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  • #76
    Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
    I don't think they're confused over which group of viewers they want to attract. I think that they are trying to attract the superhero group and ALSO the classic CW audience. The problem is that the superhero group doesn't give two bleeps about the stuff that attracts the typical CW audience. So what you end up with is a fun superhero show with major tonal flaws.
    If that's really the case, then I think that CW has to realize that diversity is a good thing. It's boring for ALL the shows to have the same tonal feeling, from Vampire Diaries, to Beauty and the beast. It just feels like they're clones of each other but with the settings tweaked slightly as to seem like a different story. (even though it feels like the same story told over and over).
    I've noticed that CW keeps on recycling characters and seems to think that just because they gave the character a different name, and different actress that we wouldn't notice.

    For instance, I counted at least 4 female characters who worked for (or ran) a coffee shop on different CW shows... Lana Lang (smallville early seasons), Iris West, Viki (vampire diaries), Hayley in The originals (bar/coffee bar combo)... and I'm guessing there's more in other shows that I hadn't watched before. But I noticed that 3 out of the four women seemed to have all very similar traits.

    Almost like somebody was recycling the same character over and over. It's like when a lazy artist takes an cartoon character, recolors her and gives her a different name.... and they think that's enough to turn her into a different character entirely, even though it's obvious that it's just a recolor of the same character. As a matter of fact I noticed the similarities between Iris West and Lana Lang earlier on in an thread.

    Likewise, I've noticed that CW has a tendency to recycle plots on if it happens to be a favorite of theirs. As an result, you can't help but notice certain plots popping up on different shows that sounds eerily similar to what happened on another CW show. it's like they just had blank plot flash cards like this:
    _____ is worried about what happened the other day, and thinks that he/she shouldn't tell _________ about it because of reason ________. Even though telling ________ would litterally solve said problem or at least move on with the plot faster. When __________ finds out about the fact that _____ didn't tell him/her there's alot of melodrama about trust and teamwork. They may or may not break up if they were in an relationship.
    It's like madlibs, all you have to do is fill in the blanks!

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Aurora Moon
      If that's really the case, then I think that CW has to realize that diversity is a good thing. It's boring for ALL the shows to have the same tonal feeling, from Vampire Diaries, to Beauty and the beast. It just feels like they're clones of each other... all you have to do is fill in the blanks!
      What you've just described is called a "proven business model", and they are absolutely going to hit us over the head with it again and again and again. The only way that they are ever going to change it is if people stop watching or if a new visionary at the top of the food chain decides to start taking some risks.

      ... or if something hits it big in the UK and they feel confident they can rip it off. That's also something American tv likes to do.

      Comment


      • #78
        To me, there's nothing wrong with reusing old ideas or using a proven business model.... provided that you're creative enough to make it seem like a completely new thing instead of a clone.

        Clones all have that same bland, tonal feeling and favor.

        But If it was like a creative writer or artist putting their own spin on a old idea... then it's like somebody making your favorite cookies and kicking it up a notch by putting something extra into the recipe.

        Take fairy tales, for instance. Over decades there's been a thousand re-tellings and a few different re-imaginings of them. We have tons of movies out there based on fairytales. We all know how the stories go, but each movie somehow makes the protagonist a completely different person from the one in the books or the other movies out there. For instance, I was pretty meh towards "Disney's Cinderella" but I loved Ella in "After Ever" despite the fact that the two movies were about the same fairy tale... but they were both telling us the fairytale differently in their own way.

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        • #79
          Don't forget that the CW isn't going to get the top talent. They're going to get the scraps the major networks passed on.

          Comment


          • #80
            And, that's the problem right there.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
              Don't forget that the CW isn't going to get the top talent. They're going to get the scraps the major networks passed on.
              I think The Flash won the casting lottery with T.C. and J.L.M., and it would be hard to find a better young actor than Grant to play Barry Allen. Much of the really good talent on Arrow has left, another reason for the decline of Arrow.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
                The reason they came up with is dumb, but my larger point isn't that there is a reason for it in the plot. It's that they have a reason for wanting it in there that has nothing to do with a failure to execute.

                Deliberate stupidity is really what I am arguing, where the stupidity in question is subjective and based mostly on the premise that people like you and I would never have found any explanation particularly worthy due to an inherent disinterest.
                Deliberate stupidity is still stupidity. And it has failed in its execution, because there is no reason for the characters to act this way.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Dagenspear
                  Deliberate stupidity is still stupidity. And it has failed in its execution, because there is no reason for the characters to act this way.
                  Deliberate stupidity is not still stupidity when taken within the context of what I am saying.

