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Doctor Who #4x13 "Journey's End"

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  • #46
    Thanks for that gracious post Jeri1250.

    I don't know anything about the older versions of Dr. Who. I've never watched Sarah Jane's show or Torchwood. I'm hoping that has something to do with how lackluster the two part finale was. The more I think about it the more dissatisfied I am. I guess I just felt that out of nowhere Donna downloads the Dr.'s brain and saves the day with ease. It's like a Deus ex Machina in that suddenly some god drops from the sky and everything's all better. *shrug* They just didn't earn it somehow. It's surprising because usually it feels that an episode of Dr. Who builds to the doctor finally working everything out. This just felt contrived to me. Also it undermines everything that charmed me about Donna/Doctor. She's NOT intellectual. She's normal and human and that's what's so special about her. Making her a part time lord... it's like they don't even understand what was so great about her character.

    Rose Tyler. I loved her and her romance with the Doctor. Again, I'd rather her kiss the real doctor goodbye than settle for some false Doctor. The Doctor says that other doctor is him but they didn't seem the same to me. I guess that other doctor was supposed to me more like nine... I would have rather the real doctor say goodbye and that he loves rose and have one last really good snog between the REAL doctor and rose. Then she could go off with that other doctor but not romantically. IMO they have to meet each other and fall in love with each other and have their own story. It's like when Nine regenerated. She didn't just snog him right away. She had to get to know him a little.

    Maybe... if they'd done more with the whisper. There was a lot of whispering this season. Maybe I'll find a good fanfic that makes that whispered word something so cool that I'll do a 180. As it is... I feel that "Turn Left" was my season finale and... maybe I'll find a good fanfic to wrap up series four for me.

    Sorry for the rant. "Turn Left" and the Library episodes got me really hyped up for the finale and... it just didn't measure up to the set up IMO. But I'm glad you and so many others really enjoyed it. I enjoyed aspects of it too... but I believed the world was ending a lot more in "Turn Left" than I ever did in "Journey's End." There just wasn't enough story for all the characters running around.

    ETA: I gave it a 4 by the way. So for all my ranting... I still thought it was a pretty good episode.
    Last edited by ginnyfan; 10-04-2008, 06:46 PM.

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    • #47
      I thought it was awesome, I was really losing interest with all the confusion over the last few episodes, but they sowed it all together like a surgeon.

      I don't want to see Donna go

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      • #48
        I know. I was sooo sad to see her go.
        She came into the series as a total annoyance, yet ended up being quite possibly my favorite companion.

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        • #49
          The episode aired in the US two nights ago, so I'll assume it's safe to post without spoiler tags at this point. That being said...

          Magnificent episode. It actually seemed longer than the 90 minutes of air time. In fact, it seemed to be longer than the 8th Doctor's TV movie. Not without some flaws, but over all, a very solid finale, especially since the show will only have limited production in 2009.

          Some coments on the plot elements:

          Rose and the two Doctors - Firstly, you have to do something with him. Can't have two copies of the Doctor running around, can we? Given the fact that 2.0 "pulled the trigger" on the Daleks this time justified (in 1.0's mind) his essentially banishing him from our universe. If not for that, I doubt that 1.0 would have sent Rose back to the other universe. His feelings for her were still there and still very strong, but his sense of duty compelled him to take action against 2.0. In fact, I think his leaving Rose was more for 2.0's benefit than for Rose's. She wasn't totally happy with 1.0 leaving. As for the whisper, I think he told her his name rather than expressing his feelings. Whatever actually was said, it did get Rose to melt into his arms.

          Donna's fate - She was a pawn in a cosmic game of Chess. She didn't ask for it, but Dalek Kahn (sp?) manipulated her life to put her in the right place at the right time to stop Davros. Every time-sensitive being seemed to be aware of her ultimate fate except for the Doctor. Gramps actually did seem to touch the Doctor's spirit when they were saying goodbye. Sad way to end her run on the show.

          Davros and the Doctor - Such a wonderfully written interaction! To have your worst enemy hold up your life and show you your feet of clay. True to himself though, the Doctor tried to save Davros again, only to have to watch him perish by choice. Remined me a little of the Master's decision, although Davros was a lot more dramatic in his exit. "Destroyer of Worlds" indeed.

          The final scene - I did some reading and I'm pretty sure that was only the second or third time in the entire run of Doctor Who that he's gone off without a companion. I don't think the 8th Doctor took Grace or anyone else with him at the end of the movie. I doubt he'll be alone for long.

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          • #50
            Ok, so I finally, finally saw this!

            It was really good but I actually thought "The Stolen Earth" was better.

            BTW, did no one think that the Companion who actually did die was Jack? I mean, he DID die, he just, you know, came back to life. It did techincally fulfill the prophecy.....

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            • #51
              Terrible... just gahhh! I enjoyed watching it... I did, but the more I look at it as a whole the more crap I think it is.

