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  • XRayVision - Some Friendly Advice

    XRay,
    Lighten up a little bit. You're being waaay too analytical with regard to the inconsistencies of Smallville. It's a television show, meant to entertain. To read some of your reactions, you would think Smallville some some kind of homework assignment for you. Given the vigor with which you tore apart the episode "Quest", it's hard to even imagine why you even bother watching a show you sound like you hate. I was just going to comment on how much I enjoyed Quest. I really like those shows/movies with a treasure-hunting theme to them. With clues, relics/artifacts which lead to a treasure or revelation. I thought the three stones of knowledge from season 4 was brilliant (especially how clever the map leading to the air stone was - how it was actually a tree, not a river). I thought the cryptograph idea was really clever. I thought the fact that the "key" to controlling Clark was right under Lex's nose for the entire 7 years was REALLY clever. I've recently gone back to watch previous seasons of Smallville on DVD (paying particular attention to scenes which take place in that room of the Luthor mansion) and I've even caught myself pausing and "zooming in" on the fireplace and to my surprise, the clockmaker's logo was always there! It wasn't something they added just for the sake of the Veritas storyline. I thought Quest was the best of season 7 and maybe one of the best of the entire season (I also enjoyed Run, Justice, and Sacred). So just a bit of friendly advice. Relax. Enjoy the show. Resist the urge to "nit pick" every little thing.
    -M-

  • #2
    Yeah, I know the logo was always there. The symbol was retconned into the story though, otherwise they wouldn't have all these inconsistencies had this been planned all along.

    It just bothers me that a show I liked so much has been torn apart by such bad writing. They keep trashing Clark and tearing down the character that had been carefully built up during the early years.

    Sometimes it seems like they're insulting us and think that we won't remember their previous explanations. I seriously hope the new powers that be are much better than Al/Miles.

    I'm not sure if you saw Arctic yet, but that episode really was a letdown for many longtime fans of the show who had been waiting to see how Clark & Lex would end up.

    Comment


    • #3
      Regarding 'The Friendly Advice'

      I agree with what you're trying to say to "xrayvision","MBrittan" . He doesn't seem to be hearing you, though. It IS the entertainment 'factor' we should be concerning ourselves with afterall. Any fictional story that interests me, whether I read it in a book or watch it as a movie or on TV, I do it to be entertained. If it begins to ANNOY me, I leave it alone. I expressed my feelings on a similar topic in another 'thread'. So, I'd like to say it again here hoping to 'bridge a gap', so to speak.

      I only learned about the 'Details' of every episode and story arc from the beginning of the series after watching it on DVD. I only started Faithfully watching Smallville half way through the 5th Season. I fell in LOVE with it! So, I had to play 'Catch-Up' with the seasons on DVDs. I had a 'Crash Course' in Smallville. It was quite an adventure. It was an emotional roller-coaster and I was Thrilled to ride it. I'm now TOTALLY emotionally Invested in this series. I don't think I could ever abandon it. It may disappoint now and again, but it also continues to surprise me.

      IMHO, the series has continued to grow and IMPROVE while it builds a more solid origin story for Superman. I once read the Superman comics, but only after I'd seen the first Superman movie. Clark Kent became more humanized and accessible emotionally as a fictional character. I cared about him for the first time. Whereas before, he was too stoic and TOO Powerful. When I saw he had vulnerabilities like the rest of us, but moreso, as well as how his parents had raised him, Clark became a 'sweetheart', and I understood his devotion to protecting Humanity, but that could not have been an easy decision even with all of his power. His 'journey' in Smallville has shown me/us this several times over. All of the hardships, mistakes, obstacles, and sacrifices Clark had to endure are the life-lessons that equipped him with the ability to be Well-Balanced as Superman.

      He experiences Failure even as Superman, but he had to have an ever-present Reason to keep going no matter what. His 'super' abilities set him apart, but his values and integrity centered in the core of his being is what made him extra-special above all the rest. Clark becomes an 'Iconic' superhero who seems 'PERFECT' through and through. Smallville has been showing us that he's NOT, but got put on that pedestal by learning to make choices that, eventually, became a part of who he was. So, All of that has made the series something I'll faithfully and anxiously look forward to seeing as long as it's on the air.

