characters? Everyone else was pretty much just thrown in there. Aquaman and Wonder Woman were just faces of their respective forces.

    I have to admit, it was cool seeing Aquaman, Orm, Black Manta, Garth, Kaldur, and Tula all on one team. Also, the Flash and Reverse-Flash fight was pretty good.

    One thing that really bugged me was Flash's costume at the end. In the comic, Barry didn't successfully restore the timeline by himself. He was running, and Pandora swooped in and gave him a line about having to rejoin the three timelines (which were apparently fractured long ago) as one, which created the New 52 and accounted for the costume changes. I figured they'd just go for the classic timeline restoration trope, and it seems they did, but then they pulled that costume change out of nowhere, and it looked horrible. Flash's New 52 suit really isn't all that bad, but that design was absolutely awful. I can't say enough bad things about it. More to the point, did he restore the timeline, or did he create another variation?

    I really wish they would either refrain from doing direct adaptations or choose more contained stories that can work in a timeframe of seventy minutes.
    Is there a thread for Flashpoint Paradox? I can't find one. And that's a shame, because I had the exact opposite reaction: I really loved it.

    I'll be upfront that my love for it comes with a lot of caveats. I think the movie is flawed and suffers from a second act lull where there are simply too many stories that are not paced as well as they could've been. But my lord, I couldn't believe it was Jay Oliva directing. I was pretty unimpressed with his work on The Dark Knight Returns. Everything from the animation, to the sound design, to the voice acting just did not click for me until the second half of part 2. This movie felt like that second half. Everything (again, except for story pacing in the second act) clicked for me. The acting, the direction, the sound design, the animation - it all worked for me. And the last shot of the Flash running through Central City took my breath away.

    I know the violence has been a point of contention for some, and there was a point (really, the last point) that went too far for me and made me question the PG-13 rating, but everything up until then I felt was justified. Here, for the first time I can remember in DC's animation, we saw the consequences of violent superhero action. I'm not saying the physics were perfect or that there weren't some gratuitous shots, but we're seeing characters at war, and there aren't the usual cop-outs to avoid showing said consequences.

    As for the complaint that there are too many minor characters... again, I can see how people will feel that way, but my attitude is the same for this as it was for Young Justice - I do know these characters, and the lack of characterization wasn't a problem for me, because the focus was on Flash and Flashpoint Batman - and those characters are well-developed in this film IMO. My only real complaint about a character not receiving enough screentime is Flash's nemesis - Thawne, the Reverse-Flash. We really have no idea why he hates Flash so much, or why he goes to such great lengths to torture the Scarlet Speedster beyond a quick psychological analysis from Batman at the beginning of the movie, and a later insinuation that he's just Flash's Joker - so of course that's what he does. But it's not enough IMO and I do wish more time had been spent on him. Alas, the 75-minute runtime restriction rears its ugly head again here.

    I did think some of the character designs were off, but the animation is so gorgeous I just forgave it. I disagree that it looks like anime. The character designs do indeed look very influenced by Japanese styles, but unlike Gotham Knights and a lot of the anime shows I see my brother watch, you're not just getting an incredibly well-drawn character model be completely static while his mouth flaps and his eyes twitch. You get character motion. You get fully-animated backgrounds instead of just a bunch of motion lines. And the fighting is incredible. I could simply tell there was more money put into this than a lot of the other films. I'd prefer more American character designs, but these at least give the movie more production value.

    The script is, at several points, more heavy-handed than it should be (subtlety seems to be incredibly rare in animation). But otherwise, this is possibly my favorite DTV of the entire line, because I don't remember finishing any of the other movies with as much of an impression. I don't remember being so emotionally moved (more caveats! Some might question whether the emotional beats at the end are earned; I think they are because @#*& it, they worked on me. I can't unfeel those emotions) by any of the other movies.

    I'd give it a 9/10.
    Last edited by j03superbat; 08-07-2013 at 07:51 PM.