              All those characters... and in the end not a one did anything. Nothing! There was no point to haveing any of them there after they got the phone call out. That was it, in this episode they were all pointless. And all that wonderful the Dalek actually are powerful and scary and possibly a match for timelords was ruined totally when Donna started making them spin around like tops... lame... lame... lame...

              The biggest problem is at the end... I didn't feel a lick sorry for the doctor. Alone sad in the rain, I shrugged and said "It's your own fault." This all could have been fixed say by having the doctor look at Rose on the beach and say "If I had just one life, I'd want to live it with you, can you please give me that, the knowledge that I will?" Or something... really anything to show how much it hurt to give her up but it was what needed to be done...

              The joy of the show is loving the doctor... I'm just not loving the doctor... I think this is the end for me. I don't want to watch the adventures of the man who keeps kicking everyone who would stay with him out and then whining about it.

              Screw that... I'm out.

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              • #52
                Awww... c'mon now, don't hold back.
                Tell us exaclty how you feel.

                (*I'm just kidding with you.)

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                • #53
                  ... to tell you the truth I was holding back!

                  P.S. Just say no to clone story lines.
                  Last edited by borednow; 10-04-2008, 06:31 PM.

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                  • #54
                    I watched it again and was wondering something. Was Dalek Kahn suposed to be the same one at the end of "Evolution of the Daleks"? I originally thought it was, but the Doctor mentioned to Rose that she'd met him before. The only ones I could think of where she talked to one was either "Dalek" or "Parting of the Ways". Neither of those mentioned a specific name.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Antithesis
                      I watched it again and was wondering something. Was Dalek Kahn suposed to be the same one at the end of "Evolution of the Daleks"? I originally thought it was, but the Doctor mentioned to Rose that she'd met him before. The only ones I could think of where she talked to one was either "Dalek" or "Parting of the Ways". Neither of those mentioned a specific name.
                      Doomsday - Caan's one of the Four Daleks to come out of the Void Ship in front of Rose, Mickey and the Asian fella out of Eastenders.

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                      • #56
                        I was iffed by the 4rth season ender. It was building up to be so good from "The Stolen Earth" and then the last twenty minutes of "Journeys End" it got silly. The Daleks & Davros look like they were gonna be the threat they'd always should've been. The Doctor/Donna bit was just wrecking what could've been a great action finale with tension and drama. Then all these companions come along like some happy family get together was just pushing it too far. Especially all smiling around the Tardis console. The Torchwood cast was wasted in this story too besides Jack. I'm tired of former companions in/out in this series so often, like Rose. The other Doctor clone/twin was just stupid. So Rose gets a boy toy Doctor? The Rose stuff should've stayed the way it was in the 2nd seasons ending. The emotiions from that past episode were good and shouldn't have been looked back on. RTD just can't keep the flow of the episodes to stay the way its started. What look liked it'd be awesome 2 parter got pretty much thrown to shreds after those last twenty minutes. I'd give this a 6/10. Most of it would be for part 1, the story arc overall.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by DK2
                          I was iffed by the 4rth season ender. It was building up to be so good from "The Stolen Earth" and then the last twenty minutes of "Journeys End" it got silly. The Daleks & Davros look like they were gonna be the threat they'd always should've been. The Doctor/Donna bit was just wrecking what could've been a great action finale with tension and drama. Then all these companions come along like some happy family get together was just pushing it too far. Especially all smiling around the Tardis console. The Torchwood cast was wasted in this story too besides Jack. I'm tired of former companions in/out in this series so often, like Rose. The other Doctor clone/twin was just stupid. So Rose gets a boy toy Doctor? The Rose stuff should've stayed the way it was in the 2nd seasons ending. The emotiions from that past episode were good and shouldn't have been looked back on. RTD just can't keep the flow of the episodes to stay the way its started. What look liked it'd be awesome 2 parter got pretty much thrown to shreds after those last twenty minutes. I'd give this a 6/10. Most of it would be for part 1, the story arc overall.
                          I agree... mostly. I think the biggest problem was that "The Stolen Earth" was so good, and built things up so much, that "Journey's End" could never have been as good an episode and so felt a bit underwhelming.

                          I love RTD, but if I remember correctly from reading "The Writer's Tale", he struggled when writing this episode. He himself thought that the Rose and the other 10th Doctor stuff was a bit out of character for her, which it was. But the man had a deadline, and an entire production team waiting for him to finish. That's got to be a lot of pressure.

                          And I'd also agree that Torchwood's and even Rose's involvment was a bit pointless, but I think that was probably done more for ratings and the 'spin-offs coming together' feeling, than actual story purposes.

                          It wasn't a bad episode, just not as good or as epic as "The Stolen Earth" had been. The same thing happened the year before that with "The Last of the Timelords".

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