      On Smallville, Yes, Clark still has some Major Steps to make before he gets to the point of being ready to drape himself in Superman's cape, but Season 8 should give him the time. Some of the major characters that have been a part of his life since the beginning of the series have grown up, just as he has, and Must leave so that he can move forward. In particular, his childhood sweetheart, Lana Lang, has served her purpose in his life and she will not be an integral part of his Adult life, so it's time for her to say 'good-bye'. Lex absolutely became his archenemy and his most frequent sparring partner, but he was Not a Constant presence in his everyday life, and neither was Kara. Of course, I think his mom should always be there and accessible to him when he needs her. Again, IMO, they're still pretty much 'on track' with the story they're trying to tell. I only hope TPTB will do him justice and do it well up until the time the series ends.

      Thanks for giving me the opportunity to share my feelings about Smallville to any 'naysayers' during this critical time. I'M Still being 'Entertained'. I KNEW I couldn't have been the only person who still sees this series as a success. I feel so much better now.
      Last edited by Imzadia; 05-17-2008, 04:16 PM. Reason: correction

      Comment


      • #4
        There is such a thing as "suspending disbelief" in movies and television. Story-telling isn't always going to be 100% without error. With regard to the Veritas storyline, I thought it was an intriguing way of tying up a series of "loose ends" with regard to the guest stars on the show over the past several seasons (just as "Justice" was helpful in bringing together the various super heroes that had popped up). Season 3 introduced Virgil Swan. Season 4 introduced the Teagues. Season 6 introduced the Queens. All three families were wealthy and extremely powerful in their own way. Together with the Luthors, one trait they all share is curiosity. It makes sense that they'd be interested in learning all they could about extraterrestrial life, especially since they had the resources (money) to dedicate to that end. As is common in situations where powerful entities are all after the same thing, they sometimes combine their efforts. Better to ensure you don't get "cut out" of the big prize, even if it means you have to share whatever it turns out to be. Surprised you didn't see a Swann/Teague/Queen/Luthor alliance coming? Don't be. That's one thing that CAN be easily explained. It's a secret society. You're not SUPPOSED to be aware of it. It isn't how the members interact with each other publicly that's important. It's how they interact privately. Public displays of animosity can, in fact, be done intentionally to throw off suspicion. And even though each of the member families are supposed to be working together as part of Veritas, it doesn't mean they don't each have their own separate agendas. There's always going to be that Alpha Dog who wants to take control of every situation (in this case, Lionel Luthor). Anyway, I'm starting to ramble so I'll stop. But I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think the Veritas storyline was all that far-fetched at all.
        -M-

        Comment


        • #5
          But in this case, it's not even close to 100% without error. There are tons of errors and plenty of questions that have come up and never answered.

          See, I'm also a fan of Supernatural, and IMO the writers of that show are doing a spectacular job. The continuity is great and the episodes are coherent without leaving important questions to be answered. I felt the same about the first 3 seasons of Smallville. The writing was superb, Clark was comparable to his comic book counterpart, and the progression of each season was great.

          Season 1 started out with Clark finding out he was an alien, saving Lex, and battling all sorts of freaks. It also had Lex as of X-Ray speaking to Roger Nixon and having him investigate--something that came back at the end of the season when Nixon spied on the Kents. It also started with Lex and his disdain for his father and trying to prove himself to Lionel. It ended with Lionel firing everyone to get Lex to move back to Metropolis (hence that power struggle thing between the 2).

          Season 2 started out with Clark's ship being lost and Pete finding it and his secret and Dr. Hamilton finding the ship and showing it to a blind Lionel. From there Lionel took a deep interest in Clark and the stuff with the caves happened and Clark met Swann. The season ended with Lionel taking the caves from Lex and trying to make his own key to find its secrets. The mythos elements of the cave and Clark's ship and Swann were continuously flowing throughout the season and in the end Clark's learning of the Kryptonian language led to him being considered "of age" by Jor-El to begin his quest for the stones.

