View Poll Results: Did Al/Miles sabotage Smallville after finding out they wouldn't be in season 8?

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  • Yes, the way this season progressed afterwards showed clear signs of this

    116 56.31%
  • No, I thought the ideas & their execution after the announcement were great

    90 43.69%
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  1. #91
    Custom Title jon-el87's Avatar
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    Yes, but I don't think it was on purpose. Smallville lasted far longer, than anyone could've imagined. AlMiles left the show after seven seasons, after 152 episodes. These were unheard of numbers for a superhero show. Before Smallville, the longest was the old George Reeves series at 6 seasons and 104 episodes. More recent shows:

    Wonder Woman: 3 seasons, 59 episodes.

    The Incredible Hulk: 5 seasons, 82 episodes.

    Superboy: 4 seasons, 100 episodes.

    Lois & Clark: 4 seasons (almost got a fifth), 88 episodes.

    If you had told them (or anyone else), in 2001, that the show would last a decade and consist of nearly 220 episodes, they would've laughed right in your face. At the most, they could hope for 4-5 seasons. But, the show kept getting renewed and renewed. No surprise, by the time they got to the 7th, they were out of ideas. They introduce Kara/Supergirl, only to quickly realize: "we have no idea what to do with her". AlMiles also seemed afraid of changing the status quo. They never wanted to get rid of Lex and Lana, even when the latter clearly had overstayed her welcome. Surely, both actors had announced their intent to leave the show, before S7 went into production. However, instead of writing them out, they started the whole Veritas mess with Lex and then have Lex exit as a cliffhanger (where he knows Clark's secret).

    And that is what they left to the new management. Having missed the last five S7 episodes, Lana was going to be in five S8 episodes (leaving the conclusion of Clana to the new guys). The new guys also had to deal with the Lex cliffhanger and him knowing Clark's secret (they couldn't just sit there with the unresolved cliffhanger and hope MR would one day return (even if they had. The events of the finale would remain largely the same: he shows up for a few minutes and gets his whole memory erased by Tess, as Lex isn't supposed to know). And recasting seemed unthinkable). And had to live with the introduction of Kara, whom they didn't have any idea either what to do with (and since she's Supergirl, she can't develop her costumed identity before Clark).

    It does seem like many of the bad things about S8-10 could've been avoided, had AlMiles made the right/better choices. If they would've had S3 been the exit for Lana (where she moved away to France), we wouldn't have had "Requiem". Had they simply have Lex move away to a private island or something in S7, we wouldn't have had him seemingly die in "Requiem", then brought back in the finale, only to have his whole memory wiped (so he won't know Clark's secret). Had they not introduced Kara, we wouldn't have had "Supergirl" (and Kara's bad departure in "Prophecy"). Even "Henry James Olsen" could've been avoided, by better choices from AlMiles (they could've introduced a different Superman character. Why not Steve Lombard or Ron Troupe (just to name two)?).

  2. #92
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon-el87 View Post
    It does seem like many of the bad things about S8-10 could've been avoided, had AlMiles made the right/better choices. If they would've had S3 been the exit for Lana (where she moved away to France), we wouldn't have had "Requiem". Had they simply have Lex move away to a private island or something in S7, we wouldn't have had him seemingly die in "Requiem", then brought back in the finale, only to have his whole memory wiped (so he won't know Clark's secret). Had they not introduced Kara, we wouldn't have had "Supergirl" (and Kara's bad departure in "Prophecy"). Even "Henry James Olsen" could've been avoided, by better choices from AlMiles (they could've introduced a different Superman character. Why not Steve Lombard or Ron Troupe (just to name two)?).
    Kelly and Brian could have had Lex move to a secret island as well. They didn't have to do what they did.. Kara's involvement didn't have to be dealt with the way it was by K&B as well. Al and Miles didn't have to change anything with Jimmy. That was fine. They didn't have to write the Lana conclusion like that no matter what. Al and Miles aren't to blame for those things.

    God bless you! God bless everyone!

  3. #93
    The artist formerly known as "KryptonSite" KSiteTV's Avatar
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    I know Al & Miles... heck, I talked to Al for a good hour socially about a month ago. They would never, ever have sabotaged Smallville.

    Now, I do think the later seasons that they were a part of suffered a bit because they weren't as involved in the back halves of the seasons, which is where they usually started going off the rails. Season 5, for example, wasn't as good after Episode 13 or so (with a few exceptions) and the same for Season 6 after Oliver left. Season 7 was its own mess with the writers' strike.