  4. #34
    aka Mainstream05 j03superbat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 03
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
    Posts
    9,760
    Quote Originally Posted by DA_Champion View Post
    I just wish they would make good movies. I keep reading people rave about how the DC animated movies are great film, and great representations of the characters, that they're better than the live-action movies, etc etc etc. but what I'm finding is mostly mediocre cartoons. I've seen the following:

    Superman: Doomsday
    Superman/Batman: Public Enemies

    Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths
    Superman/Batman: Apocalypse
    Batman: The Dark Knight Returns
    Wonder Woman

    These movies are "ok", none of these are on par with anything from Miyazake, Pixar, etc in terms of artistic merit, to take examples from the apex of animation, which maybe isn't fair. The talent level just doesn't appear to be very high ...
    1) Remember, they are direct-to-video. They don't have the resources or schedule of a big-budget, theatrical animated film. Animation-wise, you're never going to see anything that'll rival Pixar or anything like that.

    2) I do like many of these films, but I'm willing to put down money that a lot of people claiming that these are better than any of the live-action movies are upset Batman still isn't wearing spandex. These animated films are simply much more faithful to the source material than any live-action film has been or will ever be (for better or for worse), since many of them are practically just the comic book panels with motion. Or, in the case of Green Lantern, they're just right.

    3) Given how many posts I've seen from you, and getting an idea of what you like and don't like, I don't expect you'd ever like any of these. They're not trying to be high art (again, direct to video), they're just trying to be fun and give the fans what they want. Having said that, I thought Justice League: New Frontier was pretty good, and I don't see it on your list.
    Last edited by j03superbat; 08-07-2013 at 07:34 PM.

  5. #35
    String Bikini Theory BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 09
    Location
    Uncanny X-Valley, Avengers World, Year 2099
    Posts
    6,230
    Quote Originally Posted by j03superbat View Post
    I thought Justice League: New Frontier was pretty good, and I don't see it on your list.
    I'd also add All-Star Superman to the list.

  6. #36
    Incurable Postaholic DA_Champion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 09
    Location
    Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia
    Posts
    4,344
    Quote Originally Posted by j03superbat View Post
    1) Remember, they are direct-to-video. They don't have the resources or schedule of a big-budget, theatrical animated film. Animation-wise, you're never going to see anything that'll rival Pixar or anything like that.

    2) I do like many of these films, but I'm willing to put down money that a lot of people claiming that these are better than any of the live-action movies are upset Batman still isn't wearing spandex. These animated films are simply much more faithful to the source material than any live-action film has been or will ever be (for better or for worse), since many of them are practically just the comic book panels with motion. Or, in the case of Green Lantern, they're just right.

    3) Given how many posts I've seen from you, and getting an idea of what you like and don't like, I don't expect you'd ever like any of these. They're not trying to be high art (again, direct to video), they're just trying to be fun and give the fans what they want. Having said that, I thought Justice League: New Frontier was pretty good, and I don't see it on your list.
    I have not actually gotten around to watching them yet. Pardon me if my criticisms are too strong, I still enjoy them, I just don't think they're great. I do want to watch the remaining ones, and eventually I'll get to it. I did enjoy Wonder Woman for example. I might have enjoyed Crisis on Two Earths, I don't remember lol.

    I'm not sure how relevant your arguments are. First, I don't care that much about the animation, I think the animation in these films is totally fine and satisfactory. The bodyparts have similar proportions between different frames, as opposed to lower budget TV cartoons where the proportions in characters can change from one scene to the next. One can see facial expressions and mannerisms as well, the animation in these is 5 out of 5 in my opinion.

    What bothers me is the storytelling. Superman: Doomsday was such an epic fail, and it's principally because it wasn't a "faithful adaptation of the source material". Watching Superman: Doomsday is like looking for a song you heard whose rhythm and lyrics you like, and then finding some idiotic "remix" instead. I just don't see why they can't make a coherent "motion comic" of one of their most famous stories, a story that works, would it not be profitable?

    Worse than Superman: Doomsday was Public Enemies. In this case, I had no preconceived notions to bias me, I had not read the novelization, and I had not played the video game (Death of Superman had a Super Nintendo adaptation).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	588273_40170_front.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	40.4 KB 
ID:	15889
    So I'm not biased. I just thought it was a crapfest of endless punching scenes. They just kept on fighting for 90 minutes, it was boring. Someone on this board had told me that President Luthor was supposed to be on steroids during the movie, why didn't they mention that? It would have added some character. Did the movie even have a point?

