Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

XRayVision - Some Friendly Advice

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    x-ray vision, i don't know why your even bothering to answer these people! if i were you, i would be extremely offended that someone had picked me out and tryed to patronise me by suggesting i need some 'friendly advice', and to 'lighten up a little bit'... it's rude, and it's a personal attack

    i read almost all your posts and 9 times out of ten i agree with you. there are plenty of us out there. it's not homework, to some of us inconsistencies are irritating and therefore stand out... this isn't a fault or something that needs dumbing down... without criticism people don't try to better themselves... if everyone is constantly telling you your great and your not then you wont get any better

    it's like those hideous pop idol auditions where they actually think they have done a good job! the fact is, no one has ever told them they aren't before, so they have continued thinking that this is what people want to hear and see... well it's not!

    it's the same with smallville... the writers/directors have settled into a rhythm this season because the season has been well recieved. but they aren't working hard to improve on their stories or their writing and it's all because of people like MBrittan making people feel like they are grumpy or moany or unpleasant if they point out this faults

    BS... pick the show to death, then maybe some of the bigger things will actually get better!

    Comment


    • #17
      ^^^ lmao so true thanks for posting that hopefulsuicide

      Comment


      • #18
        "I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses." Kepler

        “Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.” Churcill


        Keep up your great posts xrayvision. I take a critic over a conformist anytime.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by xrayvision
          Look, all they needed to do was have one scene in which a young Swann (of the age just before he decided to give his company away as Chloe said in Rosetta) passes by Jor-El and sees something that he knows is alien about him (probably his powers, technology, or Kryptonian writing) just so they have that as his inspiration to go looking for messages in space. They could have had a different actor (one who looks like Christopher Reeve) play Swann and it would have been very convincing and tied up the entire Swann arc. I've been asking for something like this for a very long time.
          Why is it such a bad thing to infer? If the show took the time to address every single plot hole you pointed out, they'd never have time to tell any original stories. They'd constantly be back-tracking, making sure they didn't leave anything unexplained. I think they try to explain a lot on Smallville. But I don't think it's the end of the world if they leave a few "holes" for us to fill in ourselves. Remember, this is Clark's story, not Swann's. Not Lionel's. Not Lex's. Those characters are plot devices, used to help advance Clark's story. The more time you spend in flashback scenes involving Swann and Jor-el, the less time you spend in the present telling Clark's story. I think it is enough to just accept some things as having happened "off screen". I don't think it's such a bad thing to use your imagination. Plot "holes" don't bother me as much as flat-out contradictions. Those DO require more explaining. For example, in Promise when Lionel threatened to kill Clark (if Lana didn't marry Lex) after accepting the responsibility of protecting him. That was a contradiction that demanded an explanation and they did (albeit maybe not to everyone's satisfaction).
          -M-

          ----- Added 8 Minutes later -----

          Originally posted by Theshadow129x
          i agree with Xrayvision to be honest. the thing is that since the beginning of the series they've said they always knew where the story is going and that from al/miles standpoint everything would be wrapped up at the end so there wouldnt be plot holes. they did that with veritas but it failed at this. Veritas left more questions to it. To say Lionel was in Smallville the day of the meteor shower for the traveler wasnt true because as season 2 has shown he didnt know about aliens in smallville until hamilton brought it to his attention. thats when he started digging. also they say he knew all along about krypton and all that crap but season 3 showed that he was eager to find out where Clark was and what he could do. those are huge plot holes and it all just doesnt fit. if he wanted Clark to trust him after all those years then why did he almost kill him after all those years? its just really dumb. i feel 100% the same as Xrayvision. i personally think they came up with the veritas storyline after they watched heroes. lol im just saying.
          Again, I think this is one of those situations where you have to infer. I don't think it's a stretch to assume Lionel would have come to Smallville on the day of the first meteor shower. Think about it. He had already established a relationship with Swann who had been monitoring activity in outer space. He may not have known the Traveler would arrive on that day, but he did know SOMETHING extraterrestrial in nature was happening (the meteor shower). I'm sure he did look for a ship, hoping the Traveler DID come but obviously, the Kents beat him to it. The fact that Clark looked human in appearance probably threw off suspicion as well. Only after he met Dr. Hamilton in season 2 did he revisit the idea that something else COULD have come down in that meteor shower.
          -M-

