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JL and Clark are terrorists, pretty much

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  • I was wondering when this would fall on Clark's shoulders, since it seems that him keeping a private matter private seems to be the reason everyone turns into self-serving a-holes.

    Considering how many time Clark has saved Lex ( and Lana for that matter), what gives them ANY right to want to know more about Clark and Clark thinks they deserve?

    Fact is, Clark's private life is NO ONE business and NO ONE is entitled to know more about him than HE decides to tell them.

    Period.

    The only people that Lex and Lana can blame for "their fall" is themselves.

    Last time I checked, Clark's hand was up their arse making them puppets.

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    • Re: JL and Clark are terrorists, pretty much

      Originally posted by Admiral_N8
      Is it just me or are the writers on Smallville saying its okay for people to steal from companies, to destroy private property, and to assault security guards as long as they think they are serving "justice"?? What is going on here?

      Clark said he'd never be like Green Arrow in how he thinks the ends justify the means, that he wouldnt steal. Yet Clark has no trouble breaking and entering, destroying an entire multi-million dollar lab, and physically beating up guards. Huh??


      Lex has shown in the past what he is doing is providing a way for the nation to better defend itself, as in the naval weapon that Aquaman and Clark destroyed . "There are other ways to defend this country" Clark says...yeah, so when the sailors die because we didnt have this weapon or we lose influence in the South Asians seas what then Clark?

      These freak of the weeks, these people with powers, have 9 out of 10 times been shown to be nothing but a threat, harming and killing innocent people, destroying lives, etc.

      Lex is rounding them up off the streets, trying to use their powers for something more..the defense of America. Lex is trying to develop weapons to protect the country.


      And what does Clark and the JL do? They act like terrorists, and are terrorists.


      This is NOT what Superman would do. Superman would NOT break almost every law in the books, destroy weapons that are to defend America, simply because he feels like its a good idea.

      How terrible. They've really lost touch with what these characters really stand for.

      THEY WERE SOME WONDERFUL, SNAZZY TERRORISTS!!!!!!

      Comment


      • First of all, for Lex to be holding people against their will legally he would have to be operating a privately owned prison which still falls under certain restrictions and guidelines of which human experimentation would be a big NO NO. I seem to remember a large number of people being hung at a place called Nurenburg because they ignored that little tidbit of human decency in favor of what they felt was the “new order” for the public welfare.

        I think it’s safe to assume then since this was a hidden facility that was not identifiable as a prison in any way from the outside by either signage or legal paperwork filed (we can assume this due to the inability of Chloe or Ollie finding it through “normal” channels) that this was an illegal prison. I would also take as evidence that Bart was held there and I don’t remember seeing his trial. I also don’t believe that torturing a prisoner for information as was done with Bart falls under the “good guy” clause Lex was trying to claim. If I’m not mistaken there was some hick hack made over rumors that US troops were doing this to detainees. Seems Congress felt this might be illegal even if it was for our Nations “own good”.

        I also don’t remember “meteor freaks” being singled out as the only ones Lex was interested in. I thought it was “people with powers”. Bart certainly isn’t a meteor freak, but Lex was salivating at the chance to crack him open even before he was captured. As for the mental stability of “meteor freaks” not all have been mentally unbalanced and even the ones that appeared to be weren’t necessarily “unbalanced” by the meteors. A lot of them seem unbalanced naturally.

        Kyle from “Hug” certainly seemed to be benevolent and Bart, Arthur, Victor and Ryan (from “Ryan”) all seemed to be “good guys” though they did at times commit illegal acts. I think if one operates under the assumption that because “some” behaved in a certain way that “all” are dangerous then we are in danger of falling into the trap of “ism” whether that be racism, ageism, sexism, or any other form of discrimination.

        I would hesitate to consider the JL terrorists just as I would to consider Lex a “Patriot”. They were not trying to intimidate or coerce Lex into shutting down 33.1. They simply shut it down for him. This was an illegal facility inflicting harm on innocents (innocent until proven guilty, remember? Another thing this country is founded upon). Was it an illegal act? Certainly, but in the “Smallville” world it is assumed that one could not simply turn it over to the authorities to shut it down as Lex and Co. would have enough money to buy off the authorities. Not to make it legal, but certainly for local authorities to turn their backs as atrocities were committed. At the very least several people (including Bart) could have died before its closure.