          Season 3 started with Clark in Metropolis under the influence of red-k after making a mistake and blowing up his ship, which caused Martha to miscarry. Jonathan made a deal with Jor-El and this deal kept resonating throughout the season (in Hereafter when Jonathan had a heart attack, in Resurrection when he had heart surgery, in Legacy when Jor-El told him he was waiting, and in Covenant when Jor-El had enough of waiting and sent Lindsay Harrison as Kara). Lex's insanity seen in Exile flowed throughout the season and climaxed in Shattered & Asylum. Immediately resulting from that was Lex's thirst to acquire his lost memories, which continued in the 2nd half of the season. The vial of Clark's blood in Exile and Phoenix also was a recurring theme in Resurrection, Crisis and several other episodes. So was Lionel's continuing interest in Clark and the caves. Chloe's arrangement with Lionel was another big plot.

          Season 7 didn't have such a good flow. We got Bizarro (who was a great villian), who then just disappeared until Gemini. We then got a Julian clone arc that just led to nowhere (killed by Lex and no follow-up by Lionel, Lois, Clark or Chloe for facts). The same happened after Lionel's death. We had an interesting character with Dr. Knox, but never saw him again either. We also had interesting tidbits of life on Krypton in Kara and Lara that culminated into the events in Blue. But this had nothing to do with the Veritas storyline that permeated the last 7 episodes. There was no Julian in those last episodes, no Zor-El, no Lara, no Curtis Knox, and not enough Brainiac as there should have been. The season had too many things going on and they didn't come together. And it left too many unanswered questions that could have been avoided had they used something else other than Veritas.

          None of the other shows I watch have this problem. House is a show that's brilliantly written. I also like Supernatural's writing. As much as I disliked most of season 6, I didn't think it did as bad a job of being a coherent season. I blame it mainly on the Veritas retcon. And I'm unsatisfied that a character I loved throughout my life (Superman/Clark Kent) is so ignorant, pathetic and even disrespectful with only a season left until he supposedly becomes Superman.

          I can understand Clark making mistakes as long as he's trying like he did in Shattered when he did everything in his power to try to save Lex from being mind-zapped. But Clark now just lets the world go to hell and tries to save it after it's too late. He needs reassurance from Chloe to go and act. This is after Jonathan died, after Lionel died, after he was trapped in the Phantom Zone, after Lana was put into that comatose state, after Zor-El nearly killed him, after Brainiac went back in time to try to kill him, etc. We were promised Clark's training as soon as the last phantom was killed. That officially happened in Persona and we haven't seen any training.

          I guess I'm just an optimist, waiting for things to turn around and become good again (which I thought would have been this season). Just like I watch the Knicks knowing that they're horrible and suck and will keep losing, but that they will eventually turn things around. I'm hoping the same for the show that I spent too much time watching and posting about.

          Comment


          • #6
            You have good points xrayvision. The only thing I would disagree with besides the fact that I enjoyed the Veritas storyline is that Clark did start his "training" after the last phantom was destroyed. Jor-El told him that taking care of Kara was part of his training, and he's been trying to do that all season.

            Comment


            • #7
              I actually enjoyed the beginning of the Veritas storyline. But once time traveling was involved (causing new entries in Swann's journal) and all sorts of questions went unanswered, I thought of it as a mistake. They ignored all sorts of things like explaining that Jor-El sent Swann several more messages that would have surely popped up in Clark's conversation with Swann in Rosetta or at least offscreen in their emails. Even Krypton's destruction was retconned within the same season!!! From an explanation of war being the cause in the early part of the season to a natural disaster (the red sun exploding) in Apocalypse. I even wrote a theory I based off my fanfic Krypton to explain that one.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by xrayvision
                I actually enjoyed the beginning of the Veritas storyline. But once time traveling was involved (causing new entries in Swann's journal) and all sorts of questions went unanswered, I thought of it as a mistake. They ignored all sorts of things like explaining that Jor-El sent Swann several more messages that would have surely popped up in Clark's conversation with Swann in Rosetta or at least offscreen in their emails. Even Krypton's destruction was retconned within the same season!!! From an explanation of war being the cause in the early part of the season to a natural disaster (the red sun exploding) in Apocalypse. I even wrote a theory I based off my fanfic Krypton to explain that one.