          ----- Added 14 Minutes later -----

          Originally posted by xrayvision
          I wish they would have kept the Kawatche caves set instead of keeping the clocktower set from Birds of Prey that became Ollie's place. Then they could have used the caves to continue the mythology about Clark's arrival, Kem-El's involvement (he should have been explained as the one who told the original Kawatche tribe of Naman), and the rest. They could have made changed happen in the caves as Clark progressed on with his destiny to guide him and had Lex follow the changes and become more curious with Lionel's involvement in Clark's life. That would have avoided the Traveler mess.
          Here we go again. What's wrong with a little mystery? Why do we have to know the name of the Kryptonian who visited the Kawatche or the date he/she visited? Does not knowing really diminish the story? On the contrary. I think it's cool that they DIDN'T give that away. It COULD have been Kem-El, but it doesn't have to be. And speaking of Kem-El, was HIS character really neccessary? Funny how you trash the show for inventing some storylines but other mysterious storylines (like Kem-El's) you embrace. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
          -M-
          Last edited by MBrittan; 05-18-2008, 12:07 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

          Comment


          • #20
            People dont get storytelling. the best kind of storytelling there is, is the kind where you dont have to think because every question every loose end has been tied up. you cant simply infer or guess what happened because it wasnt on screen because if you do then all you get is speculation not actual storytelling. thats whats the problem with Smallville. it spends too much time leaving things hang and brings up new stories they forget out the stuff that are still hanging.

            I cant write a book with nothnig but questions and publish it because all people will do is tear my book to shreds about plot holes and inconsistencies. Writing a tv show is no different. to write a story about a young superman isnt hard as we've seen in the earlier seasons but when you go far into the series and try to redo plot lines that were already written you get a big mess that is called season 7.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Hopefulsuicide
              x-ray vision, i don't know why your even bothering to answer these people! if i were you, i would be extremely offended that someone had picked me out and tryed to patronise me by suggesting i need some 'friendly advice', and to 'lighten up a little bit'... it's rude, and it's a personal attack

              i read almost all your posts and 9 times out of ten i agree with you. there are plenty of us out there. it's not homework, to some of us inconsistencies are irritating and therefore stand out... this isn't a fault or something that needs dumbing down... without criticism people don't try to better themselves... if everyone is constantly telling you your great and your not then you wont get any better

              it's like those hideous pop idol auditions where they actually think they have done a good job! the fact is, no one has ever told them they aren't before, so they have continued thinking that this is what people want to hear and see... well it's not!

              it's the same with smallville... the writers/directors have settled into a rhythm this season because the season has been well recieved. but they aren't working hard to improve on their stories or their writing and it's all because of people like MBrittan making people feel like they are grumpy or moany or unpleasant if they point out this faults

              BS... pick the show to death, then maybe some of the bigger things will actually get better!
              How is it a personal attack? I just told him to relax and allow himself to enjoy the show. It sounds like he's taking it way too seriously and therefore, agonizing over it instead of enjoying it. Based on my limited experience with XRay, it sounds like there's more about the show he DOESN'T like (than does). Watching the show sounds like an almost painful experience for him now. If that's the case, why even bother? Why not just move on to something more enjoyable? That's not a personal attack. It's an honest question. I've had shows I've given up on the past. I didn't agonize over it, I just stopped watching when it no longer met my expectations. I think in XRay's case he has this "ideal" he wants Smallville to be and it angers him that it's not meeting with his expectations. I've got news for you. No show is ever going to meet with everyone's approval. Even the best shows are disliked by someone. As for me making XRay "feel grumpy or moany or unpleasant if he points out Smallville's faults", what about the reverse? What about the people who like it for what it is? Aren't THEY being made to feel "grumpy or moany or unpleasant", having to read XRay's harsh criticisms of a show they enjoy? If XRay can criticize Smallville, why can't someone defend it? Is XRay infallible?
              -M-

              Comment


              • #22
                He's entitled to his opinion just like you are to his. dont call him out on the boards and tell him to relax. thats why we have private messaging but dont call him out and make suggestions because thats just wrong.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Theshadow129x
                  People dont get storytelling. the best kind of storytelling there is, is the kind where you dont have to think because every question every loose end has been tied up. you cant simply infer or guess what happened because it wasnt on screen because if you do then all you get is speculation not actual storytelling. thats whats the problem with Smallville. it spends too much time leaving things hang and brings up new stories they forget out the stuff that are still hanging.