        Also, in regards to Lex and his “defense of America” I would have to ask if “America” knew what he was doing on its behalf. Was he commissioned to develop a weapon for the US Government? Or was it merely something he was developing in hopes of selling it to the US Government and should the US be too shortsighted to see it’s uses would he sell it to another government to recoup his financial losses. The Lex Luthor of the comics certainly would.

        I guess what I’m trying to say is that while I can’t speak for the US Government I feel that if you intended to give me a large sum of money to help me pay off all of my debts, but you intend to get it though robbery I’d just as soon say “Thanks, but no thanks”. I’d hope my country would too.

        A wiser man than me once said that someone who sacrifices personal freedom for security deserves neither.


        As for the rest, I would simply ask a hypothetical question. In a case where a people feel that their government is unethical, treating them unfairly and in a discriminatory fashion by for instance not allowing them a fair say in matters regarding their lives and possessions even though it does so in a perfectly legal (as per that government) fashion is it wrong (not illegal mind you, just wrong) to openly declare rebellion against the government, refuse to pay taxes and even illegally enter government property seizing and destroying government holdings in order to demonstrate their frustration and dissatisfaction?

        If so then the Founding Fathers should have been locked up and there never should have been a US Government.

        Comment


        • Exactly!

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          • I think that if the show ended today, it might appear that way, because I think they haven't fully exposed Lex's involvement and inentions here. I think a lot of what we have been seeing has been foreshadowing, or building toward an end. I think as the show goes on, they will be revealing that Lex has a much bigger purpose than saving the public from mutants. I think that is only the mask that Lex has been wearing to justify his work.
            Very, very good point. Thank you. We don't know all that the writers know. Add to that that we don't know all GA knows. He told Clark that Lex was planning to use 33.1 to start a war. Unless you are an inherant GA-hater (and who could be with that outfit) its safe to assume that he knew details that led him to this conclusion. Clark doesn't know these, and neither do we. He trusted GA, and so should we. Why? Because he's a good guy. If you can't trust them, you can't trust anyone. And why do we assume this and not that Lex is a good guy? Because the writers tell us so, and its their show. Plus I doubt they're going against the comics and making Lex good. Since we don't have enough info to confirm whether Lex is doing it for himself or for others, a few things can lead us to a good conclusion.
            --GA said Lex was plotting something evil, and he's usually thorough in information-gathering.
            --Lex has been keeping 33.1 a secret
            --33.1 is using methods distasteful at absolute best, inhuman at worst.
            --Lex has done evil things before
            --Lex will one day become completely evil. We can't just ignore good things he does because of this, but when we don't know either way, it's safe to assume he's doing evil (note:this one applies to us and not the JL, but most of these apply to both)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Admiral_N8

              A government that gets these people off the streets and tries to understand this huge threat to society isnt a govt you'd want to live under? You'd rather they just let them go about and not try to stop it??

              And it doesnt imply it at all, its not a fact, we STILL dont know either way....so we dont know if he does or does not have govt support.
              You miss the point again. A government that ignores it's consitution and jails those citizens without trial and then tortures and experiments them is no better than Nazi Germany. That's not freedom, that's not liberty. It's evil.

              As for the Government, Lex is building an army. Why would the government allow that? And would you really want criminals protecting the country? Your family?

              Lying to a police officer about an illegal immigrant is "minimal"?? Hows that? So Clark gets to just lie to the cops in order to make someone else feel good?? He was rewarding cutting in line of honest immigrants. That is so not minimal, I cant understand how you overlook how terrible a crime that is.

              Cry me a river. Javier was just a kid trying to find his mom. It's not a terrible crime.

              However, you know very well that most of the time when Clark does trespass its not because hes about to save someones life. HE is normally just snooping around based on his hunches.
              And those hunches lead to saving a person in trouble.


              So Clark just gets to decide? HE again gets to place his own beliefs over the law? As long as it makes Clark and someone else feel good might as well do it? Laws be damned?? mmhmmmmm
              It's to HELP someone who needs it.


              I wouldnt let him go, I'd give him money and pay the store back too. I'd catch him and take him to the store, and ask THEM if they want to press charges.

              ITS not MY decision to make!! You seem to miss that huge part! Its not our place to decide the law for other people, we have no right to do that.
              Then I feel sorry for you. I believe in allowing person to eat.



              Its not the door lock, its the idea that Clark thinks he can do whatever the hell he wants based on his own personal hunches, then gets all high and mighty at others who break laws he breaks all the time.
              Clark is helping others. Those he lectures are not. Big difference.



              Big metal doors that are locked? Well thats a new power.

