The Jor-El in this show is a failure

[Dustmite]

Jor-El on Smallville is absurd. I'm hoping it's revealed that the AI became corrupted somehow because most of his actions make no sense at all.

[xrayvision]

I would love to see Kal-EL vs Bizarro, are you kidding me?
Evil Clark vs Evil Clark, nothing ....nothing would have been better for me.

Kal-El is not evil. He is not a true ideal hero like Clark, but he's not a killer/murderer like Zod or even a maniac like Zor-El. He however is ruthless and cold and would let people die to stop evil, which Superman never, ever does. Superman always allows the villian to clobber him when the villian puts humans in danger so he can save the humans. Kal-El wouldn't do that, but wouldn't kill people either (at least not for reasons other than capital punishment, which is unclear whether or not he believes in it).

But I'd love to see it. I would rather see him fight Clark though because the only way Clark would ever win is to grow the hell up and become what we have waited so long for.

[TKFlash]

Jor-El was far from a failure, but that was very inconsistent.

[DarkseidNow]

The problem with this show is that they have made it seem that once Clark receives his training from Jor-El then he will leave the Fortress as Superman.

That's friggin stupid and a big problem I had with the first Superman movie (which I did enjoy nontheless)

This will not making becoming Superman Clark's choice, but the product of his father's machinations.

[xrayvision]

No, it really didn't.
I thought maybe that would have had Jor-El training Clark or something, but he was just stuck there in the ice, frozen, not doing anything productive.
For all the times Jor-El wants to train Clark, why wouldn't he have taken the opportunity to do so?

See, as long as it would be explained as Jor-El being the one who trapped Clark, it's a no-win situation. If Jor-El traps Clark without training him, then it's pointless. If Jor-El traps Clark to train him, then we have him forcing training on Clark and a huge part of (what wll later be) Superman being forced on him and being Jor-El's will. I think both of these are horrible circumstances. Bizarro should have been the one responsible. The FOS was all dark.

That would have actually made more sense to me because it would have helped explain how Bizarro knew to take over Clark's life because he saw Clark all trapped in the ice.

But, then, they never explained how Bizarro got free from wherever Manhunter put him, so it's just another one of those things we just have to accept, which really stinks.

Yes. It sounded so stupid how Bizarro assumed Clark dead. What on Earth would have killed him? Bizarro seemed very dumb & ignorant. He didn't even bother checking the FOS until Chloe/Lana told him. And he didn't care to find out why there was an unnatural eclipse.

We're supposed to assume that Bizarro returned due to the eclipse. Chloe or Lois said that the eclipse was caused by water molecules blocking out the sun's rays. Since Earth is the first planet from the sun that has water, I believe that a cloud of thick water vapor formed not far from Earth's atmosphere and blocked the sun from getting to Earth or any smaller planets after Earth, which Mars is. Chloe made a comment about Bizarro being placed on the sunny side of Mars by the MM. Though Mars has no permanent sunny side because it, like Earth, has days & nights, Bizarro under normal circumstances still couldn't escape during Martian nights because if he did, he would be facing pure, unfiltered solar radiation which would have killed him. But because the eclipse blocked out the sun from Mars too (since Mars is slightly smaller than Earth & further away from the sun), Bizarro was able to fly from Mars to Earth sometime in Blue (offscreen).

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----

I dont care about Clark being traped in the FOS, but he should have been stuck in the training light beam, like the one when Chloe interrupted, I think it was in Arrival; what a bunch of wasted time.

Nope, that shouldn't have happened either because after all this nonsense, in the end I want a Clark Kent who is not forced to become Superman (a hero) due to training or Jor-El's will being forced on him. I want him to make that choice because he wants to. I don't mind him doing some learning at the FOS with Jor-El, but I don't want the same mistake made in the Donner movie (how he was non-stop with Jor-El for 12 years) to be repeated in this show. It's the biggest mistake the show can make. I do not want this Superman to be a product of Jor-El.

----- Added 13 Minutes later -----

Releasing Kal-el would have been pointless.
Seeing as Jor-el had nothing to do with Bizarro's return, I suppose Jor-el wanted Clark to understand what would happen if he kept disobeying him. People would die, the world would turn to caos and probably all sort of aliens would try to rule it.
From what I understood, Jor-el wanted to keep Clark trapped in the FOS for quite a long time, but Bizarro showed up and he had to release Clark to take care of the threat. Because Jor-el sent Clark to Earth to save the planet from a destiny very similar to Krypton's (as Raya said in "Fallout") and Clark seemed more interested in being stubborn and pretending to make decisions based too much on his emotions (especially the most twisted ones).