  4. #94
    aka EB phoenixnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSiteTV View Post
    I know Al & Miles... heck, I talked to Al for a good hour socially about a month ago. They would never, ever have sabotaged Smallville.

    Now, I do think the later seasons that they were a part of suffered a bit because they weren't as involved in the back halves of the seasons, which is where they usually started going off the rails. Season 5, for example, wasn't as good after Episode 13 or so (with a few exceptions) and the same for Season 6 after Oliver left. Season 7 was its own mess with the writers' strike.
    I have to agree with you Craig. Still, there were times when I thought ... huh? But that's why I like exploring why the writers did what they did. It's fun watching the episodes from an analytical stance and writing about it.

    The continuity on the other hand could have been done better, especially in the last season.

    The thing is, we can criticise or offer our own points of view on how things should be done, but it does make me wonder how the writers feel when they read harsh criticism. Not that I'm saying that people on this site are being unnecessarily harsh.

    It's just, as a writer myself (who is hoping to make a living at this someday), I know some people aren't going to understand why I wrote something the way I did but we can't always explain in exact detail why we made particular choices and hope that the readers/viewers continue to read/watch anyway.

  5. #95
    Battle Troll DJ Doena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixnz View Post
    It's just, as a writer myself (who is hoping to make a living at this someday), I know some people aren't going to understand why I wrote something the way I did but we can't always explain in exact detail why we made particular choices and hope that the readers/viewers continue to read/watch anyway.
    What annoys me - as a consumer of fiction - the most is when I get the feeling that things are made up as they go along. And that's a feeling I got way too often with Smallville. They throw some hints and the beginning of a story arc into the cold water and see if it can swim.

    And I can't believe it's that hard for a room full of professional writers to say at the outset of a season: This is where we want to be at the end of the season and this is what has to happen over the course of that season. And then you fill in the blanks with side stories and hints.

    What you're not doing is inventing three mystical artifacts only to have Clark collect two of them in the very last episode by pure chance (one given to him by Lana for inexplicable reasons, the other "screaming" for him when he put the second in the slot - that didn't happen when he put the first one there!).

    Inviting a canon character to the show (Kara) and not knowing what to do with here before episode five? Seriously?


    If I start reading a fan fiction, I go in there with the good faith in the author that s/he has a plan on where to go with this story.

    That's why I've always only ever suggested plot bunnies *hint hint* because I'm well aware that I could not make a full story out of it.

  6. #96
    Posting Pro Aurora Moon's Avatar
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    I write too, although I'm more of a professional artist than a "true writer". It also occurs to me that TV writers also have to put up with a lot of executive meddling too.

    It happens with movies too. I just recently read this author's frustrating account about how her biography was turned into a movie back in the 80's. The movie screenwriters and directors basically turned her story into a huge joke, and they didn't bother to read her biography at all... they just wanted to make up crap on the spot. They wanted to have a tawdry scene where the teacher would have sex with one of her students...
    Considering this was a movie based on the author's life (she was a ex-marine who became a teacher), the author was naturally horrified and told everyone on the set that she would never do such a thing, and that she wouldn't allow that in a movie based on her life. Her exact words were:
    "One of the writers said to me, 'You're going to have an affair with one of your students in this movie.' I said, 'No I'm not. That didn't happen.' They said 'Yeah, listen, it'll be great.'" The writers seemed genuinely surprised that Johnson didn't want the fictionalized version of herself committing major crimes in a blockbuster movie. "I said, 'It's child abuse, statutory rape, and a felony offense. I would lose my license and go to jail. I do not have any money, but I will sue you if you do this. I don't sleep with children.' They never invited me back to the set."

    The movie was "Dangerous Minds". So I could see something similar happening to the TV writers who worked on the TV series. TV executives busts into the room, and starts demanding that there be more love triangles and sex scenes. Even though it's at such a inappropriate time in the story.

  7. #97
    Battle Troll DJ Doena's Avatar
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    BTW: if you want to see a truly amazing story unfold, I urge you to watch the first four seasons of Babylon 5, the movie In the Beginning and the final episode of the show.

    Then watch it again and discover all the hints dropped throughout the first few seasons you didn't notice because you did not recognize their importance.

    Seriously, even during the fourth(!) re-run I still discovered clues I had not noticed before.

    J. Michael Straczynski had a grand plan and he also planned for contingencies. Actors left whose storylines were not finished and had to be mapped to other characters. The only reason the fifth season is lackluster is because at first the show was to be cancelled after S4 and then was uncancelled. But by then JMS had put much of the stuff planned for S5 into S4.

    In Valen's name!

