Do you remember when Tess did this?

[borednow]

... who said I love Tess? Did I ever say that? I love Clark! That's who I love and I expect freaking better from him then I do from Chloe, or from Lex, or from Tess!

[Ek12]

Well the problem is if he doesn't know about it how is it relevant to his actions towards her? Is it okay to punish the wicked with no proof they are wicked?

And no ultimately, Clark should be above doing crap like he did in this episode. He's not the gothic avenger he is the beacon of light however my point of view on that said, if the argument is that Tess is an evil murderer, therefore it's okay for Clark to treat her like a rag doll: wouldn't Clark need to know the evil murder thing? Otherwise to his knowledge he is just tossing around someone who is less then trustworthy and manipulative but not a killer. See my point?

Clark knows of some of the evil things Tess has done, which is enough for him to treat her as a bad guy. My point was that Clark doesn't have to know every single thing shes done. And besides Clark knows that the only way to get the truth out of Tess is to threaten her, every time hes tried to without it shes lied to him.

[Dyanara]

I am so sick and tired of people who just refuse to actual listen to the argument. No1 is kissing Tess' a** and saying she is a good person. She is on theh same level as Chloe and Oliver and she doesnt deserve the treatment she is getting from Clark who is supposed to be above such BS. But apparently he's not, he's just as low as Lex, Tess, and Oliver. Thanks for informing me that this is the Godfather version of superman.

[KryptoB-ron]

Clark knows of some of the evil things Tess has done, which is enough for him to treat her as a bad guy. My point was that Clark doesn't have to know every single thing shes done. And besides Clark knows that the only way to get the truth out of Tess is to threaten her, every time hes tried to without it shes lied to him.

Last year she was honest and open with Clark and he denied her time and time again. I hate to make this into a this is all Clark's fault type of thing but he was the one who started the lies and deciet in their relationship.

OP I agree that she has done some awful things. However, in this episode she sacrificed her life for Clark, Oliver, Chloe and the entire JLA. She has put her life on the line a few times this season protecting Clark. I think she should be offered a chance of redemption considering all of the other characters the JLA have offered redemption to. In this episode she chose to put her life in danger and if she survives then to live a life in hiding and for doing that she got Clark strangling her and Oliver denying her.

[Dyanara]

I dont know if she should be offered redemption, I at the least want her to be offered the chance not to be beat up at every meeting with Clark.
I dont know what makes people think we have forgotten that she has killed numerous people and kidnapped and treated Lois like a gunea pig, But in this episode, she did not deserve the crap she took from Clark and Oliver at the end.

[KryptoB-ron]

I dont know if she should be offered redemption, I at the least want her to be offered the chance not to be beat up at every meeting with Clark.
I dont know what makes people think we have forgotten that she has killed numerous people and kidnapped and treated Lois like a gunea pig, But in this episode, she did not deserve the crap she took from Clark and Oliver at the end.

I think it's a double standard for Zod and the Kandorians to be offered a chance at redemption and to try and 'save' them when Tess sacrificed her life for Clark, Oliver, etc in this episode and she got a lot of things done to her. Her intentions aren't always clear but in a misguided way she has been on Clark's side. Unlike Zod or other characters who smile and pretend to be Clark's friend but have ulterior motives and do shady things behind his back. Tess IMO is more genuine to Clark than a lot of the other characters on this show.

[borednow]

Superman should offer a chance of redemption to EVERYONE... that's why the no kill rule exists, because he believes everyone should have a chance to turn themselves around. It's up to them to do it but he has to believe that anyone can... which I thought was the point of Lionel... or at lest it should have been...

[Dyanara]

Perhaps and this is just a perhaps, if Tess had gone to Clark he would have helped her. But with the horrible way he has treated her all season I cant guarantee that.

[KryptoB-ron]

Superman should offer a chance of redemption to EVERYONE... that's why the no kill rule exists, because he believes everyone should have a chance to turn themselves around. It's up to them to do it but he has to believe that anyone can... which I thought was the point of Lionel... or at lest it should have been...

