Thoughts on the direction of the series

[Anno_Domini]

Can you call a demon a woman? Haha.

[Tabularasa]

Ahh, yes...she has been the sole woman suvivor, but definitely at a cost with being mindwiped. Either way, it seems a woman on this serious will always get effed.



He was going down that path this entire season; saying it was a "change on a dime" makes it seem like you weren't even watching season six.

And c'mon, after not receiving a sign from God, of course that would push Castiel to WANT to be a God, or at least try to lead Heaven. But to become militant? I still suspect that is due to those millions....and millions...of Purgatory souls. Haha, Rock reference. Awesome.

At what part in season 6 was it obvious that Cas wanted to become a new god? All he wanted was to stop Raphael. Why would Cas want to be a God? He didn't want to lead anyone. He just wanted people to have free will. Cas had also lost his faith before in season 5 and he never did anything like this and the stakes were a lot higher then.

Cas was going down a dark path. He was doing things for good but the way he was doing them were bad. But by turning him into a freaking God and then asking the Winchesters to bow down to him? He knew getting all the souls would turn him into that, especially when Raphael says that if there is going to be a new God, it would be him. So Cas knew that by opening up purgatory and gaining the souls, he would be a God. There was nothing in any scene except for the very last one, that gave me that indication. There's no reason why Cas would want to become a God just because God isn't listening to him.

[xrayvision]

At what part in season 6 was it obvious that Cas wanted to become a new god? All he wanted was to stop Raphael. Why would Cas want to be a God? He didn't want to lead anyone. He just wanted people to have free will. Cas had also lost his faith before in season 5 and he never did anything like this and the stakes were a lot higher then.

Cas was going down a dark path. He was doing things for good but the way he was doing them were bad. But by turning him into a freaking God and then asking the Winchesters to bow down to him? He knew getting all the souls would turn him into that, especially when Raphael says that if there is going to be a new God, it would be him. So Cas knew that by opening up purgatory and gaining the souls, he would be a God. There was nothing in any scene except for the very last one, that gave me that indication. There's no reason why Cas would want to become a God just because God isn't listening to him.

I don't think it was ever obvious or intended by Cas. I think as far as he knew, he would get the power of a super powerful archangel when he absorbed the souls (he would have the power of Michael who could kill Raphael). I don't think he ever knew or intended to get the power close to that of God. But when it happened, he was drunk with power & was happy to accept it for what it was. The path Cas was on required him to absorb lots of power & power corrupts. And if he absorbed so much that it took him past the limits of being an angel without him knowing that would happen, then what happened makes sense.

I think by the time he heard Raphael said what he did about all those souls turning him into the new God, Cas was left with the choice that it will either be him or Raphael, so he obviously chose himself to be the new God. But until then, I don't think Cas knew the extent of power absorbing all those souls he would get. It was an unintended benefit for Cas. One that he never wanted but couldn't say no to once he had that power or earlier when he was put into the position that it would either be him or Raphael who would take those souls. It's classic.

[Anno_Domini]

At what part in season 6 was it obvious that Cas wanted to become a new god? All he wanted was to stop Raphael. Why would Cas want to be a God? He didn't want to lead anyone. He just wanted people to have free will. Cas had also lost his faith before in season 5 and he never did anything like this and the stakes were a lot higher then.

Cas was going down a dark path. He was doing things for good but the way he was doing them were bad. But by turning him into a freaking God and then asking the Winchesters to bow down to him? He knew getting all the souls would turn him into that, especially when Raphael says that if there is going to be a new God, it would be him. So Cas knew that by opening up purgatory and gaining the souls, he would be a God. There was nothing in any scene except for the very last one, that gave me that indication. There's no reason why Cas would want to become a God just because God isn't listening to him.

I said Cas was heading down a dark path, I never said we ever had any indication that he wanted to be God. If anything, Castiel knew that those souls would grant him enough power to take down Raphael, but instead, and something he most likely thought he could control, was that the souls would corrupt him severely and he quickly became even more power hungry, so of course he would immediately have a change of heart with all of those souls inside him. That, plus the fact the God still doesn't communicate with him, it would truly mess with his mind, which, I could see as the negative side of free will: being greedy and power hungry.

As for what Raphael said, Castiel perhaps had the idea that all of those souls would make an archangel turn into a Deity and not a lower-level angel as Cas was, but, sadly, Castiel was wrong and misinformed.

I'm saying that Castiel isn't full-on baddie, as I think we saw a bit of Good!Cas during that little eye twitch, but those souls are corrupting him and pretty much taking over an angel's vessel and its powers.

[chole_fan]

There's a difference between not liking a certain character's development and not liking the show anymore when a minor character becomes a villain, lol. And, yes, Cas became a minor character this season, even if Misha had top billing.

You really don't handle being disagreed with very well do you

I never said I didn't like the show anymore or that the show was ruined. In fact I said just the opposite and I quote myself "While I don't think the show has been ruined..." I will still watch it next season.

We will have to agree to disagree about Cas. He is not a "minor" character. No matter how much actual screen time he logged this season, he was still a major presence on the show with a lot of history with the boys. That is not what I consider a minor character. It's not like he was some random guy they plucked off the street and made into a villian. If that were the case, no one would be upset because no one would have any emotional connection to that person.

Look, I'm not some crazed extreme Cas fan, but he became an integral part of the show so yes, his becoming a viliian is a big deal.

Side note, Misha never had "top billing". He was a regular yes, but I am sure J2 retained "top billing" over him.

[Divine Skylord]

I personally still want to see continued angelic-involvement in the show. Castiel actually became my favorite character. I'm taking this new development with a grain of salt. I still have high hopes that he'll be redeemed somehow. I'd hate to see him dead.