  8. #98
    aka EB phoenixnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Doena View Post
    What annoys me - as a consumer of fiction - the most is when I get the feeling that things are made up as they go along. And that's a feeling I got way too often with Smallville. They throw some hints and the beginning of a story arc into the cold water and see if it can swim.

    And I can't believe it's that hard for a room full of professional writers to say at the outset of a season: This is where we want to be at the end of the season and this is what has to happen over the course of that season. And then you fill in the blanks with side stories and hints.

    What you're not doing is inventing three mystical artifacts only to have Clark collect two of them in the very last episode by pure chance (one given to him by Lana for inexplicable reasons, the other "screaming" for him when he put the second in the slot - that didn't happen when he put the first one there!).

    Inviting a canon character to the show (Kara) and not knowing what to do with here before episode five? Seriously?


    If I start reading a fan fiction, I go in there with the good faith in the author that s/he has a plan on where to go with this story.

    That's why I've always only ever suggested plot bunnies *hint hint* because I'm well aware that I could not make a full story out of it.
    Oh, do share, Karsten. I'm always willing to take suggestions and see where I go with them.

    With my novel (the one that took me 17 years to finish) I knew where I wanted to go with it and had scenes planned out for years. With my fanfics, I often do have a plan on how I want to end it, but they sometimes go off in different directions.

    As for the writers, well, sometimes things do happen in the course of a season, like for example season four, I believe they had a different arc in mind for Jason, but then Jensen got the role in Supernatural (at least that's what I heard), and in season two, Lucas was supposed to have made more appearances but Paul Wesley was unable to come.

    Aurora's right. It is possible that the powers that be in a series want something different and completely change the direction of the planned arc.

    I remember Dangerous Minds, and thank goodness they didn't go that way.

    All I'm saying is, we don't know what happened behind the scenes so we really don't know why such choices were made. We can criticise, but we're not there. We can only go on rumour and conjecture and in all honesty, is that being fair to the writers? Yes, some things didn't make sense and they can probably see that in hindsight, but this is one thing I enjoy about doing fanfic. I can either try to make sense of it or correct it.

  9. #99
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Doena View Post
    What annoys me - as a consumer of fiction - the most is when I get the feeling that things are made up as they go along. And that's a feeling I got way too often with Smallville. They throw some hints and the beginning of a story arc into the cold water and see if it can swim.

    And I can't believe it's that hard for a room full of professional writers to say at the outset of a season: This is where we want to be at the end of the season and this is what has to happen over the course of that season. And then you fill in the blanks with side stories and hints.

    What you're not doing is inventing three mystical artifacts only to have Clark collect two of them in the very last episode by pure chance (one given to him by Lana for inexplicable reasons, the other "screaming" for him when he put the second in the slot - that didn't happen when he put the first one there!).

    Inviting a canon character to the show (Kara) and not knowing what to do with here before episode five? Seriously?


    If I start reading a fan fiction, I go in there with the good faith in the author that s/he has a plan on where to go with this story.

    That's why I've always only ever suggested plot bunnies *hint hint* because I'm well aware that I could not make a full story out of it.
    I think they set up farely decently what they wanted to do with Kara in the first three episodes of season 7: Giving Clark a more personal bond to Krypton, the crystal and Lex's obsession with her, which was the beginning of Lex's recapturing of his obsession with Clark. The Lex/Kara storyline played out into Arctic. I can agree that it wasn't really developed that well. But I don't see it as not knowing what to do with her.

    God bless you! God bless everyone!

  10. #100
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    I believe the show got alot better after Al and Miles left the show. In my opinion they made alot of bad and meaningless decisions during the 7 seasons they were producers. It may not be their fault that alot of the episodes were pretty nasty, but still the overall timeline made them even more meaningless. Im sorry to say but I think theres more bad episodes than good ones during some of those 7 seasons.

  11. #101
    Forum Regular Luthorism's Avatar
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    I voted no. I don't think they would intentionally sabotage.

    PS: Last time I've visited this forum/website was I think 7 years agı.. Clearly I've missed Smallville!

  12. #102
    Board Master Tabularasa's Avatar
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    In retrospect, when I really started to think about it, I don't think they meant to sabotage the show. They wanted to put a mark on their ending, but they also left a lot of things open for the new showrunners to take and do what they want with it.

  13. #103
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luthorism View Post
    I voted no. I don't think they would intentionally sabotage.

    PS: Last time I've visited this forum/website was I think 7 years agı.. Clearly I've missed Smallville!
    Welcome back! God bless you! God bless everyone!

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