Releasing Kal-El would have finally fixed all of Clark's mistakes. You could bet he would sit idle with Lana and would very soon find out that Brainiac was back and would seek to destroy him. Seeing Kal-El running around as an example but as a non-ideal hero would teach Clark. If Clark would see Kal-El refusing to save people while fighting Brainiac as Brainiac would drop a building on them, he would finally wake up to why he needs to step up and learn what's necessary to truly defeat that side of him in battle and become Earth's hero. That would be the greatest incentive for him to train and leave Lana behind. Seeing the domineering ruler side of him (i.e. Kal-El) inflict his own ruthless justice on criminals is not something Clark would just sit back and allow to continue.

If this would happen, it would finally give meaning why Clark refused to kill Lex before he became Zod. Most of his disobedience to Jor-El would make sense and be justified.

----- Added 20 Minutes later -----

It would have been nice, but Kal-el's gone and Jor-el isn't going to bring him back. That part of CK's journey ended when the FOS was built and in the new one CK is supposed to make decisions based on his judgment and experience... unfortunately he seems to be a failure in this sense... unless the ice cube experience managed to teach him something. We'll have to see in the next episodes.

That's not true. Clark even said Kal-El is still a part of him (I believe in Onyx). I think if black-k is exposed to him, he will unleash Kal-El again. That's why when he opened that lockbox in Onyx where he found the black-k that unleashed evil Lex, he immediately stepped away from it. That part of him will always be there.

The liklyhood of them bringing him back is very low. And that sucks given how much they can do with him.

----- Added 24 Minutes later -----

The problem with this show is that they have made it seem that once Clark receives his training from Jor-El then he will leave the Fortress as Superman.

That's friggin stupid and a big problem I had with the first Superman movie (which I did enjoy nontheless)

This will not making becoming Superman Clark's choice, but the product of his father's machinations.

Thank you DarkseidNow. That's exactly what I've been saying. And by doing that, he will never learn how to deal with the villian your username refers to (Darkseid). He has yet to defeat anyone even having 10% of Darkseid's power. The toughest foe he can fight on this show (out of all the characters they've had) is Kal-El.

[SV'S_immortal_hero]

We're supposed to assume that Bizarro returned due to the eclipse. Chloe or Lois said that the eclipse was caused by water molecules blocking out the sun's rays. Since Earth is the first planet from the sun that has water, I believe that a cloud of thick water vapor formed not far from Earth's atmosphere and blocked the sun from getting to Earth or any smaller planets after Earth, which Mars is.

your taking that excuse a little too literal chloe using the water excuse was the same as the barn door excuse, the tractor and many others shes used to lie to lois to keep clarks secret

Chloe made a comment about Bizarro being placed on the sunny side of Mars by the MM. Though Mars has no permanent sunny side because it, like Earth, has days & nights, Bizarro under normal circumstances still couldn't escape during Martian nights because if he did, he would be facing pure, unfiltered solar radiation which would have killed him. But because the eclipse blocked out the sun from Mars too (since Mars is slightly smaller than Earth & further away from the sun), Bizarro was able to fly from Mars to Earth sometime in Blue (offscreen).

again a throw away comment

[litew8]

If Jor-El could trap Clark inside of the FOS so easily, why didn't he trap BiZaRrO too? FLAW

[pacofajita]

The problem with this show is that they have made it seem that once Clark receives his training from Jor-El then he will leave the Fortress as Superman.

That's friggin stupid and a big problem I had with the first Superman movie (which I did enjoy nontheless)

This will not making becoming Superman Clark's choice, but the product of his father's machinations.

I don't like those movies, but you're right. It is a fallacy to believe that's what it takes. TPTB need to have a mind-rape kiss and then have someone present them with an issue of the comics.

[Theshadow129x]

I dont like the idea of Clark having two personalities like kal-el and them his former self. The thing is that its like he came to earth with a certain program and he long forgot it when he crashed landed on earth. it makes him seem more robotic than human/kryptonian.

Kal-el shouldn't be a factor and shouldnt be spoken of as if he is another person, kal-el and Clark Kent are the same person to talk about them separately isn't very cool in my book. I get what you mean Xrayvision about how Kal-el, but he is only a by product of Jor-el also forcing his will on Clark which i don't like.

Jor-el should not also force the destiny on Clark, but at this point in the show I see no other way for them to make Clark go for his destiny other than being forced into it. Clark's personality cripples him from his own future self. He is too afraid to do anything outside of life in Smallville and his friends. He was ready to do his training because Lana was gone at the beginning of the season; if thats what it takes to get him to train then thats pathetic because its another way for him to be forced into a destiny: He'll be foricing himself into doing something he didnt want to do. its not a full embrace. At this point all i can see happening is them lightswitching the character to his destiny.