    You talk about low budgets, but I don't know that it would be so expensive to hire better writers. The animation is excellent, it's the writing that's problematic. I've seen more compelling stories from works with inferior animation.

    As far as I can tell, they also don't have any narrative arcs that extend between these movies. Every film is independent.
    Last edited by DA_Champion; 08-08-2013 at 05:38 AM.

  7. #37
    aka Mainstream05 j03superbat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 03
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
    Posts
    9,760
    Quote Originally Posted by DA_Champion View Post
    I have not actually gotten around to watching them yet. Pardon me if my criticisms are too strong, I still enjoy them, I just don't think they're great. I do want to watch the remaining ones, and eventually I'll get to it. I did enjoy Wonder Woman for example. I might have enjoyed Crisis on Two Earths, I don't remember lol.

    I'm not sure how relevant your arguments are. First, I don't care that much about the animation, I think the animation in these films is totally fine and satisfactory. The bodyparts have similar proportions between different frames, as opposed to lower budget TV cartoons where the proportions in characters can change from one scene to the next. One can see facial expressions and mannerisms as well, the animation in these is 5 out of 5 in my opinion.

    What bothers me is the storytelling. Superman: Doomsday was such an epic fail, and it's principally because it wasn't a "faithful adaptation of the source material". Watching Superman: Doomsday is like looking for a song you heard whose rhythm and lyrics you like, and then finding some idiotic "remix" instead. I just don't see why they can't make a coherent "motion comic" of one of their most famous stories, a story that works, would it not be profitable?

    Worse than Superman: Doomsday was Public Enemies. In this case, I had no preconceived notions to bias me, I had not read the novelization, and I had not played the video game (Death of Superman had a Super Nintendo adaptation).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	588273_40170_front.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	40.4 KB 
ID:	15889
    So I'm not biased. I just thought it was a crapfest of endless punching scenes. They just kept on fighting for 90 minutes, it was boring. Someone on this board had told me that President Luthor was supposed to be on steroids during the movie, why didn't they mention that? It would have added some character. Did the movie even have a point?

    You talk about low budgets, but I don't know that it would be so expensive to hire better writers. The animation is excellent, it's the writing that's problematic. I've seen more compelling stories from works with inferior animation.
    Well, other than New Frontier and the newest one, I'd wouldn't argue that any of them are great either.

    I had a lot of problems with Superman: Doomsday. Public Enemies I enjoy, but yes, the storytelling is the weakest part. That was the problem with the comic it's based on, which - believe it or not - was even worse. I did like how they aped the art style from the book though, and it was the first project in a while to reunite Tim Daly and Kevin Conroy. Not that any of this will change your mind, but I do like it for what it is (an hour of superheroes fighting).

    I'm not specifically a student of animation, but I do really enjoy it. I have loved Bruce Timm's work for years. It bothers me when I see bad animation (like the first season of Justice League), so that's why I pointed it out. A few of these, Batman: Year One in particular, I thought were mediocre in that department and it takes me out of the experience.

    If you search these threads, years ago I also made a complaint about the writing quality of these. I'd still like to see better writing, but now that I've seen just how frequent these are, and how WB just wants to make a profit on this line, I suspect that it's a combination of short writing schedules and the demand that they all clock in at a certain runtime that explains the generally not-as-high quality of the scripts. And they've basically said these projects are dictated by how well they're projected to sell. That just doesn't spell a recipe for good writing.

  8. #38
    Nate nate-dog1701d's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 10
    Location
    Sector 2814
    Posts
    3,591
    Quote Originally Posted by j03superbat View Post
    Is there a thread for Flashpoint Paradox? I can't find one. And that's a shame, because I had the exact opposite reaction: I really loved it.
    Well, I didn't say I passionately hated it. I'd just put it more along the lines of "average." There are multiple DTVs that I'd put below this one. Whereas you gave it a 9, I'm more inclined to give it a 6.