                I don't have a problem believing that Swann wouldn't reveal everything Jor-el sent him. At first, Swann didn't even know how Clark was going to react to him. He could have shut him out completely. It makes sense that he wouldn't want to give it to Clark all at once. "Your birth father sent a message which I've intercepted and oh, by the way, Brainiac is going to try to kill you before you come to earth four years from now". How well do you think THAT would have been received? As Clark's protector (in a sense), it was Swann's responsibility to A) Gain his confidence; and B) get involved ONLY if and when the situation warranted. You're probably going to say, "Why didn't he tell Clark before he died then?" If you believe that Lionel murdered Swann, he obviously wouldn't have had the chance.
                -M-

                Comment


                • #9
                  My question is why would Jor-El reveal such information--especially how most of it was so dangerous? I understand that he wanted people on Earth to deliver his son from evil and why he would send that first message. But it went against Jor-El's nature of not wanting to involve humans to reveal so much information.

                  The only way that this can be turned around to make sense is if Swann is given far more importance than he's been given so far. And I even provided an excellent way for this to happen:

                  Post your wildest theories, speculation, musings about what's going to happen on the show. ALL threads containing spoilers must be marked with the word SPOILER in the subject line.


                  This could have been done earlier (like in the beginning of the season) to avoid more conflict problems. This theory stems from one of the fanfic episodes I wrote where I gave the same explanation of Swann:

                  The KryptonSite/KSiteTV forums are a place originally created to discuss the WB/CW series Smallville which expanded to cover all kinds of TV, movies, and more!


                  So having all those messages sent to Swann is actually something they can redeem/explain if they explain Apocalypse as Clark saving Swann, and it would also explain the intra-season retcon of Krypton's destruction.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by xrayvision
                    My question is why would Jor-El reveal such information--especially how most of it was so dangerous? I understand that he wanted people on Earth to deliver his son from evil and why he would send that first message. But it went against Jor-El's nature of not wanting to involve humans to reveal so much information.

                    The only way that this can be turned around to make sense is if Swann is given far more importance than he's been given so far. And I even provided an excellent way for this to happen:

                    Post your wildest theories, speculation, musings about what's going to happen on the show. ALL threads containing spoilers must be marked with the word SPOILER in the subject line.


                    This could have been done earlier (like in the beginning of the season) to avoid more conflict problems. This theory stems from one of the fanfic episodes I wrote where I gave the same explanation of Swann:

                    The KryptonSite/KSiteTV forums are a place originally created to discuss the WB/CW series Smallville which expanded to cover all kinds of TV, movies, and more!


                    So having all those messages sent to Swann is actually something they can redeem/explain if they explain Apocalypse as Clark saving Swann, and it would also explain the intra-season retcon of Krypton's destruction.
                    Let me put it to you this way. If Jor-el could pinpoint which family would "find" his son and raise him, is it really all that hard to believe he could direct his transmissions to one particular human? In fact, if Jor-el decided that the Kents would be the family to raise his son as early as the 50s (when he met Hiram Kent), is it really all that hard to believe he could have learned about Swann on that same visit? Just some food for thought.
                    -M-

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MBrittan
                      Let me put it to you this way. If Jor-el could pinpoint which family would "find" his son and raise him, is it really all that hard to believe he could direct his transmissions to one particular human? In fact, if Jor-el decided that the Kents would be the family to raise his son as early as the 50s (when he met Hiram Kent), is it really all that hard to believe he could have learned about Swann on that same visit? Just some food for thought.
                      -M-
                      Well it wouldn't have happened in the 50's since Swann was either a very young kid or wasn't born yet. Plus, Swann was in New York. All of Jor-El's business has been in Kansas---Smallville, Kansas. And I'm pretty sure after his Relic visit that his next visits all took place in the cave.