              There was no evidence they were locked. I doubt it'd be hard to unlock those doors. I don't think Lex anticapted Bart getting out. And if he did, he wouldn't have the strength to act on it. If Bart had a way out, he'd have tried it.




              Yes you are taking away their rights because they are different, hey its what I would do, but I see you'd do the same thing.

              Oh but its an "alternative"? How about we also provide "alternative' rights where we place them in a room where they cant leave and test them to see if they are a danger to society??

              Since you seem to think its okay to alter the law a little bit because of the meteor freaks....

              My proposal protects one person's (Myx) right to a fair trial, albiet with a few concessions. All of the rights will be there. It will just be a little bit different. But if as someone said, Myx lost his powers then there is no need. What you are saying strips people of all their rights.


              Yes because the Japanese camp situation and detained meteor freaks who are viraly infected is such a similar and comparable situation.

              That was racism, this has nothing to do with skin color, race, religion, sexual orientation, beliefs. Just has to do with a dangerous disease that has been proven to be extremely deadly to society.



              Lex is offering a solution, the only one who seems to actually be fighting the problem, detain them while they are not as strong, get them off the streets.

              Now he should Find out whos dangerous, and release the rest once theyve been tested.

              Anyway, interesting stuff as usual
              He called Bart a "test subject." A guiena pig to play with until he gets bored or kills Bart. That's a violation of human rights. Put the criminals in jail. Leave the rest alone. If they need help, send them to a hospital. But DO NOT TAKE rights away from people. The US Government took away rights, and so is Lex. And if you really think Lex would release his pets, you're niave.
              Last edited by Sharkie; 01-29-2007, 06:12 PM.

              Comment


              • Yes because the Japanese camp situation and detained meteor freaks who are viraly infected is such a similar and comparable situation.
                actually, it is. It is in fact racism by your very definition of the meteor mutations. You said these people are fundamentally altered on a genetic, and psychological level, making them, a new race in humanity. So just blindly lumping them all together, is by it's very definition, racism.

                Japanese internment camps, were created because it was the thought, and belief all Japanese people were potential spies, so NO Japanese person should be allowed to roam free, just in case.

                Add to that, you aren't using a representitive sampling of meteor mutants, and the whole argument rapidly loses credibility. You are only using as examples, meteor mutants who have killed someone, and gone psycho. However, as was shown this is not all meteor mutants, nor do we even know if it is a majority.

                And let's not even take into account, your own argument makes it out so that Lex is completely unstable, and should be locked away in his own prison, because he himself is a meteor mutant.

                Comment


                • Well I already talked about, and not sure if it was in this thread or the other one, that even if it was installed on all of our combat ships and it killed EVERYTHING in a 3 mile radius around the ships then it would still leave about 99.999999% of the Ocean untouched. Simply beause the Navy follows very strict lanes when they travel, and almost always sit in one spot when they are deployed or stationed. So this weapon would cover almost nothing when you look at the ocean, come on, the oceans huge, 74% of earth is the ocean.
                  the shipping lanes themselves cover vast amounts of ocean territory, although i don't disagree that during peace time this arguement of strict zoning may hold some water. however, during war time, the idea that this weapon, even when on standby, would only be used by Navy vessels sitting in the same place all the time is completely wrong, for obvious reasons that aren't even worth getting into here. By the numbers as they were presented on the show, this weapon used during a major naval war would destroy thousands of miles of ocean life, which from what i know of the earth's eco system would be an environmental disaster. however, a marine biologist would better understand the scope of that than me.

                  Also, Clark constantly lying to him over and over again when Lex knew he wasnt being truthful hurt him. Remember, his relationship with Clark was something admitted by Lex to be one of the key reasons he was still a good person. And of course Clark had to frack that up. He was so betrayed over and over by his closest friend that he started to 100% distrust people, to not let anyone else close to him, and its hard to blame him after how Clark treated him.
                  Lex lied to Clark and kept information from him too many times over to count since the beginning of this show. he had a whole secret room devoted to him for the first 3 seasons. that was entirely a 2 way street. Blaming poor Lex's trust issues on Clark because Clark woudn't tell him he was an alien from another planet would make freud roll over in his grave. Lex had a tough time growing up with Lionel as a role model no doubt..and Jonathan Kent imo was unfair to Lexthrough much of the early show. however..that's life. Lex is an adult who is perfectly capable of making his own decisions. the fact that he struggled with his emotions and choices, and between his mother's and father's influnce, clearly shows he has a grasp on right and wrong and what is going on in his own psyche. playing the victim card in the end imo is just a bad excuse for him not taking responsability for his own actions and acting like a man.
                  Last edited by meteor; 01-30-2007, 06:25 PM.