    As for there not being a thread, I don't know if you noticed, but these DC DTV threads haven't exactly been booming lately. I think it's easier just to talk about all the releases in the same thread.

    And the last shot of the Flash running through Central City took my breath away.
    I liked that shot of Flash running through the city, but it looked like a complete stylistic change into pure CG. It was a bit jarring for me. But heck, if we can have Batman driving one of his vehicles through Gotham or looking up at the night sky, Superman flying around the globe and smiling, and Spider-Man swinging through New York and screaming, there's no reason not to have Flash running through Central City. If I could run up and down the sides of a building, I probably would.

    Here, for the first time I can remember in DC's animation, we saw the consequences of violent superhero action.
    Perhaps, but I think it has less weight because it isn't the focus. The war is just background, and from where I'm sitting, it has two main purposes: 1) to say, "hey, this is different," and 2) to have a ticking clock that adds some sense of urgency. To be frank, what I got out of this movie was that you shouldn't screw with the timeline, as opposed to a lesson on the consequences of superhero violence. So, in that sense, I do think it degenerates into a "let's kill off everyone" mentality without really exploring the consequences, such that the violence doesn't have the impact it could. I mean, I don't really care if Grifter, Etrigan, Lois, Batson, Luthor, Deathstroke, or the faceless Amazons and Atlanteans get bumped off in this story because they're not real characters. It's kind of like having a civil war fought by droids and clones.

    Thus, I think the film loses sight of the heart of the story. After all, what caused all this? We know from the comics that Barry has spent most of his life trying to solve his mother's murder. I hardly think one scene with Iris at Nora's grave signifies that obsession. And then there's some quip from Thawne that somehow urges Barry to take the plunge. I simply don't think the premise of the movie is earned. For what it's worth, I'm not sure it was earned in the book either*. It seems like such a big leap for Barry to do this kind of thing, and I have a hard time just going along with it. I also think the film would have done well to shine a slightly bigger spotlight on the Barry/Nora dynamic (which would tie into the premise of the entire story, etc.). I didn't remember this until I looked it up (honestly, the book just wasn't all that memorable for me), but there's a scene in the book right when Barry starts to run into the timestream where he somehow gets sucked over to see his mother. There, he tells her how he doesn't want to erase her existence, and she reassures him that whatever happens, she existed, and this timeline is real. It lends a bit more significance to Bruce's line about the memories being a gift. The movie could have benefited from some version of this scene, as it shows some sense of inner conflict and underlines the cause of these events. Overall, I feel more focus on the why is needed.

    What saves this movie for me is the Barry/Thomas Wayne dynamic. I tend to watch movies from a character-first viewpoint. The more I like the characters, the more I enjoy what's going on, and the more I'm willing to let things slide. I think they did fairly well with Barry's character, the relationship with his mother notwithstanding. I got a good sense of who he is as a person - his innate morality and his earnestness to do good. I think they nailed Thomas Wayne, and their chemistry together was pretty good. This was the most memorable part of the book for me, and I think they captured it pretty well.

    In short, I liked the central characters, and the story was decent. I thought the acting, sound design, and animation were good. It's the actual character designs - some, not all - I wasn't crazy about. I particularly hated (big) Superman and Aquaman.


    *I've only read the actual Flashpoint series. From browsing Amazon, I understand there's a Flash trade titled The Road to Flashpoint. It's entirely possible that set of issues spends time on why Barry goes back and saves his mother. I don't know.

  9. #39
    aka Mainstream05 j03superbat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 03
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
    Posts
    9,760
    Quote Originally Posted by nate-dog1701d View Post
    Overall, I feel more focus on the why is needed.
    I feel like that sums up the majority of the movie's problem, and as I said before, I think it could've been fixed with a longer running time, but given that every film before this has been the same running time, I don't know, I just accepted it. I'm not saying it's Citizen Kane, but I had a lot of fun while I was watching it, and filled a lot of the character blanks with what I know about them from the comics. I usually hate that reasoning to explain away problems in feature films, but these things have a very specific audience, so who are we kidding?