                  I cant write a book with nothnig but questions and publish it because all people will do is tear my book to shreds about plot holes and inconsistencies. Writing a tv show is no different. to write a story about a young superman isnt hard as we've seen in the earlier seasons but when you go far into the series and try to redo plot lines that were already written you get a big mess that is called season 7.
                  I couldn't possibly disagree more. I don't like having everything spoon fed to me (as a viewer or reader). I like being made to think. I find it almost offensive when the writer of a movie or book feels like he/she has to explain every single little thing to me. It's like a knock on the audience's intelligence. One of their jobs as a storyteller is to spark your imagination. If you don't want to think, watch South Park or Family Guy. Just so long as the essence of the main characters (in this case, Clark) is maintained, I think they've done their job. If they were to suddently start having Clark ignoring people in peril or killing his enemies, THEN I think I'd start to have some problems with the show. But think of it this way. If Clark doesn't even know the answer to all of these questions, why should we? Does he know which Kryptonian visited the Kawache? Does he know what (if any) face-to-face interactions Swann may have had with Jor-el? No. But that doesn't effect the true essence of his character. I don't think it's necessary to obsess over every little "hole" you can think of. I guarantee you, if you were to create a list of 100 holes you thought Smallville had, I could think of another 25-50 that you didn't. It's impossible to fill in every hole. But that's OK.
                  -M-

                  ----- Added 6 Minutes later -----

                  Originally posted by Theshadow129x
                  He's entitled to his opinion just like you are to his. dont call him out on the boards and tell him to relax. thats why we have private messaging but dont call him out and make suggestions because thats just wrong.
                  Trust me, I know how message boards work. I've been posting online for 12 years now (althought I've just recently started posting here). The purpose of a message board is for people to exchance ideas. This isn't a monologue. It's a dialogue. We don't live in a bubble. If you're going to speak out about something (in a very public way), you have to expect there are going to be people who are going to "call you out" from time-to-time. XRay sounds like an intelligent guy. I don't think he's as offended by what I said as you are (because he knows it wasn't really a personal attack at all). If he's not bothered by it, why should you be? Let him speak for himself. He seems MORE than capable of that. What kind of message are YOU sending him? That he needs you to protect him?
                  -M-
                  Last edited by MBrittan; 05-18-2008, 12:35 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Here's the thing. if you are gonig to tell a story and tell everyone you know where the story is going and the end is going to be the same regardless then how can you change the characters mindset , their premise, their purpose, and feelings and still come out with a story that has the same ending that you originally intended? you cant! thats the thing about story telling that they tried to do in smallville. they changed all the characters around half way through and even dumbed most of them down like Clark just to keep the storytelling continue. Inconsistant storytelling at that. You might not want to be spoon fed everything but there needs to be reasoning behind every plot thats in a story. things cant just happen in storyies for the sake of things happening there needs to be action and then a reaction. cause and effect. season 7 has shown things thats are completely illogical. the finale showed me once and for all that they had no real end set in mind for Lex or the show as it just ended. you cant write a story that way. there needs to be explanations in a story. even murder mysteries have explanations and they fill in the holes. its that simple.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Theshadow129x
                      Here's the thing. if you are gonig to tell a story and tell everyone you know where the story is going and the end is going to be the same regardless then how can you change the characters mindset , their premise, their purpose, and feelings and still come out with a story that has the same ending that you originally intended? you cant! thats the thing about story telling that they tried to do in smallville. they changed all the characters around half way through and even dumbed most of them down like Clark just to keep the storytelling continue. Inconsistant storytelling at that. You might not want to be spoon fed everything but there needs to be reasoning behind every plot thats in a story. things cant just happen in storyies for the sake of things happening there needs to be action and then a reaction. cause and effect. season 7 has shown things thats are completely illogical. the finale showed me once and for all that they had no real end set in mind for Lex or the show as it just ended. you cant write a story that way. there needs to be explanations in a story. even murder mysteries have explanations and they fill in the holes. its that simple.
                      You know as well as I do where this story ends. With Clark moving to Metropolis, working at the Daily Planet, and becoming Superman. With Clark moving away from Lana and towards Lois. That's what they meant when they said they knew where the story was going. Life's a journey, not a destination. Finding out what led up to Clark becoming Superman is what's fun about Smallville. Finding out how Lex went from good to evil is what's fun about Smallville. Finding out what went wrong between Clark and Lana (when they seemed perfect for each other) is what's fun about Smallville. I think the show does a wonderful job of humanizing these characters. They're much, much deeper characters than their counterparts in the comic books. People aren't "all good" or "all bad". People are who they are because of the experiences that have shaped their lives. People become jaded (like Lex has). It doesn't happen overnight. It's a gradual process. Lex didn't start out homicidal. He slipped further and further into darkness throughout the 7 years of the show. In the beginning, Clark was basically trusting of everyone (because he didn't have a reason not to be). But throughout the show, his experiences taught him that not everyone CAN be trusted so he's more cautious of people's motives than ever before. Look at Lana. She was the ever-happy cheerleader in the beginning. Through her association with Clark (his lying about his secret) and Lex (his criminal activities), even SHE has become jaded. She's a darker character than she was at the start of Smallville. Even Chloe has grown. She was the gossip queen at the beginning of the show. Now she's a skilled reporter with mad computer hacking skills and she's a "sidekick" for Clark and his superhero friends. If she knew at the beginning of the show what she knows now, she would have plastered Clark's, Bart's, Oliver's, Victor's, and AC's faces all over the front page of the paper, outing them to the world. But she's grown up. Matured. She now realizes the wisdom of keeping some things secret. I think the show has done a much, much better job than you give it credit for.
                      -M-

