Superman, Killer...? (merged)

[wraith808]

So, I guess in the cases where Superman has wanted to kill but pulled back at the last moment because he came to his senses, he 'killed' also? Because he has done it- more than once- and it has made for good drama because of it.

You can't have it both ways...

[Mr. Wrong]

IMO, when someone produces a weapon intending to kill and you defend yourself in a way that inadvertently causes them to impale themselves the intent is self preservation. We know that Titan was capable of killing CK so since there was no other alternative action CK could have pursued. Unless he simply allows Titan to go unchecked until he can find a way to send him back to the PZ. CK simply did what no one else was capable of accomplishing. Even David had to slay Goliath!

[Peat Moss]

Clark wasn't thinking about what he was doing. Yes he said "Not if i kill him first", but that didn't mean he intended to actually do it. The fact that Titan died "accidentally" IS important--because what if he hadn't landed on the spike? So far Clark had just been throwing punches, and it would have taken awhile to actually kill Titan. Even if it took right up until he was about to throw the punch, Clark would have pulled back. He would have realized what he was doing before he killed Titan, and stopped. It was NOT premeditated in any case. While he was talking to Chloe, he was considering that this may be the only option. He didn't seem to be thinking a lot before and during the fight--posssibly because fighting Titan stretched his abilities to the maximum. He wasn't thinking the whole time "I'm gonna kill this guy." If you count this as killing, than you have to count every time he fought someone and they died as killing them, since it could be argued that he planned to even if he did not.

My conclusion? Superman wouldn't kill even if it appeared to be the only way. possibly Clark, before becoming a hero, would, as long as he feels regret, which he did. But in this case? It was not killing. He didn't deliver a killing blow--and that makes a bigger difference than you may think. Because I do not believe he would have gone through with the actual killing blow itself.

[freefall]

Originally posted by Peat Moss
But in this case? It was not killing. He didn't deliver a killing blow--and that makes a bigger difference than you may think. Because I do not believe he would have gone through with the actual killing blow itself.

Here's exactly where the writers dropped the ball yet again. They really should have shown him that he would never deliver that killing blow, without any ambiguity at all. Instead they just simply showed Titan stabbing himself with his own spike, and we're left to reassure ourselves that in Combat Clark has never intended to kill.

Not only Clark said outright he wanted to kill Titan (his choice of word goes a long way here, since he could have just said "Not if I stopped him" or something similar) but also when he said "My turn" in reply to Titan's "Time to die Kryptonian!" It just reinforced my impression that he really did intend to kill Titan, and because he was so angry too. That fight was more about himself, rather than the goodwill of really wanting to protect others.

Also like in Vessel. Clark already had Jor-El's dagger at Lex's throat, and they simply had to have Milton Fine taunting him "Let's see if you're your father's son" which prompted him to throw the dagger at Fine instead. In Rogue, the same thing happened when Phelan taunted him, "You want to kill me? You think that's the answer to your problems?" In Pariah, I believe if it wasn't for Lois pleading him to stop, he would have definitely killed Tim.

Even in Vengeance, they had him releasing his hold on the thug who robbed his mother instantly after Andrea yelled at him to kill the scumbag. We knew at the end he said it was because he remembered his father, but it's an equally valid opinion that Andrea "contributed" as well, because her screams made him came back to his senses in some way or other.

At this point of time, I have to agree with a previous poster who said that Clark hasn't yet fully developed that "reverence for life" code of honour. On this show, I believe only Jonathan had really proven his worth on this, when he still wouldn't pull the trigger on Nixon in Vortex. Martha and Chloe, while they're definitely the good guys, they still adopted the "for the greater good" principle like Lionel's, as evidenced in Vessel and Zod.

Jonathan was definitely and absolutely furious in Vortex, and Martha even said she had never seen Jonathan so angry before. But he still wouldn't do it, and we need a scene like that for Clark.

[wraith808]

How is that dropping the ball? Perhaps they meant to have the ambiguity? As even you stated, he hasn't fully developed that part of him... and we see the remorse in the end, and the question... what is he going to do? Perhaps there is a payoff here, down the line...not to mention the coincidence that we had an ep like this *right after* Lex killed for the first time...

[freefall]

Dropping the ball because it has been done so many times before, Clark in full rage mode and/or wanted to kill someone (Rogue, Pariah, Vengeance, Vessel) and it's still done in Combat. Not to mention, the anger was driven just because of Lana/the Lexana wedding, which makes it even more mind-boggling, pathetic and selfish in a way. With the other episodes I've mentioned, at least they were because of other people, Alicia's death, Jonathan's death, threats against his family and against the world itself.

[Ginx]

^ I don't think it was rage from Lana-situation alone. I mean maybe Clark is just all around frustrated. And he's still 'in training' so he's bound to make mistakes. I mean, hell, even Superman makes mistakes. Now we'll just have to see if Clark can learn from the whole situation.

[freefall]

I'm all for people making mistakes, hell I also know Superman makes them, but what makes all the difference is whether or not they learn from those mistakes. In real life I can admit that's not how it would always happen, but for a TV show like this, give us some character developments at least. Clark has been going around frustrated for six years running now, and it seems that he just keep getting angrier each season, as well as bottling his feelings more and more. When he's going to get a grip on himself and his own emotions?

[Ginx]

^^I see your point. And I have to agree. It's season 6 now - the fans have (for the most part) accepted his frustration and the heavy task appointed to him - but now he needs to grow-up. I see where you're coming from and I have to agree.

[HnK]

Originally posted by Raging Clue
I would have done the same thing. If he couldn't use that little crystal on him, then killing him was his only option.

you are not superman / clark kent, thank god for that

[freefall]

Originally posted by Ginx
^^I see your point. And I have to agree. It's season 6 now - the fans have (for the most part) accepted his frustration and the heavy task appointed to him - but now he needs to grow-up. I see where you're coming from and I have to agree.

I muself have actually long accepted that "frustration" as well It's like a car crash, a morbid thing but you just can't help yourself from taking a look at it and there's just no way I'd be able to stop watching Smallville after following it so faithfully since S1. But it would be nice if they can show Clark as a character truly worth rooting for, instead of just relying on the curiosity to know what's going to happen next on this show.

Originally posted by HnK
you are not superman / clark kent, thank god for that

I'm just wondering why he thought the only way to get rid of the Zoners is to kill them. Wasn't Jor-El's the one who put them all away in the PZ in the first place anyway? Why doesn't he go and ask him for at least info about the Zoners, instead of feeling he has to figure everything out on his own?

[Mello Penelo]

Bah. Clark didn't kill Titan. Titan was dumb enough to fight the Man of Steel and died because of it.

[Peat Moss]

I don't think it was just because of Lana, per se. I agree with those who say that Lana represents Clark's desire to be a normal human (thus he loves the idea of Lana more than the actual person) He's seen now he can't be a normal human. He's frustrated and wants to get some benefit out of these powers he sees as a curse, so he takes it out on Titan. Once he's done hitting the pillow (aka Titan) he'll chill.

[freefall]

Clark has perceived his powers as a curse since S1 itself. Doesn't make sense if he just wanted to take everything out on Titan after all these years, even when it was due to his powers that he was able to save Kansas from being blown off the map in Hidden.

[Peat Moss]

No, but he wanted to hurt Titan because his powers now made him unable to end up with Lana and have this "normal life" he kept wanting, and he finally realized it.