                  Comment


                  • What I learned about terrorisim in a profesionel capacity does not seem to fit the JL. I also double checked the definition of terrorism on Wikipedia and found that it does not fit your personel definition "Admiral".
                    Last edited by logan00xmn; 02-01-2007, 01:13 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Come on, lets try to be a little serious. These people who have been infected are not like you or me in any way anymore. As shown by the show most of them are not who they were before the infection, and need to be tested to see if they are still in control of themselves.
                      Let's be serious? This coming from a guy who is debating a fiction premise and the premise that all are guilty because of their associations. Look, you cannot lock people up because they have potential to be criminals. It doesn't matter if that is the current trend. It doesn't matter if it is even right by the government. Ecah person is called to serve a moral purpose and sometimes that means you have to go against the grain. Lex loxking people up and doing research on the basis that all meteor freaks are evil is ludicrous. Again I make the comparison between Hitler and the holocaust. I served in Iraq for a year and I hade to distinguish between innocvent Iraqis and the insurgents. Hard to do but one thing we did not do was say "they're all the same so waste them all." Do you not see how wrong that would be? It is the same situation. It is the same situation of saying we need to deport all HIspanics because there are those who cross the border illegally. Perhaps we should lock up all African-Americans because for the most part they rob and mug people. Perhaps next we should lock up all white college folks because they rape women. Why stop there? Let's move on to the Koreans because North Korea is doing some crazy crap. When does this line of thinking stop? Seriously Nate, you have some issues.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jaded Wolf
                        Let's be serious? This coming from a guy who is debating a fiction premise and the premise that all are guilty because of their associations. Look, you cannot lock people up because they have potential to be criminals. It doesn't matter if that is the current trend. It doesn't matter if it is even right by the government. Ecah person is called to serve a moral purpose and sometimes that means you have to go against the grain. Lex loxking people up and doing research on the basis that all meteor freaks are evil is ludicrous. Again I make the comparison between Hitler and the holocaust. I served in Iraq for a year and I hade to distinguish between innocvent Iraqis and the insurgents. Hard to do but one thing we did not do was say "they're all the same so waste them all." Do you not see how wrong that would be? It is the same situation. It is the same situation of saying we need to deport all HIspanics because there are those who cross the border illegally. Perhaps we should lock up all African-Americans because for the most part they rob and mug people. Perhaps next we should lock up all white college folks because they rape women. Why stop there? Let's move on to the Koreans because North Korea is doing some crazy crap. When does this line of thinking stop? Seriously Nate, you have some issues.
                        I served as a peacekeeper in Bosnia, and I saw what people that believe that "ends justify the means" do to others.

                        No thank you.

                        Comment


                        • Superman has broken so many speed limit laws on highways and such in America, he needs to go to prison!

                          I've seen Batman steal many important gadgets and items from villians in the series, and he did so illegally, he needs to goto prison!

                          Spiderman illegally litters webs all over the city, he should have to put them in the trash, he needs to goto prison!

                          Superheroes have special rules, because they are special.

                          Saving the world>Bureaucracy

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by TheoristMaximus
                            Superman has broken so many speed limit laws on highways and such in America, he needs to go to prison!

                            I've seen Batman steal many important gadgets and items from villians in the series, and he did so illegally, he needs to goto prison!

                            Spiderman illegally litters webs all over the city, he should have to put them in the trash, he needs to goto prison!

                            Superheroes have special rules, because they are special.

                            Saving the world>Bureaucracy
                            Sorry to nitpick, but Spidey's webs disintegrate after awhile.

                            Comment


                            • What gives you that impression? I've never seen that anywhere, but I'm not a super big spiderman fan either.


                              And it doesn't even matter, throwing disintegrateable objects (aka all things on earth) on the ground is littering, especially when it's in the quantity spiderman sprays it with.

                              If I had the exact same thing and I made a big web I just KNOW I'd get fined or something
                              Last edited by TheoristMaximus; 02-01-2007, 04:16 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Spidey's webs disintegrate after an hour.

                                ALso, not all things on Earth are biodegradeable. Styrofoam for instance, will still be around, long after I'm gone, you're gone, and your great grandkids are gone.

                                And even on another tangent, littering is the throwing of refuse on teh ground, not the throwing of anything on the ground. And even then, it's only if it's outside of a designated area. Spider-Man would more than likely be hit up for vandalism, rather than littering.

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