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by MBrittan
                        How is it a personal attack? I just told him to relax and allow himself to enjoy the show. It sounds like he's taking it way too seriously and therefore, agonizing over it instead of enjoying it. Based on my limited experience with XRay, it sounds like there's more about the show he DOESN'T like (than does). Watching the show sounds like an almost painful experience for him now. If that's the case, why even bother? Why not just move on to something more enjoyable? That's not a personal attack. It's an honest question. I've had shows I've given up on the past. I didn't agonize over it, I just stopped watching when it no longer met my expectations. I think in XRay's case he has this "ideal" he wants Smallville to be and it angers him that it's not meeting with his expectations. I've got news for you. No show is ever going to meet with everyone's approval. Even the best shows are disliked by someone. As for me making XRay "feel grumpy or moany or unpleasant if he points out Smallville's faults", what about the reverse? What about the people who like it for what it is? Aren't THEY being made to feel "grumpy or moany or unpleasant", having to read XRay's harsh criticisms of a show they enjoy? If XRay can criticize Smallville, why can't someone defend it? Is XRay infallible?
                        -M-
                        the point is that you have singled x-ray out... and there are plenty of people that agree so i don't see why you had to direct is specifially towards him

                        of course you can defend the show but to make a whole thread to dispute one posters opinion is a little personal IMO

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by MBrittan
                          You know as well as I do where this story ends. With Clark moving to Metropolis, working at the Daily Planet, and becoming Superman. With Clark moving away from Lana and towards Lois. That's what they meant when they said they knew where the story was going. Life's a journey, not a destination. Finding out what led up to Clark becoming Superman is what's fun about Smallville. Finding out how Lex went from good to evil is what's fun about Smallville. Finding out what went wrong between Clark and Lana (when they seemed perfect for each other) is what's fun about Smallville. I think the show does a wonderful job of humanizing these characters. They're much, much deeper characters than their counterparts in the comic books. People aren't "all good" or "all bad". People are who they are because of the experiences that have shaped their lives. People become jaded (like Lex has). It doesn't happen overnight. It's a gradual process. Lex didn't start out homicidal. He slipped further and further into darkness throughout the 7 years of the show. In the beginning, Clark was basically trusting of everyone (because he didn't have a reason not to be). But throughout the show, his experiences taught him that not everyone CAN be trusted so he's more cautious of people's motives than ever before. Look at Lana. She was the ever-happy cheerleader in the beginning. Through her association with Clark (his lying about his secret) and Lex (his criminal activities), even SHE has become jaded. She's a darker character than she was at the start of Smallville. Even Chloe has grown. She was the gossip queen at the beginning of the show. Now she's a skilled reporter with mad computer hacking skills and she's a "sidekick" for Clark and his superhero friends. If she knew at the beginning of the show what she knows now, she would have plastered Clark's, Bart's, Oliver's, Victor's, and AC's faces all over the front page of the paper, outing them to the world. But she's grown up. Matured. She now realizes the wisdom of keeping some things secret. I think the show has done a much, much better job than you give it credit for.
                          -M-
                          okay maybe i gave a bad example but the reasons behind a characters purpose needs to make sense. sometimes the things in smallville happen just to happen with a lame ass explanation to back it up. i mean for goodness sakes Al/Miles said that they arent worried about continity they are just trying to write the next script. the thing is that when you are trying to tell a story you have to care about continuity because without that you basically arent telling a story you are just letting things happen just to let them happen. thats a problem.its just liek star wars. people loved the original trilogy. it was such a classic that you could have left them at the way they were because it answered ( at the time) all teh questions we ever needed answered.

