Continuity Issue with T2...

[vyperman7]

Here is what's established in the first film - Reese is sent back in time to protect Sarah Connor. They eventually fall for each other and sleep together. Sarah becomes pregnant with John.

This is where my continuity issue comes into play. Assume that T3 was never made and the events in T2 resulted in preventing the war. How would John ever be born? Without the war, Reese never goes back in time to get Sarah pregnant.

In order for John to be born, there has to be a war plain and simple. Without the war, he will cease to exist.

[superhippie2000]

ya time travel stuff always comes to stuff like this. like no war no john no john then there is a war if there is a war then john. and its a giant loop lol.

[GuardianAngel]

I suppose that's why the alternate ending for T2 was cut off and Judgement Day was only postponed.
The way I see it:
No War => No resistance with John as a leader => No need to create a Time machine and send Kyle Reese and the first Terminator back in 1984 => John's isn't conceived.
If Sarah, John and T101 had managed to prevent Judgement Day in T2, then the very same moment Arnold's last finger was detroyed at the end of T2 John would have ceased to exist and Sarah would have been seen in a completely different life (with other children) and without any knowledge of either the war, or the terminators. In other words, nothing in T1 and T2 would have ever happened.

[Uncanny Antman]

It all hinges on whether or not they stopped JD in T2. Sarah thought they did, but it'd be a little silly for Cyberdyne not to have off site back-ups of all their important research. Especially something as irreplacable as the info on the CPU.

P.S. Hey vyper, remember me from way back? Yes, I am still alive.

[jimmyolsenblues]

vyperman7, you make a very good about a singular time line.
no war, no john connor, no reese, no travel back, no pregnancy.
I agree with everything you say.
But I think if time travel were possible, and that is a huge if, there could be multiple dimensions of possibilities too. i don't know how to describe it , but if you could go back in time, you would be creating a brand new reality of time, like every point does not translate to the next.
if you could warp back in 100 years, everything you did before today would still be happening in other dimension and everything you did 100 years ago in terms of today's consequences would be another dimension.
Like a branching theory , where every branch exists.

Sci fi , Time travel, Aliens , are the best plot stories aren't they?

[borednow]

This is why I hate T2, that and because it pretty much has the exact same plot line... just switch out names and have the bad guy Terminator do all these wacko feats, but by the description of the time machine he shouldn't have been able to travel back anyway, only things with living tissue could use the thing... oh well I ignore it existence when ever possible. Only T1 exists in my view of the story.

[model101_t800]

Dont hate time travel and multiple timelines.

Travel travel and parallel universe is very well explained by Quantum Physics. Quantum Physics (physics after 1925) takes over where Classical Physics (everything before 1925 - Newton, Galileo, and some work of Einstien). The laws of motion, thermodynamics etc are examples of classical physics. Classical physics is unable to explain anything below sub-atomic levels.

I have spent a lot of time learning about Quantum Physics and have no problem understanding and accepting the time travel and multiple time lines in Terminator movies.

Its easy. Google on Quantum Mechanics or Physics and patiently read some of the basics.

[borednow]

... I know about Quantum Mechanics, I've had derived wave functions for atomically bound electrons. I'm a Physics major. I still have problems with a closed time loop of that type being ignored. Writing it off as parallel universes is at best sloppy writing anyway. Even if it did make sense, which in IMO it does not even with a base understanding of Quantum reality, T2 still ruins everything that was cleaver about the original story line. In an attempt to destroy it's arch nemesis bad guy creates not only it's arch nemesis but itself. T2 is just a rip off of the original with a happy ending and better special effects.

[AgentCross]

As it was shown, Judgement Day was not and could not be stopped. Thus the war happened and John always sends back Kyle to ensure his own existence.

[Professor Chaos]

An issue I have is this- what are the chances Kyle Reese would even be born? Bear with me here.. Imagine the first time line: John Connor and Kyle Reese both grow up never having met or known about cyborgs until Judgement Day. Now our current time line where the T-101 and Kyle are sent back in time over 40 years, 20 years before Kyle Reese is even born. In T1, 17 cops are killed, 2 Sarah Connors are murdered and Cyberdyne, a leading military computer supplier is created (T101 parts). I won't go into what all happened in T2, but you get the point. Maybe some of you are aware of the butterfly effect or have seen the crappy movie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect#Popular_media

Basically, even the slightest change in the past could lead to a drastically different future, thus Kyle would probably not even be conceived. But then you would have to address the issue that if Kyle never existed how would John have been there to lead the resistance and send Kyle back in time to protect Sarah and in turn disrupt the time line and lead to his own non existance.

Anyways, it's best if you just don't think about the time travel aspect and just enjoy it.

[6-Super-Man -5]

Time Travel, ...so unrealistic, Robots from the future isn't that bad. Aside from that, the movie was fine.

[akm3]

An issue I have is this- what are the chances Kyle Reese would even be born? Bear with me here.. Imagine the first time line: John Connor and Kyle Reese both grow up never having met or known about cyborgs until Judgement Day. Now our current time line where the T-101 and Kyle are sent back in time over 40 years, 20 years before Kyle Reese is even born. In T1, 17 cops are killed, 2 Sarah Connors are murdered and Cyberdyne, a leading military computer supplier is created (T101 parts). I won't go into what all happened in T2, but you get the point. Maybe some of you are aware of the butterfly effect or have seen the crappy movie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect#Popular_media

Basically, even the slightest change in the past could lead to a drastically different future, thus Kyle would probably not even be conceived. But then you would have to address the issue that if Kyle never existed how would John have been there to lead the resistance and send Kyle back in time to protect Sarah and in turn disrupt the time line and lead to his own non existance.

Anyways, it's best if you just don't think about the time travel aspect and just enjoy it.

The butterfly effect is only an issue if there are multiple quantum timelines.

In the Terminator universe, there is only one time line, although the timing of events shift a little forward and backwards, everything always happens the same way.

John Connor is always the leader of the resistance, and always defeats skynet in the future. Skynet always sends terminators back in time to kill john, John always sends Kyle back to protect himself and essentially create himself. Judgement day always happens.

[vc2o6]

Here is what's established in the first film - Reese is sent back in time to protect Sarah Connor. They eventually fall for each other and sleep together. Sarah becomes pregnant with John.

This is where my continuity issue comes into play. Assume that T3 was never made and the events in T2 resulted in preventing the war. How would John ever be born? Without the war, Reese never goes back in time to get Sarah pregnant.

In order for John to be born, there has to be a war plain and simple. Without the war, he will cease to exist.

Only one earth, original events in the timeline were changed (altered):

In the 1980’s Sarah Connor married a soldier (no relation to the Reese family line) and had a baby his name was John Connor. In early 21st century (2000) Cyberdyne turns on their AI and Skynet is born. Skynet saw humans as a threat and decided to terminate all humans, original judgment day. John Connor who grows up to lead the Resistance (with the knowledge of warfare taught by his father). Many years later after the Resistance was established John saves Kyle Reese from the extermination camps. In 2029 Skynet knowing its destruction, in a last attempt sends a terminator to travel to 1984 to kill Sarah Connor to wipe John from existence. John Connor then decides to send Kyle to protect Sarah Connor in 84’ (before the time machine was destroyed). Which then leads to T1 and T2.

So John Connor’s original father was not Kyle Reese but someone else. The John Connor we see in T1 and T2 is from a altered timeline. When Kyle was sent to 1984 and impregnated Sarah a new John was created the John we see in T2. But then how did Kyle Reese get the picture of Sarah that we see in T1? In the 80’s Sarah traveled to mexico on a vacation to learn more about the culture and during that time the picture was taken. In this theory everytime people travel through time (and changes events in the past) a new timeline is created (like in Back to the Future), the original one ceased to exist. Which is why John Connor in Terminator Salvation says, “This is not the future my mother warned me about”. Because its not, its an altered future. If Kyle Reese 2018 (Terminator Salvation) dies John can still exist because John’s father is Kyle Reese from the original timeline.

[BIGBMH]

It would be a continuity issue IF T3 didn't make it so that Judgement Day did happen and the actions of T2 just delayed it.

[Jigga]

From the perspective of John Connor, he is always born regardless of what his actions are.

The other timelines continue on their course regardless of the action in the other timelines. There are timelines where John isn't born at all.