                      Look, all they needed to do was have one scene in which a young Swann (of the age just before he decided to give his company away as Chloe said in Rosetta) passes by Jor-El and sees something that he knows is alien about him (probably his powers, technology, or Kryptonian writing) just so they have that as his inspiration to go looking for messages in space. They could have had a different actor (one who looks like Christopher Reeve) play Swann and it would have been very convincing and tied up the entire Swann arc. I've been asking for something like this for a very long time. Something that explained why Swann ended up with the key in Legacy. I always thought there was something more between him and Jor-El (which is why I explained Swann as being Kal-El-2 in my fanfic). They couldn't have one damn scene with them the entire season to bring that to a close.

                      Here is a thread that I posted quite a while ago asking for something like this:

                      The KryptonSite/KSiteTV forums are a place originally created to discuss the WB/CW series Smallville which expanded to cover all kinds of TV, movies, and more!


                      It makes me cringe how they wasted time with episodes like Fierce, Blue, Wrath, Sleeper, etc and didn't have one scene containing what I explained above. Clark was not even interested enough to ask Jor-El questions about Krypton's demise (about Zod's role, Zor-El's role, Brainiac's conversion, the experimentation of the Bizarro phantom, etc). Fans of comic books like myself want explanations to things, not unexplained holes throughout the series that have to be filled with unofficial theories at best. Since the main character of this show is based off a comic book character, I expect important questions would be answered. If they don't want to answer them, then they should have chosen something else as the subject matter of the show. Can you imagine if things like Krypton's demise or Bizarro's origin were treated the same way in the comics that they have in this show? Fans would be pissed and readership would drop.

                      The show clearly has a limited amount of time to show everything. Since that's the case, the people in charge have to do a better job at showing necessary things (related to Clark & Krypton) vs. unnecessary things (Lana getting Clark's powers, supermodels showing up in town trying to steal money, etc).
                      Last edited by xrayvision; 05-17-2008, 10:43 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        i agree with Xrayvision to be honest. the thing is that since the beginning of the series they've said they always knew where the story is going and that from al/miles standpoint everything would be wrapped up at the end so there wouldnt be plot holes. they did that with veritas but it failed at this. Veritas left more questions to it. To say Lionel was in Smallville the day of the meteor shower for the traveler wasnt true because as season 2 has shown he didnt know about aliens in smallville until hamilton brought it to his attention. thats when he started digging. also they say he knew all along about krypton and all that crap but season 3 showed that he was eager to find out where Clark was and what he could do. those are huge plot holes and it all just doesnt fit. if he wanted Clark to trust him after all those years then why did he almost kill him after all those years? its just really dumb. i feel 100% the same as Xrayvision. i personally think they came up with the veritas storyline after they watched heroes. lol im just saying.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          ^^Lionel knowing that Clark would arrive the day he did is probably one of the biggest questions they left unanswered. If he knew the Traveler would show up that day, why bring Lex with him? He did neglect Lex for the Traveler as Lex's memories showed, but he didn't hate Lex to drag him into a potentially dangerous situation. A father who is obsessed with an alien traveler wouldn't bring his 9 year old son with him if he expects to meet the traveler. I don't think Lionel even knew if the traveler was a young kid (like Clark was) or a grown adult. Swann didn't even know until years after getting Jor-El's "deliver my son from evil" message when he finally decoded the message.

                          It's clear that Lionel didn't know of the Naman legend because he would have known about Naman coming to Earth in a rain of fire. He would have left Lex home had that been the case.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ^ exactly. thats my point. veritas was interesting but it was hardly good or great. it just made the story more convoluted that it should have been.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I wish they would have kept the Kawatche caves set instead of keeping the clocktower set from Birds of Prey that became Ollie's place. Then they could have used the caves to continue the mythology about Clark's arrival, Kem-El's involvement (he should have been explained as the one who told the original Kawatche tribe of Naman), and the rest. They could have made changed happen in the caves as Clark progressed on with his destiny to guide him and had Lex follow the changes and become more curious with Lionel's involvement in Clark's life. That would have avoided the Traveler mess.

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