                          when the prequel trilogy came along it added stuff to the story that was inconsistent with the explanations that were given in the original trilogy that people said the story telling simply became an after thought and it became more of a cash cow to draw upon the success of the original in the series.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by MBrittan
                            Why is it such a bad thing to infer? If the show took the time to address every single plot hole you pointed out, they'd never have time to tell any original stories. They'd constantly be back-tracking, making sure they didn't leave anything unexplained. I think they try to explain a lot on Smallville. But I don't think it's the end of the world if they leave a few "holes" for us to fill in ourselves. Remember, this is Clark's story, not Swann's. Not Lionel's. Not Lex's. Those characters are plot devices, used to help advance Clark's story. The more time you spend in flashback scenes involving Swann and Jor-el, the less time you spend in the present telling Clark's story. I think it is enough to just accept some things as having happened "off screen". I don't think it's such a bad thing to use your imagination. Plot "holes" don't bother me as much as flat-out contradictions. Those DO require more explaining. For example, in Promise when Lionel threatened to kill Clark (if Lana didn't marry Lex) after accepting the responsibility of protecting him. That was a contradiction that demanded an explanation and they did (albeit maybe not to everyone's satisfaction).
                            -M-

                            I don't think it's bad to infer some of the smaller, non-mythos stuff. But when it comes to the mythos aspect of the show, they really have to clear stuff up. If they can have a scene where Jimmy & Chloe are dancing like in some spy movie, then they should certainly have enough time to explain some of the most important stuff, like what happened on Krypton and how Kem-El (or whoever was the 1st to visit Earth & Smallville) knew that Naman (Clark) would show up one day and the details of it. If it was time travel, then a scene with Kem-El actually observing Clark from the background would have been very sweet and immensely appreciated by the viewers/fans.

                            Originally posted by MBrittan
                            Here we go again. What's wrong with a little mystery? Why do we have to know the name of the Kryptonian who visited the Kawatche or the date he/she visited? Does not knowing really diminish the story? On the contrary. I think it's cool that they DIDN'T give that away. It COULD have been Kem-El, but it doesn't have to be. And speaking of Kem-El, was HIS character really neccessary? Funny how you trash the show for inventing some storylines but other mysterious storylines (like Kem-El's) you embrace. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
                            -M-
                            Because people who watch the show for the mythos and who are comic book fans want to know. In comics there are origins and facts revealed that if withheld, would make the story very confusing. Since this show is based on characters from the comics, they need to follow some of the same guidelines. Also, by setting it in stone, it could help prevent contradictions from happening. Had they given us the details of Krypton's destruction, then maybe they would have gone back and changed it from a result of war to a result of a natural disaster (a supernova of the Kryptonian sun). The show uses different writers, and by not setting stuff like this in stone, one writer writing about stuff like Krypton's destruction has no idea what another one who previously wrote about Krypton's destruction actually intended. And that's when conflicts happen.

                            Going back to the caves set--the set was purely a Smallville set and heavily involved in the Smallville mythos. It should have been kept so that the caves wouldn't have to be written out of the show. Instead, they trashed that set and held onto the clocktower set from Birds of Prey, which they kept in storage for almost as long as Smallville was around and used it as Ollie's apartment. This show is about Clark, not Ollie/Green Arrow, and by sacrificing the caves set when they could have kept it and moved it into the area they stored the clocktower set, they held Ollie in a higher regard than a major part of the mythos of the show's own hero (Clark).

                            Had they used the caves throughout the seasons (even throughout season 7) as the vehicle in which characters learned about Naman, this show would have been consistently more interesting.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Hopefulsuicide
                              the point is that you have singled x-ray out... and there are plenty of people that agree so i don't see why you had to direct is specifially towards him

                              of course you can defend the show but to make a whole thread to dispute one posters opinion is a little personal IMO
                              I "singled him out" because he wrote the posts I was responding to. That's usually how it works...
                              -M-

                              ----- Added 12 Minutes later -----

                              Originally posted by Theshadow129x
                              okay maybe i gave a bad example but the reasons behind a characters purpose needs to make sense. sometimes the things in smallville happen just to happen with a lame ass explanation to back it up. i mean for goodness sakes Al/Miles said that they arent worried about continity they are just trying to write the next script. the thing is that when you are trying to tell a story you have to care about continuity because without that you basically arent telling a story you are just letting things happen just to let them happen. thats a problem.its just liek star wars. people loved the original trilogy. it was such a classic that you could have left them at the way they were because it answered ( at the time) all teh questions we ever needed answered.

