I feel bad for Sammy - heck, both boys...

[SVfan26]

But you really did bring this on yourself, bud. Choosing a demon over your own flesh & blood.

Dean's words (in the final sequence) were all a huge kick to the jewels, but they were all true and deserved. I expected Bobby to say something about his earlier words, but maybe he should have took the same stance as Dean; not quite forgotten, but definitely not forgiven - at least for awhile.


I just wonder if we'll see a season-long noticeable rift between the boys, or will they gradually mend to back the way they were before S4?

[xrayvision]

I hope there is a mending.

I agree with Dean & what he said. After the "If you walk out that door, don't you ever come back" speech, Dean was devastated & betrayed.

But one problem I had with Dean was not taking responsibility of the current situation. Sure Sam broke the final seal, but Dean started it when he broke the 1st one. Dean didn't have to go to hell. He could have let Sam stay dead so that he wouldn't have gone to hell. But he did something unnatural & got the ball rolling. He should have spoken up & shared the blame when Demon Bobby was yelling at Sam.

[SVfan26]

I can see what you're saying about Dean.

To be honest, the boys' relationship has been one big ball of secrets, lies, and selfish deception since the end of S2; starting with Dean's deal to bring Sam back. Sure, Sam has had the biggest hand in all those things, but Dean has been no saint in his own right.


Hard to put all the blame on one thing other than Azazel, after all, he's the one that killed Mary & gave Sam blood - and got the snowball started rolling down the mountain in the first place.

[supernaturalfan]

I kinda agree with Dean for what he said to Sam, I understand how he could fell betrayed, but Dean needs to remember that Ruby was a demon. She was manipulating sam all this time making him think he was doing the right thing. In Lucifer Rising: Even when Zachariah lock Dean up and Dean made that phone call to Sam he was apologizing on the voice mail. Then when Sam listen to it. Dean was giving Sam down the road. So really it was the demons and angles manipulating Sam pushing him down that road.

[ClarksGal]

I hope there is a mending.

I agree with Dean & what he said. After the "If you walk out that door, don't you ever come back" speech, Dean was devastated & betrayed.

But one problem I had with Dean was not taking responsibility of the current situation. Sure Sam broke the final seal, but Dean started it when he broke the 1st one. Dean didn't have to go to hell. He could have let Sam stay dead so that he wouldn't have gone to hell. But he did something unnatural & got the ball rolling. He should have spoken up & shared the blame when Demon Bobby was yelling at Sam.

I don't really think that Dean's main point was about the apocalypse though. I think what he was saying to Sammy was on more of a personal level. He probably could have handled Sam accidentally releasing Lucifer if it was totally an accident and not based on a choice that Sam made to put more faith in a Demon than he did his own brother. Think about it...what else to these guys have? When it all came down to it, all these boys have had has been their family. When everything else fails, when they've lost faith in humanity, God and been surrounded by horror, they clung to their deepest code: family loyalty. It was their religion. Sam turned his back on that most sacred covenant to listen to a Demon. I think that was the real issue for Dean. He can't trust Sam anymore...his faith in the last good thing is broken. Now what will he cling to to sustain him through everything he's going to go through? Will Sammy redeem himself with Dean? I think this is a very realistic and interesting new chapter in the brothers' relationship.

On another note, did anyone else feel like we had some of the old, tough Dean back? Dean had a pretty emotional year last year, and understandably so (not to mention AMAZING to see Jensen show off his terrific acting skills!!), but he seems to have snapped back to his original Dean form. For that matter, Sam seemed to be the emo one again, after last year they sort of reversed roles a little. Obviously, I've only seen the first episode, so I can't say for sure that's what's going on, but I have to say I think it's great so far!!

[He Who Lurks]

Did Dean do any better though? He put the statements of angels (who clearly demonstrated themselves to be Bad People) and his own prejudices (which have been proven wrong in the past) over the claims of his brother, just like Sam did. Sam said he could handle it, and Dean didn't believe him. Sam said he was doing what he thought was necessary, and Dean didn't believe him. Sam said he trusted Ruby because she had proven herself not only valuable, but she also showed that she cared about Sam. Dean actually did seem to warm up to Ruby after that, only to reverse on it later (with cause).

The whole situation is a case of Poor Communication Kills (I love tvtropes.org). Sam thought about the situation in terms of goals and sacrifices, and Dean thought about it in terms of us and them, and they couldn't get their viewpoint through to the other. Neither were completely right or completely wrong, and they were both being manipulated to evil ends. For the show to blame Sam for something that is clearly everyone's fault is somewhat jarring.

[xrayvision]

I put the blame on both, but more on Sam than Dean because Sam knew he was dealing with demons & knew their true nature. After fighting them all his life he should have known that Ruby had a hidden agenda.

As for Dean & the angels, Castiel was a good guy & helped Dean, but Uriel always rubbed badly on him. Dean learned to be grateful for them pulling him out of hell, though he had a very guilty conscience based on what he did while down there. Some of the things the angels were going to do were questionable (like destroying that town), but some were tests to see what Dean would really do. And Dean's mistrust of them showed that he wasn't willing to put faith in those who claimed to be doing God's work but carried out plans that were clearly not God's will. Sam didn't mistrust Ruby the way Dean mistrusted the angels. And the irony of it is that the more Dean mistrusted the angels, the more obedient he started becoming to God. This was especially apparent in the finale when Zaccariah revealed that they would step out of the way & let the Apocalypse happen. Right then Dean & Castiel knew how screwed up the situation was.

[LuthorKent90]

I understand Sam's situation: Think about it, Ruby came to him when he was in a VERY dark place, with the only thing that seemed to liven him up (and in his eyes offered him a purpose again).. killing the thing that put Dean in hell in the first place- Lilith.
He became obsessed with revenge. It wasn't about choosing a demon over his brother, it was about stopping the apocalypse and saving Dean, again.
Being the only person immune to Lilith's deadly white light, he took on the suicidal mission of defeating her.

We can't forget that Dean was also manipulated and used, by the angels.
Has Dean even told Sam or Bobby that he broke the first seal? So far we've seen nothing of this, unless it's been done offscreen.
He is also hiding things from Sam, but he gives Sam crap for doing the same thing.


Bottom line they're both at fault. They were both manipulated. They both unintentionally started this apocalypse.