[Mr.White]

true but they won't do it that because they dont understand the father like figure the voic is supposed to be. hE IS SUPPOSED to bring guidance to Clark and yet he comes off as a tyrant because Al/Miles dont understand who the character is and his true significance. I'm disappointed with the character build of this show with exception of Lex. They got the villain right but the heroes all wrong.

This is true and a real flaw the show has. Al/Miles love their Lana and give her way too much attention. Meanwhile they have made it that the one person Clark should listen to and respect, his father Jor-El, they have Clark hate and mistrust instead.

[Theshadow129x]

This is the reason why everyone hates the Lana Lang character the most, mr. White. After season three it was apparent they ran out of ideas for the character they have been trying to find some relevance for her to be on the show outside of being Clark Kent's girlfriend, however when they tried to take her away from that, everything that followed failed and they resorted back to making her Clark Kent's girlfriend. I swear I hope that in 15 years I can take over some form of Superman liscensing and redo the origin of the characters this show and the donner films tarnished. everyone that has taken up the character arent true fans of the comics, they're fans of the television or movie versions of the character they loved so much which is a dumb down version of the comic book icon and greatest hero in comics of all time.

[xrayvision]

Kal-el shouldn't be a factor and shouldnt be spoken of as if he is another person, kal-el and Clark Kent are the same person to talk about them separately isn't very cool in my book. I get what you mean Xrayvision about how Kal-el, but he is only a by product of Jor-el also forcing his will on Clark which i don't like.

Jor-el should not also force the destiny on Clark, but at this point in the show I see no other way for them to make Clark go for his destiny other than being forced into it. Clark's personality cripples him from his own future self. He is too afraid to do anything outside of life in Smallville and his friends. He was ready to do his training because Lana was gone at the beginning of the season; if thats what it takes to get him to train then thats pathetic because its another way for him to be forced into a destiny: He'll be foricing himself into doing something he didnt want to do. its not a full embrace. At this point all i can see happening is them lightswitching the character to his destiny.

That's my point though. Jor-El is still forcing his will on him. And to use the "fighting against Kal-El in a war" route would break away from Clark becoming Superman by being forced into it by Jor-El. And that is a good thing. Even though his Kal-El side (or his nature side) that Jor-El brainwashed into him (or brought out of him) is NOT evil, I think Clark would put aside any feelings for Lana even if he was 100% totally in love with her (which he's not anymore) to save the human race from Kal-El's brand of protecting/ruling. Using the Kal-El mechanism would prove that he cares more about mankind than he does about Lana. It would have been a much better way of showing him progress (which is still not being done, unless at best at a snail's pace) than by making Lana evil and prove like they are doing such a good job of, that Lana not living up to the expectations he set is the only reason he will become Superman.

[WickedJenn]

It made no sense that Jor-El trapped Clark in the FOS when Brainiac & Bizarro got loose. That just makes him look really bad. I was really hoping that Bizarro trapped Clark. That's just crappy writing. Trapping Clark and then releasing him was pointless. He's still a BDA. They showed the FOS all dark and lifeless and now they show it all alive & well. Very inconsistent. And Jor-El who usually knows everything that's going to happen and even predicted Zod's return before it happened had no idea that Brainiac & Bizarro were loose.

I'm very disappointed in that aspect of this episode. It was great except for that.

I hear ya, but I'm not going to assume anything yet. We've still got some epis left, so who knows what will happen. IF Clark DID get some sort of training, I don't think he'd kick it into high gear in one epi. He did get right on trying to get rid of Bizarro, and he doesn't even know Brainiac's loose.

Now maybe Jor-El's test, somehow (even if inadvertently), IS Brainiac. We all know how painstaking it can be to get rid of Brainaic, maybe THAT'S part of Jor-El's other "kick in the pants" for Clark. Jor-El's goal all along has been trying to get Clark to see that there's more out there than just farming and his immediate family and friends. With a formidable enemy as Brainiac, it would show Clark that these kinds of enemies will always be surfacing for him to fight. Then on top of that we now have the true Lex Luthor we've always wanted on the show. Combining all this, maybe it will open Clark's eyes more...making him begin to see that his time's much needed outside of Smallville.

Here's hoping anyway.

[malft]

Jor El reminds me of some parents I've dealt with whos' children are drug addicts (BDA)s'. In order to save, protect and teach their children they run the risk of being seen as controlling, rigid despots. Clark after all is a "Strange visitor from another planet" who, even though he was raised here, is not human, and doesn't act or react in a purely human way. Smallvilles' Clark Kent is a lazy student who isn't being challenged in school. Jor El as his parent must discipline and steer his child onto the right path.

[kasealaine]

I think I would like to see some sort of FoS Jor-El timeline. I think I might put something like that together: List all the things that he's done to Clark that, supposedly, Clark would understand later, then match them up with how they were resolved. Then, I think I will send the list to the writers.
Yeah... that'll show 'em.