                              when the prequel trilogy came along it added stuff to the story that was inconsistent with the explanations that were given in the original trilogy that people said the story telling simply became an after thought and it became more of a cash cow to draw upon the success of the original in the series.
                              If I'm following what you're saying (and XRay), you guys aren't big on the individual episodes which don't contribute to the big story arc for the season. For example, the beauty queen episode this season. You probably didn't like the vampire episode in season 5. Or the Krypto/Shelby episode in season 4. My answer to that (I guess) is that not every episode has to be epic. Think about your own life. Not every week has something "big" happen in it. Let's face it, there are some weeks that are actually pretty dull. Of course the weeks which contain a wedding, a birth, a break-up, a death, a birthday, or something like that are going to stand out more. But those things wouldn't be "special" if they happened all the time. The growth in an individual's life (or in Smallville's case, Clark's) is much more gradual. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you're going to have much more "down" time than you will "epic" moments. It's ok for a show like Smallville to "take a break" from the major story arc throughout the season. It doesn't mean they're not honoring the major storyline. It just means there's more going on than just that. Think about your own life again. Could you take any given year of your own life and boil it entirely down to one "arc"? It's kind of silly when you think about it. Life (and the portrayal of it on television) is more complicated than that.
                              -M-

                              ----- Added 33 Minutes later -----

                              Originally posted by xrayvision
                              -M-

                              I don't think it's bad to infer some of the smaller, non-mythos stuff. But when it comes to the mythos aspect of the show, they really have to clear stuff up. If they can have a scene where Jimmy & Chloe are dancing like in some spy movie, then they should certainly have enough time to explain some of the most important stuff, like what happened on Krypton and how Kem-El (or whoever was the 1st to visit Earth & Smallville) knew that Naman (Clark) would show up one day and the details of it. If it was time travel, then a scene with Kem-El actually observing Clark from the background would have been very sweet and immensely appreciated by the viewers/fans.



                              Because people who watch the show for the mythos and who are comic book fans want to know. In comics there are origins and facts revealed that if withheld, would make the story very confusing. Since this show is based on characters from the comics, they need to follow some of the same guidelines. Also, by setting it in stone, it could help prevent contradictions from happening. Had they given us the details of Krypton's destruction, then maybe they would have gone back and changed it from a result of war to a result of a natural disaster (a supernova of the Kryptonian sun). The show uses different writers, and by not setting stuff like this in stone, one writer writing about stuff like Krypton's destruction has no idea what another one who previously wrote about Krypton's destruction actually intended. And that's when conflicts happen.

                              Going back to the caves set--the set was purely a Smallville set and heavily involved in the Smallville mythos. It should have been kept so that the caves wouldn't have to be written out of the show. Instead, they trashed that set and held onto the clocktower set from Birds of Prey, which they kept in storage for almost as long as Smallville was around and used it as Ollie's apartment. This show is about Clark, not Ollie/Green Arrow, and by sacrificing the caves set when they could have kept it and moved it into the area they stored the clocktower set, they held Ollie in a higher regard than a major part of the mythos of the show's own hero (Clark).