                  And there is a reason for them to act this way. There's also a reason for the writers to want there to be a reason. You just don't buy the reason. Which is fine, but different.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Saluki
                    "doesn't excuse the bad writing"

                    Calling it "bad writing" doesn't make it so. You had your explanation and now have no excuse for clinging to the "bad writing" label.
                    It being bad writing makes it so. I have gotten no explanation as to why the characters would do this.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
                      Deliberate stupidity is not still stupidity when taken within the context of what I am saying.

                      And there is a reason for them to act this way. There's also a reason for the writers to want there to be a reason. You just don't buy the reason. Which is fine, but different.
                      That's because the reason makes no sense. They have no reason to believe this is the right thing to do.

                      Deliberate stupidity is still stupidity if the writing doesn't justify said stupidity. It's just characters being stupid for the sake of plot device.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Aurora Moon
                        If that's really the case, then I think that CW has to realize that diversity is a good thing. It's boring for ALL the shows to have the same tonal feeling, from Vampire Diaries, to Beauty and the beast. It just feels like they're clones of each other but with the settings tweaked slightly as to seem like a different story. (even though it feels like the same story told over and over).
                        I've noticed that CW keeps on recycling characters and seems to think that just because they gave the character a different name, and different actress that we wouldn't notice.

                        For instance, I counted at least 4 female characters who worked for (or ran) a coffee shop on different CW shows... Lana Lang (smallville early seasons), Iris West, Viki (vampire diaries), Hayley in The originals (bar/coffee bar combo)... and I'm guessing there's more in other shows that I hadn't watched before. But I noticed that 3 out of the four women seemed to have all very similar traits.

                        Almost like somebody was recycling the same character over and over. It's like when a lazy artist takes an cartoon character, recolors her and gives her a different name.... and they think that's enough to turn her into a different character entirely, even though it's obvious that it's just a recolor of the same character. As a matter of fact I noticed the similarities between Iris West and Lana Lang earlier on in an thread.

                        Likewise, I've noticed that CW has a tendency to recycle plots on if it happens to be a favorite of theirs. As an result, you can't help but notice certain plots popping up on different shows that sounds eerily similar to what happened on another CW show. it's like they just had blank plot flash cards like this:
                        _____ is worried about what happened the other day, and thinks that he/she shouldn't tell _________ about it because of reason ________. Even though telling ________ would litterally solve said problem or at least move on with the plot faster. When __________ finds out about the fact that _____ didn't tell him/her there's alot of melodrama about trust and teamwork. They may or may not break up if they were in an relationship.
                        It's like madlibs, all you have to do is fill in the blanks!
                        Lana and Iris don't have that many similarities.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Dagenspear
                          That's because the reason makes no sense. They have no reason to believe this is the right thing to do.

                          Deliberate stupidity is still stupidity if the writing doesn't justify said stupidity. It's just characters being stupid for the sake of plot device.
                          We are not talking about the same things and I don't know how to explain myself any better. I'm moving on.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Dagenspear
                            Lana and Iris don't have that many similarities.
                            They're not perfect clones of each other, but they do seem to be following the same formula for their characters. As I said in the thread that I linked to before:
                            Think about it--
                            1) Lana Lang was an waitress at a coffee shop. Iris is an waitress at a coffee shop.

                            2) Both is noted for their "exotic" beauty, as well as their "wonderful personality" which makes them desirable to men everywhere.

                            3) They're the totally unattainable love interest for the main heroes of the show. There's always a reason, something or somebody standing in the way of their love... the love that was never meant to be! Drama ensues as an result...because look how utterly tragic and beautiful the hero is, constantly and creepily obsessing over what he cannot have instead of moving on like a normal person. *rolls eyes*

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Aurora Moon
                              They're not perfect clones of each other, but they do seem to be following the same formula for their characters. As I said in the thread that I linked to before:
                              I haven't gotten the impression that they've made Iris an "exotic beauty" who is desirable to men everywhere. She's had like three guys interested in her romantically all season. That's not much at all. Like, at any given year, any attractive woman probably has like a guy a day think she's attractive and want her. And Iris is someone who is attractive to people. Physically. By traditional standards. And I also don't get the impression they've tried to paint her with having a "wonderful personality". Not that she doesn't. But, I don't think I've heard anyone say that. I also don't get the impression Barry was obsessing over Iris either. I actually like that they talk about this character wise on The Flash, where Barry talks about how he's been stuck with never telling Iris how he felt and stuck feeling insecure about it because of his mother's death. But, I do agree that they pushed that aspect too far. Especially recently. For different reasons to be sure, but it's usually a thing. But it seems strange that you're citing normal person behavior on a TV show about people with super powers. Unattainable love interests are really more a staple of the story of being a superhero.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
                                We are not talking about the same things and I don't know how to explain myself any better. I'm moving on.
                                How could we not be talking about the same thing? I thought we were talking about how it's bad writing to have characters do things that make no sense for the sake of a plot device.

                                Comment

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