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  1. #1
    The artist formerly known as "KryptonSite" KSiteTV's Avatar
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    "Star City 2040" Countdown/LIVE Discussion Thread!

    Count down to the March 18 episode of Arrow and talk about it LIVE as it airs!

    Pics can be found HERE: http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-st...ar-takes-over/

  2. #2
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    Surprised to Nysa in this episode thus answering the question of Miaís training.

  3. #3
    10 years at KSite costas22's Avatar
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    My comment after one of the earlier S7 episodes in relation to the flash forwards:

    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    Obviously it's either some kind of metaphorical death or these scenes are from a future that will never actually happen once the present changes. Can't believe they're still teasing Felicity dying, 3 years after the last debacle.
    Whether it's Berlanti, Kreisberg, Guggenheim, Mericle or Schwartz, it's nice to know how wonderfully predictable this show is. 7 years later and they're still terrified of upsetting Felicity fans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    My comment after one of the earlier S7 episodes in relation to the flash forwards:



    Whether it's Berlanti, Kreisberg, Guggenheim, Mericle or Schwartz, it's nice to know how wonderfully predictable this show is. 7 years later and they're still terrified of upsetting Felicity fans.
    Yeah they still are terrified of upsetting Felicity fans.

    I wish they went with the original Felicity became a full out villain working with the bad guys with the whole clues that were left were actually by Oliver as a back up plan to stop Felicity and the rest of the future bad guys in case he died. Or at least something along those lines.

    Instead of the bait and switch we got of "Oh look we might actually make Felicity into a villain, be sure to get your hopes up" only to go "No not really guys."

    One more thing that makes zero sense to me is we now apparently have two John Jr.s running around given Flashpoint made Sara Diggle into John Jr. and I'm guessing Ben Turner's kid who Diggle and Lyla take also takes the name of John Jr. if I'm understanding this correctly? WT?

  5. #5
    10 years at KSite costas22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    One more thing that makes zero sense to me is we now apparently have two John Jr.s running around given Flashpoint made Sara Diggle into John Jr. and I'm guessing Ben Turner's kid who Diggle and Lyla take also takes the name of John Jr. if I'm understanding this correctly? WT?
    I looked up some articles to find out about this storyline. Apparently in the flash forwards John Jr has introduced himself as Diggle's adopted son? And from what I read, Ben Turner called his boy "Connor". So it does look like Diggle will have 2 sons named John Jr and his adopted son is the one who will become the future Connor Hawke.

    I don't get why the writers are doing this. After Flashpoint, things seemed pretty clear. Sara became John Jr and he would go on to become the Connor Hawke we saw in the LoT episode 3 years ago. Now they are giving this storyline to Ben Turner's son, making me wonder what it means for the first John Jr. Maybe he will die at some point? Or maybe there will be another timeline alteration and he will become Sara again?

    It seems like a needless complication to me. Mind you, I do give Beth Schwartz credit for bringing Ben Turner back. Guggeheim killed him off in one of the Arrow comics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    I looked up some articles to find out about this storyline. Apparently in the flash forwards John Jr has introduced himself as Diggle's adopted son? And from what I read, Ben Turner called his boy "Connor". So it does look like Diggle will have 2 sons named John Jr and his adopted son is the one who will become the future Connor Hawke.

    I don't get why the writers are doing this. After Flashpoint, things seemed pretty clear. Sara became John Jr and he would go on to become the Connor Hawke we saw in the LoT episode 3 years ago. Now they are giving this storyline to Ben Turner's son, making me wonder what it means for the first John Jr. Maybe he will die at some point? Or maybe there will be another timeline alteration and he will become Sara again?

    It seems like a needless complication to me. Mind you, I do give Beth Schwartz credit for bringing Ben Turner back. Guggeheim killed him off in one of the Arrow comics.
    Well that clears it up for being right on two sons and the fact they do have some needless, pointless mess going on for no good reason.

    Yeah me to on giving Beth credit for that. Guggeheim killed Joe Wilson off in one of the Arrow spin off novels and brought him back in his own show along with in the Arrow Vengeance novel had it where Slade put the mask on the Lian Yu's beach instead of Oliver putting it on the stake. Not shockingly for how that guy ignores his own canon.

  7. #7
    We Will Avenge!!! darkphoenix21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    I looked up some articles to find out about this storyline. Apparently in the flash forwards John Jr has introduced himself as Diggle's adopted son? And from what I read, Ben Turner called his boy "Connor". So it does look like Diggle will have 2 sons named John Jr and his adopted son is the one who will become the future Connor Hawke.

    I don't get why the writers are doing this. After Flashpoint, things seemed pretty clear. Sara became John Jr and he would go on to become the Connor Hawke we saw in the LoT episode 3 years ago. Now they are giving this storyline to Ben Turner's son, making me wonder what it means for the first John Jr. Maybe he will die at some point? Or maybe there will be another timeline alteration and he will become Sara again?

    It seems like a needless complication to me. Mind you, I do give Beth Schwartz credit for bringing Ben Turner back. Guggeheim killed him off in one of the Arrow comics.
    Youíre probably right about the first John Diggle Jr. turning back into Sara Diggle... the kid is going to need a lot of counseling (she was born a girl, turned into a boy and turned back into a girl) Either way the John Diggle Jrs. have to be settled cause itís just strange all around.

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    John Jr. has not been in the future scenes. It's Connor Hawke. He's adopted by Diggle and Lyla and works for a an organization similar to ARGUS, but nicer. Connor never said he's John Jr. in 2040.

    John Jr. going as Connor Hawke was ONLY in one Legends episode of an alternate timeline of 2046 that they said was never set in stone to happen. (Where Oliver was also old and missing an arm.)