  10. #40
    Board Master cksidekick's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 07
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,904
    Quote Originally Posted by j03superbat View Post
    I feel like that sums up the majority of the movie's problem, and as I said before, I think it could've been fixed with a longer running time, but given that every film before this has been the same running time, I don't know, I just accepted it. I'm not saying it's Citizen Kane, but I had a lot of fun while I was watching it, and filled a lot of the character blanks with what I know about them from the comics. I usually hate that reasoning to explain away problems in feature films, but these things have a very specific audience, so who are we kidding?

    That's my take on things. If it is not an origin story, I simply don't need character development to make it a good film. An arc, sure, but as you say " these things have a very specific audience". Most anyone watching it already know the characters. And a 7 year old isn't worried about character development. they will learn "who" and "why" of it all through a culmination of experiences. Sometimes an action packed film is the right choice for the story they want to tell.

    That doesn't in and of itself, make for a good movie, but I don't add that to the checklist of positives v/s negatives.

  11. #41
    Nate nate-dog1701d's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 10
    Location
    Sector 2814
    Posts
    3,591
    I think my top five looks like this, roughly in this order:

    -Superman vs. The Elite
    -Batman: Under the Red Hood
    -Justice League: New Frontier
    -Green Lantern: First Flight
    -Wonder Woman


    I have a question for anyone interested in answering: Do you guys find value in strictly adapting comic storylines into animated movies?

    In my top five, two are not based on specific comics, and the other three are from source material I have not read. I can only speculate how I might feel differently about those three had I read them beforehand, but I seem to prefer the movies that aren't based on books I've read. I've heard the producers say more than once that The Dark Knight Returns was long overdue for an adaptation. What does that mean? It's already considered to be one of the greatest Batman stories and graphic novels in general (my feelings aside), so what does it gain by being animated? What necessitates its translation to film? If you're already doing adaptions and you're just cherry picking which stories to do, I understand leaning toward certain seminal works, but that leads back to why they need to be adapted at all.

    When Scott Snyder's Joker story concluded several months ago, one of the top comments I saw on one website was something along the lines of, "Wouldn't this make a great animated movie?" A part of me resented this comment. Would this story somehow achieve validation by showing up in a different medium? Can a comic book not stand on its own? Why is this a gut reaction? I don't know if that poster really thought that, but it's not an isolated sentiment. One of the worst things that could happen to comics is for them to be reduced to movie storyboards. That's something I think about whenever I see people requesting certain comics be adapted. It's not that it's wrong or an inherently negative thing. I just personally don't find much value in the translation from panel to screen. I've also found that something is seemingly always lost in the translation. I do find value in elements of classic stories being used to tell different stories (like Nolan's movies). That's why I'd like to see more attempts at original stories rather than straight adaptation after straight adaptation.

    So, like I said, I'm interested to see what you guys think. I'm sure someone disagrees.

    Quote Originally Posted by j03superbat View Post
    Well, other than New Frontier and the newest one, I'd wouldn't argue that any of them are great either.
    I'd be interested to know what you thought of Superman vs. The Elite. I don't recall you ever saying.
    Last edited by nate-dog1701d; 08-09-2013 at 11:58 PM.

  12. #42
    aka Mainstream05 j03superbat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 03
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
    Posts
    9,760
    Quote Originally Posted by nate-dog1701d View Post
    I have a question for anyone interested in answering: Do you guys find value in strictly adapting comic storylines into animated movies?

    In my top five, two are not based on specific comics, and the other three are from source material I have not read. I can only speculate how I might feel differently about those three had I read them beforehand, but I seem to prefer the movies that aren't based on books I've read. I've heard the producers say more than once that The Dark Knight Returns was long overdue for an adaptation. What does that mean? It's already considered to be one of the greatest Batman stories and graphic novels in general (my feelings aside), so what does it gain by being animated? What necessitates its translation to film? If you're already doing adaptions and you're just cherry picking which stories to do, I understand leaning toward certain seminal works, but that leads back to why they need to be adapted at all.