This is what mainly annoys me about the portrayal of Clark in regards to his relationship with Tess. I'm not saying Tess will end up a good guy but I think she deserves a chance at redemption from Clark considering that's his moral. That final scene of Oliver's really portrayed him in a bad light imo but his character was never about giving second chances. I think there have been far worse characters out there that have been given a chance to redeem themselves but she isn't given a chance and she just sacrificed her life to save theirs'.

Perhaps and this is just a perhaps, if Tess had gone to Clark he would have helped her. But with the horrible way he has treated her all season I cant guarantee that.

That's entirely possible but Tess isn't aware of Clark's morals and he just threatened to throw her off a building in this episode. I wouldn't want to ask for help from someone who has physically abused me all season.

[Exedore]

I don't have a problem with Clark/Superman being aggressive now and then. But they are taking a bit too far with Tess: he is doing it too often (almost every time they cross paths) and it feels like he is incapable of (or worse, that he does not feel like) getting any information from her without using violence. That does not feel right to me.

[hellokitty]

Clark may or may not know about these evil deeds, but he can certainly ascertain that Tess isn't or hasn't always been on the up and up. He was privy to her deviousness from last season, he was put through her crazy alien Jesus rantings for a long time. He knows she has some kind of agenda, that she worked for Lex, that she had all access to Lex and Lionel's information on him and his true identity. She can't be trusted, even though she hasn't divulged Clark's secret, I think her actions last year, whether or not Clark fully knows about them, have made him lose trust in her. His interactions with her last year were always long-winded, beating around the bush rantings that just gave me a headache and made me grow tired of her character, and they probably did the same to Clark. So I understand if he doesn't want to stand around when time is of the essense and talk about her dreams and hopes of a better world and his role in it. He's had enough and he's not going to pussyfoot around her anymore like last year. She already knows who he is, there's no point.

However, all that Tess has done and how she's been portrayed don't make up for the way she was treated in this episode. After her encounter with Clark...which, although discomforting to watch--any scene like that is, actually...she went to Oliver in order to help him. And she tried to ask for forgiveness and help in the end. Yeah, she doesn't deserve it according to some standards, yes she probably only did it to save her life. But hey it's certainly not a crime to have self-preservation. And if anything, Tess is the master of self-preservation. I found Oliver's treatment of Tess to be more rich (in a bad way) and loathesome than Clark's.

But I sincerely doubt this will be the last of her, and I certainly think that she'll come back guns-a blazing.

[LoisReincarnate]

Did any of the Tess lovers ever watch "Pandora"??? Did they see who Tess sided with??? Did they see what happened to all the humans???
I don't think Clark will forget what happened, nor Oliver, nor Chloe. As Clark told MM.......it still might happen. I think Tess is lucky to be alive!!!

Before I begin, let me clarify that I don't love Tess or advocate anything she has done. I do, however, find fault with your logic. You are referencing Tess' loyalty to Zod in Pandora as why Clark, Oliver, and/or Chloe should shun Tess, but did you ever think that the reason that Tess aligns with Zod is because she has no one else left to turn to?

From what the producers have said and what has been implied onscreen it seems that several things that transpired in Pandora are being set up to happen again in the finale. What I infer from that is that a sort of paradox is occurring where everyone is repeating a lot of the same mistakes of the alternate universe unknowingly in the attempt to prevent that alternate universe from coming to fruition. I have a great feeling that his rejection of Tess is one of those mistakes.

Oliver told her to never go near him or his friends again and Waller is out to kill Tess because of her betrayal of Checkmate. Who is left for a frightened Tess to seek protection from? Zod. So even if you don't agree from an ethical perspective that Oliver should have shown Tess some sort of empathy, especially since he had to seek forgiveness from Clark literally episodes prior, can you at least appreciate that he was careless and uninsightful in his rejection of Tess?