  9. #9
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    My comment after one of the earlier S7 episodes in relation to the flash forwards:



    Whether it's Berlanti, Kreisberg, Guggenheim, Mericle or Schwartz, it's nice to know how wonderfully predictable this show is. 7 years later and they're still terrified of upsetting Felicity fans.


    But, but, remember that one time where "Felicity" died in Legends of Tomorrow?

    It just amuses me how Felicity seems to be the only one immune to death in these shows.

  10. #10
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    This was a necessary and overdue episode in terms of context for the flashforwards, so now we have some idea of what transpired from Mia's birth to the future. It's also amusing to think Mia inherited Oliver's stubbornness and stoicism, while William inherited Felicity's quirky babbling as well as her tech skills lol.

    There's a bit of a "Mia Smoak can do anything!!!" vibe because she's Oliver and Felicity's kid. Hence having her trained by Nyssa so there's no doubt about her badass status -- a fate I had once wished upon little William Clayton, but as part of his rise as a supervillain: Son of Al Sahhim and Heir to the Demon *cackles maniacally*. Oh well, there's always Earth 157 for that.

    Future William and Connor needed similar character focus ... maybe we'll still get it, maybe not.

    The whole 'Connor as adopted Diggle son' angle was a bit confusing, but then I remembered Laurel had arranged for Bronze Tiger to see his own son in a previous ep. At first it just looked like part of BT's own redemption arc --- but it could also mean something is going to happen where a redeemed BT makes a sacrifice and Diggle has to adopt that kid as a debt of honour.

    At this point I'm not putting any stock into Flash news headlines or events on LoT about what is "supposed" to happen. I see little reason why such events would be locked in or set in stone, esp. in this current Arrowverse. The future is in flux, more than it has ever been before. Even this flashforward future may still be altered or blown sky high thanks to Crisis, what Barry did/will do, what Team LoT always does, or what Nora has done just by being in the present, etc.

    Considering Felicity created the AI that would eventually doom the city, she doesn't come out smelling like a rose in this future, assuming it doesn't change. (Comics fans: Batman and the Brother Eye story arc . )
    Last edited by President_Luthor; 03-19-2019 at 09:15 PM.

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    In my opinion, I don't think there are two John Jrs. I think Lyla had an affair with Ben Turer (Bronze Tiger), got pregnant, then lied to John saying it was his baby and therefore named him as if he were his legitimate son. Then after learning he wasnt the father, he decides to adopt him anyway.

  12. #12
    10 years at KSite costas22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkphoenix21 View Post
    Youíre probably right about the first John Diggle Jr. turning back into Sara Diggle... the kid is going to need a lot of counseling (she was born a girl, turned into a boy and turned back into a girl) Either way the John Diggle Jrs. have to be settled cause itís just strange all around.
    If this does end up happening, I'll start rewatching the shows just so I won't miss Diggle's reaction when he finds out about all the switcheroos.

    Quote Originally Posted by K. taylor View Post
    John Jr. has not been in the future scenes. It's Connor Hawke. He's adopted by Diggle and Lyla and works for a an organization similar to ARGUS, but nicer. Connor never said he's John Jr. in 2040.

    John Jr. going as Connor Hawke was ONLY in one Legends episode of an alternate timeline of 2046 that they said was never set in stone to happen. (Where Oliver was also old and missing an arm.)
    I am guessing that's why most people just assumed that this Connor Hawke is also known as John Jr. Because that was his storyline in the LoT episode and he was portrayed by the same actor. I would also add that the LoT episode at no point suggested that "Connor" was Diggle's biological son, but I could be wrong about that.

    Anyway, you are probably right. Maybe in this timeline, Connor Hawke is a different character to John Jr and the writers have their reason for not wanting Diggle's biological son to become the next Green Arrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSecretVampire View Post
    But, but, remember that one time where "Felicity" died in Legends of Tomorrow?

    It just amuses me how Felicity seems to be the only one immune to death in these shows.
    Best episode in LoT history. Even though Felicity's "badass hero" voice was kind of lame.

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    You're correct. The LoT episode never says it's a biological son. I remember Sara saying "You're John's son," but that doesn't make anyone John Jr. It was assumed that was John Jr. just because that was the only kid the audience knew in 2016.

    That ep was "Star City 2046" and the city was quite wrecked, so at least some of what's happening in 2040 could still line up with it. In that version, Oliver was still alive but missing an arm. The minutia for the future might be fluid, but it seems Felicity's Archer Program and the Ninth Circle are fixed points that will wreck Star City no matter what else happens.

  14. #14
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    In the LoT episode Connor Hawke was identified as John Jr. He just no longer answered to that name.

    In the Arrow episodes with the FF's we just assumed that Connor Hawke (since it was the same actor) was still John Jr. But then it turned out in the Arrow continuity, Connor is just the adopted kid never named John Jr and JJ who still exists (so far, I would love if he got turned back into Sara) never grew up to become the Connor Hawke we saw on LoT since that time line was avoided in the first place.

    The coincidence that the two Connor Hawke's (one that WAS Diggle's biological son and one that is his adoptive son) just happening to be identical, that's a load of stupidity we are supposed to swallow because some idiot decided it was unrealistic that Connor Hawke would be that dark skinned and be the biological child of Lyla and DIggle (this was what the actor playing Connor said in an interview)

    Of course if the writers understood genetics at all they would have realized that that's not at all how skin tone works and that Lyla and Diggle's son very easily could have had a darker toned skin despite his mom being white. So here we are.

    I do love the idea of JJ being turned back into Sara and also along with that change, undoing the dystopian future of Star City. Cause yeah, that future sucks even if I have come to love some of the characters living there.

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