                              Had they used the caves throughout the seasons (even throughout season 7) as the vehicle in which characters learned about Naman, this show would have been consistently more interesting.
                              Three things here. Actually four (I'm a huge comic book fan myself so you don't have to explain how that stuff works. I've been collecting since I was in junior high school. Superman and Batman have always been my favorites).
                              #1 I think you may have forgotten something VERY important which may account for at least SOME of your problems with the show. CLARK HASN'T GONE THROUGH HIS TRAINING YET. Don't forget, Clark didn't get the "whole story" in the movies until his fortress was built and he started playing back those memory crystals. This Clark Kent hasn't done that yet. Once he does, I think you'll start to see some of your questions answered, like what REALLY happened to Krypton.
                              #2 Smallville was never intended to be an exact match for the comic books. It is a reinvention of sorts. They've take a lot of liberty in changing things around and I think for the most part, people haven't minded. Just think about all of the OTHER changes they've made that HAVEN'T attracted much attention...
                              -Pete Ross being an African American
                              -Lana Lang being part Asian
                              -Mr. Myxiplyk being a human
                              -Lex and Clark knowing each other (and becoming friends) as young men rather than first meeting as adults. (same for Lois Lane)
                              -Johnathan dying at a younger age (and not being referred to as "Pa Kent")
                              -Clark meeting Perry White while he was still in high school - and Perry being a drunk
                              -"Krypto" (Shelby) getting powers from meteor rocks rather than actually being super powered
                              -Combining the three stones of knowledge to form the fortress rather than a crystal sent along with Clark in his ship
                              *I could go further but I suspect I've made my point. Smallville has ALREADY made SEVERAL changes that people don't really question. It's a reinvention so if things aren't exactly as they are in the comics, that's OK. As a comic fan, you should know they always hit the "reset" button every so often in the comic book world anyway. They seem to have a major "Crisis" every decade or so so they can start over and change things somewhat. So I question whether or not there really is one set way it should be. Look at Kara (Supergirl) for evidence of that. How many times has HER story been retold? Is she Linda Danvers? Mae? Kara? I've lost track...
                              #3 I think the reason the caves aren't around is pretty obvious and it has nothing to do with Ollie's apartment. It's because of the fortress. For all intents and purposes, the fortress now fulfills the same purpose as the caves once did. To have both would almost be redundant. BTW, I like Ollie's character. I didn't think he would "fit" in Clark's world at first but I've found that I've really enjoyed his role in the show an awful lot. I like how he seems to be pushing Clark in the direction of using his powers on a bigger scale.

                              **By the way XRay, if I HAVE insulted you in any way, I do apologize. Although I disagree with you on several points, I do find you VERY interesting to talk to. It's nice to be able to discuss the show with someone who follows it as closely as I do.
                              Last edited by MBrittan; 05-18-2008, 05:26 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by MBrittan
                                Three things here. Actually four (I'm a huge comic book fan myself so you don't have to explain how that stuff works. I've been collecting since I was in junior high school. Superman and Batman have always been my favorites).
                                #1 I think you may have forgotten something VERY important which may account for at least SOME of your problems with the show. CLARK HASN'T GONE THROUGH HIS TRAINING YET. Don't forget, Clark didn't get the "whole story" in the movies until his fortress was built and he started playing back those memory crystals. This Clark Kent hasn't done that yet. Once he does, I think you'll start to see some of your questions answered, like what REALLY happened to Krypton.
                                #2 Smallville was never intended to be an exact match for the comic books. It is a reinvention of sorts. They've take a lot of liberty in changing things around and I think for the most part, people haven't minded. Just think about all of the OTHER changes they've made that HAVEN'T attracted much attention...
                                -Pete Ross being an African American
                                -Lana Lang being part Asian
                                -Mr. Myxiplyk being a human
                                -Lex and Clark knowing each other (and becoming friends) as young men rather than first meeting as adults. (same for Lois Lane)
                                -Johnathan dying at a younger age (and not being referred to as "Pa Kent")
                                -Clark meeting Perry White while he was still in high school - and Perry being a drunk
                                -"Krypto" (Shelby) getting powers from meteor rocks rather than actually being super powered
                                -Combining the three stones of knowledge to form the fortress rather than a crystal sent along with Clark in his ship
                                *I could go further but I suspect I've made my point. Smallville has ALREADY made SEVERAL changes that people don't really question. It's a reinvention so if things aren't exactly as they are in the comics, that's OK. As a comic fan, you should know they always hit the "reset" button every so often in the comic book world anyway. They seem to have a major "Crisis" every decade or so so they can start over and change things somewhat. So I question whether or not there really is one set way it should be. Look at Kara (Supergirl) for evidence of that. How many times has HER story been retold? Is she Linda Danvers? Mae? Kara? I've lost track...
                                #3 I think the reason the caves aren't around is pretty obvious and it has nothing to do with Ollie's apartment. It's because of the fortress. For all intents and purposes, the fortress now fulfills the same purpose as the caves once did. To have both would almost be redundant. BTW, I like Ollie's character. I didn't think he would "fit" in Clark's world at first but I've found that I've really enjoyed his role in the show an awful lot. I like how he seems to be pushing Clark in the direction of using his powers on a bigger scale.

                                **By the way XRay, if I HAVE insulted you in any way, I do apologize. Although I disagree with you on several points, I do find you VERY interesting to talk to. It's nice to be able to discuss the show with someone who follows it as closely as I do.
                                You haven't insulted me. This is an interesting discussion. I just don't know how much I'll be able to reply in the next few days with projects and studying for a final I have to get done for my grad classes.