[Anno_Domini]

I never said I didn't like the show anymore. I don't think this has "ruined" the show and I will still watch it next season.

Lol, wasn't referring to you. You seemed to have not liked the change, which I said was natural, but to some, they said they hate the show because of a change, which I think isn't logical.

We will have to agree to disagree about Cas. He is not a "minor" character. No matter how much actual screen time he logged this season, he was still a major presence on the show with a lot of history with the boys. That is not what I consider a minor character. It's not like he was some random guy they plucked off the street and made into a villian. If that were the case, no one would be upset because no one would have any emotional connection to that person.

That we will. I always assumed Bobby was much, much more important than Castiel since Cas first showed up. He had his great moments, but in the end, he isn't needed and will have to go.

Look, I'm not some crazed extreme Cas fan, but he became an integral part of the show so yes, his becoming a viliian is a big deal.

It can be a big deal, but as I said, I made the comparison from a fan who doesn't like the idea(you) over someone that doesn't like the idea and think it's the end of the series and it'll go downhill from now on(others on this forum).

Side note, Misha never had "top billing". He was a regular yes, but I am sure J2 retained "top billing" over him.

Top billing, to me, has just been who gets to be "stars" of the show aside from just the "guest stars".

[HowardFilms]

But characters that change on a dime that ruin 3 years of character development is bad writing.

On a dime? Did you only watch the season premiere and finale? He's been headed this way for a whole year, and there were hints of it in Season 5!

[xrayvision]

I said Cas was heading down a dark path, I never said we ever had any indication that he wanted to be God. If anything, Castiel knew that those souls would grant him enough power to take down Raphael, but instead, and something he most likely thought he could control, was that the souls would corrupt him severely and he quickly became even more power hungry, so of course he would immediately have a change of heart with all of those souls inside him. That, plus the fact the God still doesn't communicate with him, it would truly mess with his mind, which, I could see as the negative side of free will: being greedy and power hungry.

As for what Raphael said, Castiel perhaps had the idea that all of those souls would make an archangel turn into a Deity and not a lower-level angel as Cas was, but, sadly, Castiel was wrong and misinformed.

I'm saying that Castiel isn't full-on baddie, as I think we saw a bit of Good!Cas during that little eye twitch, but those souls are corrupting him and pretty much taking over an angel's vessel and its powers.

I don't think it's so much the souls are corrupting him as the power they're giving him that's really corrupting him. To me, it's obvious that Cas believes there is a need to restore order given God's absence & that's a huge reason why he's doing what he's doing. So he does have some good intention since the world & Heaven are in total chaos & restoring order would definitely be a good thing. The problem is that Cas is not God, nor was he ever meant to fill God's shoes. I don't think Cas is evil yet. Right now, I think Cas' attitude is a lot like it was in The Rapture when he came back from the disciplinary action he faced in Heaven & told Dean "I serve Heaven, I don't serve man...and I certainly don't serve you". In that episode, he was punished for siding with Dean and showed his discontent to Dean. In this episode, Dean refused to put his trust in Castiel this one time and I believe Cas felt betrayed to the point where he no longer considers Dean a friend and is treating him similarly to how he did in The Rapture, but here his power has increased like a million-fold. So I think the shift in attitude we saw was a combination of him feeling the need to take charge & become the new God to restore order & end chaos while also feeling betrayed by Dean & Sam for not believing in him & even more in Sam for trying to kill him. It's pretty much just like The Rapture where he broke off helping/serving humanity. He's doing the same here. Cas also feels the need to put the fear of Cas-God in people, so I believe this is the start of Cas going Old Testament on the world, Heaven, and hell. And once he starts killing angels & humans who don't agree with him or won't bow to/serve him, then that's when he will really turn evil. Already what he's doing now is so very wrong because nobody was ever meant to take God's place & everyone who did became some of the worst evils in history.

[Tabularasa]

On a dime? Did you only watch the season premiere and finale? He's been headed this way for a whole year, and there were hints of it in Season 5!

I've already talked about how they hinted at it in season 5 before. He was headed down a dark path for what he thought was a good reason. But at no point until the last minutes of the finale, did they ever hint of him wanting to become a new God or turn on all of his friends. Until the season finale, Cas was still redeemable, but after the finale, not so much.

[i_need_a_new_username]

He lost faith in God in Dark Side of the Moon. However his faith was renewed when he resurrected him, but he never returned to Heaven. There was only so many times he could take that kind of disappointment before he took it into his own hands. Cas repeatedly asked for help and God showed apathy once more to what could end creation. Cas has all this power now, if someone should watch over creation, why not Cas?

[Kar.]

Sera didn't ruin the show, just ****** up Castiel's character. Someone mentioned earlier it'd be like Bobby becoming a villain and I agree 100%.

[HowardFilms]

SAM was practically a villain at several points. If one of the brothers can be without ruining the show, then anyone is fair game.

[Anno_Domini]

I'd actually like to see Dean as a villain sometime...I always wondered how a Demon!Dean would be ever since "Dream A Little Dream Of Me".

[Tabularasa]

Sam was only doing what he thought needed to be done to stop Lucifer from rising. He was being manipulated by Ruby. That's why I was okay with Cas going down a dark road because he was being manipulated by Crowley. But Sam never killed his friend. And he never did anything knowing that he would become a God. And right after Sam had gone dark-side and become a demon in the season 4 finale, he saw he had been played and helped Dean kill Ruby. Even with all that Sam did, there were still ways to redeem him. I'm not seeing how they can redeem Cas and that's the problem.