[hellokitty]

This is what mainly annoys me about the portrayal of Clark in regards to his relationship with Tess. I'm not saying Tess will end up a good guy but I think she deserves a chance at redemption from Clark considering that's his moral. That final scene of Oliver's really portrayed him in a bad light imo but his character was never about giving second chances. I think there have been far worse characters out there that have been given a chance to redeem themselves but she isn't given a chance and she just sacrificed her life to save theirs'.

Agreed. I had hoped she would have gone to Clark, but then:

That's entirely possible but Tess isn't aware of Clark's morals and he just threatened to throw her off a building in this episode. I wouldn't want to ask for help from someone who has physically abused me all season.

I think she might though, since even while he was choke-holding her, she was thanking him for revealing himself. You could tell she still feared him in AJ, but I think she would have hoped that he would trust her enough to align with her. Odd line of thinking, but that's Tess, an enigma. She also touted him as a savior in Persuasion, although, I have to wonder what her actual feelings toward him are now after his actions toward her in that episode. Who knows if he apologized for that one or not.

All I know is they've set her up as this horrible, evil, villainous woman, but she's been portrayed so duplicitious, so dubiously, it's hard not to also empathize with her. Had Oliver's actions or even Clark's happened last year, it might have made more sense to me. Cus then I think it would have knocked some sense into Tess.

[LoisReincarnate]

Superman should offer a chance of redemption to EVERYONE... that's why the no kill rule exists, because he believes everyone should have a chance to turn themselves around. It's up to them to do it but he has to believe that anyone can... which I thought was the point of Lionel... or at lest it should have been...

ITA.

I posted this in another thread:

True acts of altruism don't rely on reciprocity. Being a hero isn't about saving those that are worthy or will return the favor, it is about doing what is right. They aren't gods, they shouldn't choose who deserves to be saved and who doesn't. Tess shouldn't have to earn Oliver's assistance, he should help because it is right to help others, especially if they ask for forgivness and seek redemption. Oliver himself literally shot Clark in the back last season and had his fair share of responsibility for the consequences of Doomsday, but Clark chose to forgive him in Echo. Clark always forgives others who have wronged him, even when they don't apologize or seek redemption. Its what both infuriates fans and makes him a great hero.

Because of Oliver's rejection of Tess and what I anticipate the consequences of said rejection to be, I do have some sympathy for Tess. Her teleological ethics have led her to do some unconscionable things, but she at least acknowledges that and seeks forgiveness, unlike Chloe, who has the same ethical code as Tess and has done some questionable things herself, yet doesn't hold herself accountable for any misdeeds. In fact, Chloe is willing to let others, specifically Clark, take the blame for her mistakes. I could be terribly wrong, but I actually think that we will be shown within the last few episodes that Oliver's choice to shun a pleading Tess while forgiving a unapologetic Chloe will have dire consequences.

When I say forgive, I don't mean that Oliver or Clark shouldn't hold her accountable for what she has done or shouldn't be weary of her. I think that is what most fans who hate Clark's consistent forgiveness of others have an issue with, because that is what I do as well. I do, however, think that Oliver and Clark, as heroes, should protect her, as well as anyone, despite her previous transgressions if she is in need of it.

[hellokitty]

^^Great post. I completely agree with it.

Oliver told her to never go near him or his friends again and Waller is out to kill Tess because of her betrayal of Checkmate. Who is left for a frightened Tess to seek protection from? Zod. So even if you don't agree from an ethical perspective that Oliver should have shown Tess some sort of empathy, especially since he had to seek forgiveness from Clark literally episodes prior, can you at least appreciate that he was careless and uninsightful in his rejection of Tess?

Ashley that is precisely what I think will end up happening, in the end. I definitely agree with you on the Pandora via a new route too. It bothered me that Oliver, of all people did that, however, as you said, there was most likely a point to it. Especially since it was done so obviously,so heavy handedly that I have to wonder if it will have a pointed ramification for the future events that are lining up right now.