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  • Trickster/Gabriel Discussion

    well according to his speech he said he sculpted the body himself as a form of witness protection.

    now we've seen how insanely powerful angels are, heck zach pulled out sams lungs and gave cancer to dean, and hes just a lower angel, whos to say that archangels cant make themselfs a sculpted body to use. albeit there has to be a downside to it, like maybe you cannot use your full powers.

    but than there was anna, who got her old body back by getting some favours called back. and she was able to be as powerful as the other angels who had a vessel say yes. so i dont see why an archangel cant do this. unless michael is just too powerful to contain in a homemade vessel, etc. theories can go on forever.

    but as cas said, a trickster is NOT that powerful, so obviously gabriel still has his archangel juice. but hes concealing it in a trickster like way to play the role i suppose

  • #2
    Another thing--the Trickster said that the thing that attracted him to the Winchesters was how their family situation so closely parallels his (the Trickster's) family situation. But the events in season 2 (in Tall Tales) where the Winchesters "tricked" him & killed a "copy" of him is what really got him on the Winchesters' trail. And this was way before any seals were broken. So I thought this was another thing that didn't really jive with past events. The same is true about Mystery Spot. If someone wants to say the events of Mystery Spot are what got him interested in the Winchesters, then those events too were before the breaking of the seals and had nothing to do with Sam & Dean saying yes to their respective angels.

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    • #3
      Trickster/Gabriel

      So let me get this right...it was NEVER the trickster to begin with? I need to watch this again but this is what I am gathering?

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      • #4
        I know the feeling I was like 'well if it was never a trickster then why the hell have folk-lore about one?' And why waste three years making us believe it the whole thing to begin with. Now whenever I go back to old episodes i'll be yelling at the screen: it's really Gabriel the whole Trickster thing is bull.

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        • #5
          Cas said that no trickster is as powerful as this one. This trickster defied death numerous times and warped reality as his whim. Heck, he killed Dean off (really he did in mystery spot) and made months/ weeks go by to prove what kind of person Sam would become if Dean stayed alive. Yeah thats some god like power right there.

          So the entire time we werent dealing with the trickster it was Gabriel who, in tall tales, tried to divide the brothers when he had them fighting against each other, made Sam suffer Dean's death over and over again to show him what path he would follow once dean died, only to find out it was all part of the master plan to bring about the true end of the world where both brothers would KILL ONE ANOTHER IN THE EPIC BATTLE THAT DECIDES THE FATE OF THE UNIVERSE!!!!! MY GOD I LOVE THIS SHOW!

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          • #6
            I am sad. WTF Kripke. You make my head sore. He was really one of my favorite characters on SPN and now hes not even real? *cries* I still love you show.

            ----- Added 4 Minutes later -----

            Originally posted by Theshadow129x
            Cas said that no trickster is as powerful as this one. This trickster defied death numerous times and warped reality as his whim. Heck, he killed Dean off (really he did in mystery spot) and made months/ weeks go by to prove what kind of person Sam would become if Dean stayed alive. Yeah thats some god like power right there.

            So the entire time we werent dealing with the trickster it was Gabriel who, in tall tales, tried to divide the brothers when he had them fighting against each other, made Sam suffer Dean's death over and over again to show him what path he would follow once dean died, only to find out it was all part of the master plan to bring about the true end of the world where both brothers would KILL ONE ANOTHER IN THE EPIC BATTLE THAT DECIDES THE FATE OF THE UNIVERSE!!!!! MY GOD I LOVE THIS SHOW!
            RIGHT ON!!!! My head doesn't hurt so bad anymore

            But what with all the lore stuff (Clois4eva89 mentioned)? So they never actually ran into one or was this just fake information?
            Last edited by Lexgirl33; 11-05-2009, 09:26 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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            • #7
              ok i just joined forum just for this, i was a bit confused as well after watching the show. But i gotta say one thing, so i can relieve you all of your headaches . This is the correct thing. Gabriel is not the trickster, he is only disguised as the trickster because he wanted to trick sam and dean to believe that the trickster from (tall tales/mystery spot) was actually there and causing all this weird things going on, such as the hulk crap -lol! He wanted to trick them into saying yes to Michael and Lucifer, because they believed if they said yes, it was just a trick, and it wouldn't be like actually say yes to the 2 arch angels! Sam and Dean thought it would just be like on tv, and if they said yes, they would just see what happened! But apparently it was just a trick! It hard to understand what i am trying to say.

              Gabriel can take the form of the trickster or anybody else! Just like Lucifer did, when he was seeking for his vessel, and he turned into that guys dead wife! And after he turned into Jessica Sam's dead girlfriend or finance or w.e, i forgot ! Gabriel came down after the Apocalypse disguised as the trickster to trick Sam and Dean into accepting their destiny!

              This is what i believe because of this!

              Season 5, Episode 8 – Aired: 11/5/2009
              Changing Channels

              Dean and Sam find themselves mystically trapped in a series of real-life "TV shows" and there appears to be no escape. They believe their old enemy the Trickster is responsible, but discover someone or something else is involved.



              *note - The last sentence up there ^!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Theshadow129x
                Cas said that no trickster is as powerful as this one. This trickster defied death numerous times and warped reality as his whim. Heck, he killed Dean off (really he did in mystery spot) and made months/ weeks go by to prove what kind of person Sam would become if Dean stayed alive. Yeah thats some god like power right there.