    When Scott Snyder's Joker story concluded several months ago, one of the top comments I saw on one website was something along the lines of, "Wouldn't this make a great animated movie?" A part of me resented this comment. Would this story somehow achieve validation by showing up in a different medium? Can a comic book not stand on its own? Why is this a gut reaction? I don't know if that poster really thought that, but it's not an isolated sentiment. One of the worst things that could happen to comics is for them to be reduced to movie storyboards. That's something I think about whenever I see people requesting certain comics be adapted. It's not that it's wrong or an inherently negative thing. I just personally don't find much value in the translation from panel to screen. I've also found that something is seemingly always lost in the translation. I do find value in elements of classic stories being used to tell different stories (like Nolan's movies). That's why I'd like to see more attempts at original stories rather than straight adaptation after straight adaptation.
    I agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by nate-dog1701d View Post
    I'd be interested to know what you thought of Superman vs. The Elite. I don't recall you ever saying.
    I remember thinking it was okay. I liked that the art style was different and I did like that it tried to tell a different kind of story than Unbound and Doomsday (I'm presuming; I never saw Unbound). But I also felt that the same story could've been told in 22 minutes on the animated series. The stakes just never felt high enough to me, and I remember a lot of scenes feeling like padding.

  13. #43
    Incurable Postaholic DA_Champion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 09
    Location
    Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia
    Posts
    4,344
    Nate-Dog,

    It takes different kinds of literacy to appreciate film, animated film, novels, graphic novels, short comics, video games, episodic TV shows, TV shows with serializied narratives, et cetera. When you adapt a story to a different format you can reach a wider audience, and let them appreciate what is or may be a good work of art. You can also use the strengths of that medium, for example there are no sound effects in writing.

    As an example, I cannot follow video games. I used to be good at video games when they were simpler, then they got more expensive and I stopped playing, and since then they have also gotten more sophisticated and more interesting. I hear that "Knights of the Old Republic" and "Arkham Asylum" have excellent storylines, and I'd love to know them, but those storylines are not accessible to me. I no longer have the video game IQ necessary to appreciate the more complex video games, and if I picked these up I would be stuck for a few weeks, and I would get bored much before I would pick up how to advance. would like to see them adapted to a format I can follow. This doesn't just apply to science fiction, but also to music, board games (Battleship made a fun movie), science (documentaries can make money), etc. The first Resident Evil movie was fun, and Warcraft has a good shot at being fun.

    Similarly, most people don't have the comic literacy you have. If they read the same comic you read, it won't be as good, because they don't have a literacy for it. The gap is smaller for movies.

    The second point is that some of these story adaptations are inferior. Superman: Doomsday is simply inferior to Death and Return of Superman. They didn't replace the story with something better. Superman: Doomsday is like looking for a great song on youtube and finding some incoherent "remix". Some musical remixes are better than the original song, but usually the remixes are actually worse. That's because there are more ways to make bad art than to make good art, as such if you're remixing something, you're more likely to screw it up. DC has some good art, why can't they adapt it properly?

    It's not impossible to properly adapt written material into film format. Twilight, Hunger Games (at least so far), Harry Potter, and Lord of the Rings all have relatively faithful movie adaptations, in contrast to I, Robot. Superman: Doomsday is a lot more like I, Robot than like Harry Potter in terms of faithfulness. If someone tells me that famous graphic novels can't be properly adapted into a live-action movies or even animated movies, I call BS.

    That is not to say that there shouldn't be new material. There should be new material, and there is no conflict between having some adaptations and some new materials.

    ETA: There is also love for the characters. I would like to see a movie or HBO adaptation of Final Fantasy VI, or even a prequel storyline dealing with the war of the magi. I realise that I am going to wait for a long time. On the other hand... we are seeing relaunches of evangelion and sailor moon in animation :-)
    Last edited by DA_Champion; 08-10-2013 at 04:45 AM.

  14. #44
    Pirate King Backward Galaxy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 03
    Location
    The Danger Zone
    Posts
    11,011
    Quote Originally Posted by nate-dog1701d View Post
    I have a question for anyone interested in answering: Do you guys find value in strictly adapting comic storylines into animated movies?