                                About #1: The very thing that has made watching this show harder for me is the promise of getting to see his training being broken. In Fallout he said he would begin after all the Phantom Zone prisoners were defeated. I really hoped we would see him ask some questions and get some info by now. It's a big problem with the show. Before I go any further, I have to stress this: In no way do I want his training to be anything like what it was in the movie where he enters the Fortress & 12 years later comes out as Superman. That just says Superman is a product of Jor-El, which is absolutely not the case. Instead, the training process could have spanned over the last few years starting in season 5 or 6 where he would gain experience in fighting super criminals from the Phantom Zone, Brainiac, Zod, Aethyr, Nam-Ek, etc through seasons 7 & possibly 8 where as I strongly suggested he split off his Kal-El side for an entire season and fight him. This is the route I'm taking with my fanfic episodes and it's coming out quite good. I started making my season 7 before Smallville's season 6 ended and it has so far resulted in Lex seeing Clark's Kal-El side in costume and knowing he's Naman (like how in the real season 7 Lex was looking for the Traveler). But because in my fanfics Lex saw Clark & the suited Kal-El at the same time, he knows that Clark is not Naman. This is the path my fanfics will continue on once I get a chance to go back. Had the show actually done this, then Lex would have been in pursuit of Kal-El while Clark and Kal-El battled each other and Clark would be concerned for having his powers exposed.

                                About #2: I actually enjoy some of the changes that they made. The thing I loved most about this show other than Clark's journey in becoming Superman was Clark & Lex being friends and how their friendship would evolve into a bitter rivalry. So I liked a lot of these, though there are some I didn't really prefer. If they would have had an event like the Crisis, which I suggested a few time on these forums, then I could understand a reboot. But Veritas wasn't the result of that. As long as there is a reason for a retcon (time travel, multiple earths diverging & emerging, etc), I would have no problem buying it. But things like Lionel knowing Clark would show up the day he did (which Swann didn't even know) that were never explained and leave deep questions make it hard for me to enjoy the story.

                                About #3: I know the caves had nothing to do with Ollie's apartment. I was just saying that if they could have kept the clocktower set from Birds of Prey so long without trashing it, then they should have given the same, if not more respect to the Kawatche cave set. The caves were actually important for the show, while the show could have done without the clocktower apartment. My main reason for believing this is the lack of utilizing the Fortress of Solitude since it was created. We only saw it in Arrival, Hidden, Solitude, Reckoning, Vessel, Zod, Fallout, Kara, Blue, Gemini, Persona, Traveler, and Arctic. That's 13 episodes out of the 64 episodes that have taken place since its creation. Even worse is that besides allowing him to come back to life at the cost of Jonathan Kent's life and allowing him to travel back in time, the Fortress has served no significant purpose in his life. Most of the time, Clark is either abusing it or making a mistake with it (i.e. letting Brainiac corrupt it like he did in Solitude and Vessel or letting Zor-El take it over). Since the FOS hasn't appeared in the show much (only twice in season 6), I think it was a mistake to get rid of the caves so early. They could have provided the mythos element that was missing by misusing or not featuring the FOS. This is my opinion. I think instead of having Veritas & the Traveler, they could have done something else with Lex getting more and more info on Naman from the caves thanks to new symbols popping up as Clark goes through various milestones in his life. Clark could have even used the cave paintings as a guide throughout his life, which I was hoping he would (like in season 2). Lionel's death could have also been better had the cave been used more. I noticed a slight tone in Lex's final conversation with Lionel that is somewhat similar to what I have planned for the fanfic episode I'll be writing where Lionel dies in my timeline. Any readers of that fanfic will see why the elements I've been suggesting for the past few years would have made Lionel's death so much more amazing. I really think the location of the Eradicator is another thing that should be documented in the caves. And I seriously hope we see the Eradicator before the show is over. I really think the Kawatche caves attracted more fans to the show and would have made a seriously positive contribution over the past few years.

                                My main desire about this show is for it to be as great as possible and believe the past few seasons were not really close to their full potential. Maybe it's because they're trying to please all demographics, but I don't think that's possible. I think by now, they have to pick and choose a demographic and run with it. Those who are really fans may stick with the show regardless. I think right now they should focus more on the comic book fan demographic as it gets closer to the Superman era for Clark. That also includes being careful and maybe even hiring some comic editors to review the episodes of the show and prevent contradictions & confusing storylines from happening.
                                Last edited by xrayvision; 05-18-2008, 07:49 PM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X
                                😀
                                🥰
                                🤢
                                😎
                                😡
                                👍
                                👎