                So the entire time we werent dealing with the trickster it was Gabriel who, in tall tales, tried to divide the brothers when he had them fighting against each other, made Sam suffer Dean's death over and over again to show him what path he would follow once dean died, only to find out it was all part of the master plan to bring about the true end of the world where both brothers would KILL ONE ANOTHER IN THE EPIC BATTLE THAT DECIDES THE FATE OF THE UNIVERSE!!!!! MY GOD I LOVE THIS SHOW!
                Or.... what if it was a lame half @ssed attempt on the trickster's part to try and get Sam to move on and accept Dean's death so that he would never bring about the end of the world but he failed, so screw it all, tricky is ready to go down in flames, lol.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by xrayvision
                  Another thing--the Trickster said that the thing that attracted him to the Winchesters was how their family situation so closely parallels his (the Trickster's) family situation. But the events in season 2 (in Tall Tales) where the Winchesters "tricked" him & killed a "copy" of him is what really got him on the Winchesters' trail. And this was way before any seals were broken. So I thought this was another thing that didn't really jive with past events. The same is true about Mystery Spot. If someone wants to say the events of Mystery Spot are what got him interested in the Winchesters, then those events too were before the breaking of the seals and had nothing to do with Sam & Dean saying yes to their respective angels.
                  Actually...Gabriel could have found out that dear old John Winchester was MEANT to break the first seal, and that soon caught Gabriel's attention, and that's probably why he did the things he did to get Sam and Dean's attention.

                  And with "Mystery Spot", perhaps he was trying to show Sam how weak he is with Dean, maybe as a way to mess with his head, knowing that Ruby will probably keep up the "revenge on Lilith" part during season four, and Sam was not strong enough to say "no" to her.

                  So now, it only makes sense, since the Apocalypse has begun, for Gabriel to then want Sam and Dean to both say "yes".

                  But, I must say....I had NO idea that Trickster would be Gabriel. I wonder if we'll ever see a regular Trickster.

                  It does make sense though, that they only killed a copy in "Tall Tales", to show that a stake doesn't hurt him at all.

                  ----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

                  Originally posted by Clois4eva89
                  I know the feeling I was like 'well if it was never a trickster then why the hell have folk-lore about one?' And why waste three years making us believe it the whole thing to begin with. Now whenever I go back to old episodes i'll be yelling at the screen: it's really Gabriel the whole Trickster thing is bull.
                  Because we have no idea WHEN Gabriel left Earth. He could've a long time ago, and THAT'S how the "lore" of the Trickster began.

                  Or maybe there is an actual Trickster, which is what I'm guessing.

                  I mean, the Trickster is a Pagan God, and we have seen Pagan Gods on SPN before. Now, sure, it would be nice if we had a real Trickster, but it's sure a mindblow after that twist.
                  Last edited by Lexgirl33; 11-06-2009, 09:02 AM. Reason: Violation of rule #2

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                  • #10
                    there is an actual trickster, bobby said so himself in tall tales how he kill one before (and he would have recognized this one if it were the same one)

                    so there really was a trickster, but none on this scale of power that this trickster showed, which now we know why

                    and no, i dont think he just took the form of the trickster for this episode, this is referring to an earlier post. i think he came down from heaven during the "great dust up" between lucifer and michael and has been in "witness protection" mode as he called it, till he noticed the signs, and than as he said "you guys messed it up"

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Call_Me_Ishmael
                      It does make sense though, that they only killed a copy in "Tall Tales", to show that a stake doesn't hurt him at all.
                      But why have a copy be impaled by a stake when impaling the real one wouldn't have killed him (as we saw tonight)? Why did he go through the trouble to get their attention & set up the illusion that they tricked & killed him while letting them go (in Tall Tales)? Was that done to test them out and then let them go on their merry way so they could start the process of breaking the seals? It doesn't make sense though. It seems like he's bothered by the whole Apocalypse thing with his brothers (Michael & Lucifer) wanting to kill each other. It's contradictory. He's complaining about the Apocalypse, how his brothers want to kill each other (while he wants them to get along) and how he wants it to end by forcing the Winchesters to say yes. But then, by letting them go without telling them what was really happening back in Tall Tales & again in Mystery Spot, he did nothing when he could have prevented the Apocalypse & the whole fight between his brothers.

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                      • #12
                        I hate retconns... especially when they are this unneccesary. And when they make Angel Gabrielle a thing that kills for fun...

                        All they had to do was say that he was disguised as the Trickster, or that the Trickster was his vessel (because his arch angel status meant he couldn't be harboured by a normal human, but a demi god would do...)

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                        • #13
                          "They believe their old enemy the Trickster is responsible, but discover someone or something else is involved. "
                          That line from the episode description implies that it wasn't the trickster from past episodes but a different entity.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tam123
                            there is an actual trickster, bobby said so himself in tall tales how he kill one before (and he would have recognized this one if it were the same one)

                            so there really was a trickster, but none on this scale of power that this trickster showed, which now we know why

                            and no, i dont think he just took the form of the trickster for this episode, this is referring to an earlier post. i think he came down from heaven during the "great dust up" between lucifer and michael and has been in "witness protection" mode as he called it, till he noticed the signs, and than as he said "you guys messed it up"
                            Maybe perhaps after Bobby killed the real trickster, Gabiel took form and decided to play with them. But yes before they broke the first seal

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                            • #15
                              I honestly think it WAS Gabriel all along, and I like the plot twist of having an arch-angel hanging around since season 2.

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