    In my top five, two are not based on specific comics, and the other three are from source material I have not read. I can only speculate how I might feel differently about those three had I read them beforehand, but I seem to prefer the movies that aren't based on books I've read. I've heard the producers say more than once that The Dark Knight Returns was long overdue for an adaptation. What does that mean?
    To me (as in, if I were to say that), it would mean that the story itself was well told in its original medium, was in some way either massively successful or revolutionary or both based on the time it was released, AND is inherently cinematic in some way. The Dark Knight Returns meets all three of these requirements.

    It's already considered to be one of the greatest Batman stories and graphic novels in general (my feelings aside), so what does it gain by being animated? What necessitates its translation to film?
    What does an actor bring to a performance? What does a director bring to a story's depiction that isn't wholly accomplished by storyboard artists? A lot, in my opinion. There's also the fact that an animated film has the opportunity to reach an audience that the graphic novel doesn't appeal to and bring awareness with respect to a story that is almost 30 years old.

    Proper adaptation isn't simply a regurgitation of what's already been done. Every artist, performer, and director brings their own flavor to it. It's why we still perform Shakespeare. A failed adaptation is generally one that adds nothing, misses the point of the original, or somehow reduces the artistic integrity of the original.
    Last edited by Backward Galaxy; 08-10-2013 at 08:17 AM.

  15. #45
    Board Master cksidekick's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 07
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,904
    Quote Originally Posted by nate-dog1701d View Post

    I have a question for anyone interested in answering: Do you guys find value in strictly adapting comic story lines into animated movies?

    In my top five, two are not based on specific comics, and the other three are from source material I have not read. I can only speculate how I might feel differently about those three had I read them beforehand, but I seem to prefer the movies that aren't based on books I've read. I've heard the producers say more than once that The Dark Knight Returns was long overdue for an adaptation. What does that mean? It's already considered to be one of the greatest Batman stories and graphic novels in general (my feelings aside), so what does it gain by being animated? What necessitates its translation to film? If you're already doing adaptions and you're just cherry picking which stories to do, I understand leaning toward certain seminal works, but that leads back to why they need to be adapted at all.

    When Scott Snyder's Joker story concluded several months ago, one of the top comments I saw on one website was something along the lines of, "Wouldn't this make a great animated movie?" A part of me resented this comment. Would this story somehow achieve validation by showing up in a different medium? Can a comic book not stand on its own? Why is this a gut reaction? I don't know if that poster really thought that, but it's not an isolated sentiment. One of the worst things that could happen to comics is for them to be reduced to movie storyboards. That's something I think about whenever I see people requesting certain comics be adapted. It's not that it's wrong or an inherently negative thing. I just personally don't find much value in the translation from panel to screen. I've also found that something is seemingly always lost in the translation. I do find value in elements of classic stories being used to tell different stories (like Nolan's movies). That's why I'd like to see more attempts at original stories rather than straight adaptation after straight adaptation.

    So, like I said, I'm interested to see what you guys think. I'm sure someone disagrees.
    I guess I have a couple of points here. I don't believe one CAN "strictly adapt". The pacing of a comic simply won't work in translation to animated or live action. And comics often have way too many characters involved to bring them all in on a film. The word adaptation is key. That can destroy a story if not done well. It can leave fans who love the original with a bad taste in their mouths. (Superman: Doomasday) So, I think you can't just say, "That story is GREAT! It should be in animation". It could in fact loose way too much of what makes it great in the first place.

    Why adapt at all? Because in terms of the larger general public I dont believe comics DO stand on their own. The audience is far smaller than what the material deserves. Because some stories can hold up quite well in another format. If the integrity of the material is maintained, you can actually bring new fans to the book. This was true for me with Kick Ass. I had no desire to read it before the movie. I don't have any numbers to give you but Im willing to bet, on top of ticket sales for the movie, a whole host of new fans now own it in print. And I'm not even getting into the $$$$ of it all here. Im talking only about the artistic value and appreciation of an audience. Why would anyone put the Mona Lisa in a basement somewhere? It needs to be on display for maximum viewing.
    Last edited by cksidekick; 08-10-2013 at 12:29 PM.

Page 3 of 29 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •