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Was it just me or was Clark being a jerk in this ep?

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  • #76
    Ah, yes, and Bart as well. We clearly could go on and on.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by TampaVille
      1) What if he'd been experimenting on convicts? Couldn't your reasoning apply just as well there? Just because somebody has done something wrong, it doesn't give you the right to lock them up and perform scientific experiments on them.

      2) This one you've got a pretty good point. Though, after Clark had made it clear that he didn't want Lex poking around in his affairs, if Lex had been a true friend, he'd have stopped (like how Chloe stopped).

      3) Heh, like you said, this one is pretty bad. But who said Lex should be executed for it? I don't understand your reference to the death penalty.
      1) Honestly I dont care. If someone were to experiment on murderers, id say go right ahead. Human rights? They should have thought about that beforehand

      2) still thets be honest here. Lex pretty much had physical proof in the supernatural. would you just walk away from that. and as I remember, chloe didnt really stop. she toned it down, but never stopped being suspicious about him. and when clark lost his memory, she basically used that ass her ecscuse to have him do tricks with his powers for her.

      3) You had mentioned that Lex didnt deserve to be alive after all he did.


      Originally posted by All about Clark
      1.I'd like to add that Lex also cloned his wife

      1. So? sure a bit odd, but I dont see anything morally wrong with it.

      Originally posted by TampaVille
      Lex abducted, falsely imprisoned, and tortured Aquaman.
      Oh yea, you mean the eco terrorist who broke into his lab to blow it up just to save couple hundred fish? How is that falsely imprisoning? And he never tortured him. Lexknew that he would escape if he gave him water, so he didnt.

      And becuase of that terrorist prick, god knows how many soldiers will die becuase that weapon was damaged. But atleast a couple hundred fish who mean nothing will live long lives.

      Originally posted by All about Clark
      Ah, yes, and Bart as well. We clearly could go on and on.
      Just like aquaman, Bart was a terrorist who broke in the lab to attempt to blow it up.

      You want to talk about unfair violence, how about that security guard that the green arrow killed in "Justice"? How is that ok?

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      • #78
        Green Arrow didn't kill a guard, he just wounded his shoulder.

        The problem wasn't that Lex is researching aliens or looking for proof, the problem was that Lex pretended to be Clark's friend all the while studying him and his family. That just isn't done between friends. Even Chloe backed off when Clark asked her to. Lex clearly don't know how to treat friends if that's what he thought he was being for Clark. It was all about manipulation for Lex.

        Also I don't know how anyone can be on Lex's side in the meteor freak issue, as it can happen to anyone. And you wouldn't want to be Lex's play toy just because you were unfortunate enough to be exposed. Lex locked people away, at least in Belle Reve they could have family visits and have some sort of life.

        On the cloning issue, are you saying that it is OK if someone cloned you without your knowledge and kept it from you all the while lying to your face. I don't think so.

        And really it is alot more about the motives. Lex's motive was to hurt Aquaman and Bart to pull information from them. Neither Bart nor Aquaman tried her to physically hurt Lex. One wanted to protect the oceans and our eco system and the other wanted to protect 33.1 victims. Those are good motives for their actions and you can't say the same for Lex.

        It really seems like people who love Lex and his motives are a little unbalanced.
        Last edited by All about Clark; 11-09-2007, 04:55 PM.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by All about Clark
          1. Green Arrow didn't kill a guard, he just wounded his shoulder.

          2. The problem wasn't that Lex is researching aliens or looking for proof, the problem was that Lex pretended to be Clark's friend all the while studying him and his family. That just isn't done between friends. Even Chloe backed off when Clark asked her to. Lex clearly don't know how to treat friends if that's what he thought he was being for Clark. It was all about manipulation for Lex.

          3. Also I don't know how anyone can be on Lex's side in the meteor freak issue, as it can happen to anyone. And you wouldn't want to be Lex's play toy just because you were unfortunate enough to be exposed. Lex locked people away, at least in Belle Reve they could have family visits and have some sort of life.

          4. On the cloning issue, are you saying that it is OK if someone cloned you without your knowledge and kept it from you all the while lying to your face. I don't think so.

          5. And really it is alot more about the motives. Lex's motive was to hurt Aquaman and Bart to pull information from them. Neither Bart nor Aquaman tried her to physically hurt Lex. One wanted to protect the oceans and our eco system and the other wanted to protect 33.1 victims. Those are good motives for their actions and you can't say the same for Lex.
          1. Oh, so its ok to shoot someone innocent just as long as you dont kill them?

          And that is if the guy got out. All I saw was the green arrow shoot someone in the back, the guy fall, and minutes later the plant blows up. I know chloe said that there was no one inside based on heat signatures, but there isnt really any way to know that. if someone was in a basement area (which it looks like the guard and god knows how many people were) thier heat signature would have been blocked. Id say that the JLA just murdered a few dozen people in a terrorist attack.

          2. He never pretended to be Clark's friend. Was Chloe pretending to be his friend while she was investigating him? He was his firend, he just was pissed off that his "friend" wasnt being honest with him.

          3. Thets not forget who these meteor freaks are. the only reason that they were exposed was because they tried to brutally murder people. they deserve everything lex has to throw at them and then some.

          4. Personally, I wouldnt care.

          5. Thier motives arent the issue. Ic an see the motives in anything. The fact is that to accomplish those motives, they were willing to commit a terrorist act , killing and maiming god knows how many people in the process.

          And thier motives are shakey also. Is killing a few hundred stupid fish to save a bunch of american soldiers evil? No, thats just eco-terrorism, lkike a radical Green Peace. And with Bart, why would he want to help meteor freaks who murdered a bunch of people or tried to? They dont deserve a thing.

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          • #80
            I was going to say something about how I disagree with everything Kal-El Son of Krypton said but you know what? This is so beyond off topic. The question is "Was Clark being a jerk in this episode." How is Lex justification or lack there of even related to that?

            I think Clark was acting like a jerk in this episode. He was condescending to his friend, was a huge hypocrite in his conversations with Kara and didn't tell her he took the crystal after he knew she knew better then to use it. So to me Clark really didn't come off well in this episode.

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            • #81
              Kal-el Son of Krypton, I'm not going to respond to the ridiculousness of your answer as it is clear you've missed quite a few episodes.

              I will say that Lex altering our eco system with his machine could have easily destroyed the future of mankind. So that was extremely important to stop Lex. Lex was more interested in money and power than mankind.

              I don't think Clark was a jerk to anyone in this episode. Chloe and him had a natural real conversation where each could operate with their own agendas and still share information. Kara and him was a real family scenario in that by the time he found her he already had taken the crystal and knew that whatever she did it would put her at risk. Then he did what any good family member would do and that was to seek her out to protect her.

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              • #82
                ah, the old "im not responding to something so stupid" arguement. A last ditch effort of someone trying to back out of a debate when they can't reposnd in a more intelligent way.

                And about the whole "ecological disaster" thing. Tens of thousands of fish are killed everyday for food. aquaman was freaking out over a few hundred that would be killed for protecting our country.

                There are over 3 trillion fish in the ocean. and to be honest, id rather have all of them die rather than have one civillian or miliary casualty of an american citizen.

                Sure it may technicly harm a few stupid fish, but it protects soldiers. What is more imporatnt?

                Hardly an "ecological disaster that could destroy the future of mankind."

                How dod yu een know that lex was intrested in money. he already has enough money, and has shown in the pst that he is clearly intrested in national defence and new technology.

                and actually, iv seen every episode. You are just so eager to blame Lex that youl pounce on him for anything.

                If you want to be taken seriously, give me an actual rebuttal. You still havent justified the green arrow being able to shoot an innocent security guard.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Kal-El Son of Krypton
                  If you want to be taken seriously, give me an actual rebuttal. You still havent justified the green arrow being able to shoot an innocent security guard.
                  I'm not getting in the middle of the debate you're having with other posters. I have my thoughts on the debate but don't see the need to voice them.

                  What I would like to do is respond to this one point. I ask that you read my reply constructively, not as an attack. Please don't get defensive. If I make a good point, you may very well want to actually change your opinion.

                  The security guard was not innocent. Lex was in the process of committing a crime. My law is a bit rusty, but he was perpetrating the crime of false imprisonment by holding Bart Allen against his will, and the creative high speed torture he was undergoing would probably qualify as assault. There were likely other crimes and torts going on, but it's not relevant to describe them. That even one was taking place is enough to move on to my next point.

                  The guard, by guarding the facility in which Bart was being held against his will, was engaging in conspiracy to commit whatever crimes Lex was masterminding.

                  If you see a crime taking place, you legally have the right to stop it, using equal force to those perpetrating the crime. If they are threatening lethal force to commit a crime, you are legally entitled to use lethal force in response. The guard was armed with a gun. Green Arrow shot him with an arrow. An arrow is substantially less lethal than a gun, especially if it was tipped with some sort of non-lethal knockout substance and GA was shooting only to wound, not to kill.

                  Also, Chloe stated that her sensors showed no life signs inside the building. She did not say "except for the concealed underground chambers where there are several dozen guards." She had no caveats. She also isn't (and has never been, lol) a Luthor, so I really doubt she was covering up the skeletons in her closet. Simply, I believe her. If she says there were no casualties, I believe there were no casualties.

                  What took place was that Lex had kidnapped Bart. Was Bart completely innocent, or even mostly innocent? Not really. He'd broken in, trespassed, etc. But that didn't give Lex the right to commit crimes in response. If he'd wanted to, he could have called the police and held him long enough for them to take him into custody. That's not what Lex did though.

                  Lex was commiting a crime. The Justice League exercised far less force than they were legally entitled to in stopping the crime.

                  So far as blowing up the facility goes, that's a separate matter, and one we can discuss separately if you wish. But as far as shooting the guard with an arrow goes, it seems a pretty open and shut case.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    The thing is, the guard most likely didnt even know about Lex's plan. He was just some innocent security guard hired by luthorcorp to do his job.
                    Remember that the green arrow shot that guard in a completly different part of the building. It is likley that he didnt even know about Bart.

                    And about chloe monitering the building. she was monitering it by using heat signatures picked up by a satalite. If anyone was underground, or even in a concrete room (which the security guard was) it would block that signature. It was impossible to tell if there was anyone left in the building. Im sure atleast a few people (including the guard) died. And thats if he didnt die of his wounds beforehand.

                    But even in the unlikely event that the security guard did survive, shooting someone innocent is still very, very naughty.

                    But atleast that was better than aquaman. AC just wanted to blow up that lab. He didnt have anyone telling him that there was no one in the building. the eco-terrorist was so eager to save a few hundred stupid fish that he put the lives of anyone in the building in danger. Plus god knows how many of our soldiers will die becuase we dont have that weapon. from that point on, every navy wife that becomes a widower unnessessarily is on his concscience.

                    BTW: I appreciate you trying to be cordial. Thank you.
                    Last edited by Kal-El Son of Krypton; 11-12-2007, 07:32 PM.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Kal-El Son of Krypton

                      BTW: I appreciate you trying to be cordial. Thank you.
                      My pleasure. We obviously disagree pretty strongly on some items, but I'm much happier to discuss it in a friendly manner than to go for one another's jugulars.

                      As far as Aquaman goes... yes, I'm not entirely happy with how he's been portrayed on SV. Actually, I have not once read an Aquaman comic, so maybe this is a very faithful representation of the character. He just doesn't seem terribly heroic. He sees everything as very one-sided and goes to extremes as his first resort. Extremes could sometimes be necessary, but he seems to just enjoy blowing things up. He's been on two episodes of SV, and both times he's been itching to blow up a LuthorCorp lab, lol.

                      All that said... I think the writers have writen themselves into a corner. They want to have the Justice League (as a whole, and as individuals) foiling big evil conspiracies, but they didn't want to make Lex super evil just yet. So they end up with Clark and company foiling plans which are at worst morally ambiguous.

                      When they got around to the episode Justice, they did a better job of it. Lex was doing actual bad guy stuff, so their efforts were more warranted. And despite the issues you raised about heat signatures, I'm willing to write it off to bad writing. The important point the writers were making was that nobody was left inside. It was one of those "insert bad explanation here" things. Heck, I don't mind assuming that Chloe was able to boost the heat readings using an internal sensor grid within the compound that she hacked into, so that she could get readings even on heavily shielded areas. The writers were basically saying, "Lookie, lookie. A bunch of superheroes are on the show! And they just blew something up! But don't worry, nobody died."

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                      • #86
                        I was fine with the Chlark.

                        The last scene WAS really creepy to me though.

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