Should Clark have apologized to Lex?

[KryptonX81]

Re: Re: Should Clark have apologized to Lex?

Originally posted by ginnyfan
"Aqua" and "Cyborg" were instances where Lex didn't care about the well being of Clarks friends... well aquaintances/potential friends... So... Clark has a lot of reason to never give Lex the benefit of the doubt.

Im so sick of people bringing up aqua and cyborg. All I saw in those two episodes were,

-Lex detaining a radical eco-terrorist that cared more about his fish friends than the scientists and maintinence workers that would have been surely killed in the explosion

-Lex donating millions of dollars worth of advanced prothstetics to a kid that was maimed in an auto accident.

[wolverine316]

Let's be honest. Lex is a beyootch. Is this the 100th time he has told Clark he isn't allowed in the mansion but he comes anyway? Grow some stones Lex.

[BadToad]

Im so sick of people bringing up aqua and cyborg. All I saw in those two episodes were,

-Lex detaining a radical eco-terrorist that cared more about his fish friends than the scientists and maintinence workers that would have been surely killed in the explosion

For one thing, who is Lex to detain anyone? Shouldn't he be turning the guy over to the cops. Also, there's no way Lex would've known about the maybe explosion since Clark stopped it. So, Lex had no reason to fear for scientists or maint workers, since he didn't know about the bomb. And did you miss the whole strapping him down, taunting him with water, knowing that the lack of water was having a reaction on his body part? Strapping people down to tables and torturing them is sort of...whats the word?....sick? wrong? evil? sociopathic?

-Lex donating millions of dollars worth of advanced prothstetics to a kid that was maimed in an auto accident.

Against his will, with no consent, then keeping this kid in a lab, shackled. Then, having the doctor killed that set the kid free, recapturing the kid clearly against his will, then ordering a procedure that would take the kids free will away by planting a chip in his brain. What part of this would not be considered evil?

You want to donate and develop prosthetics? You go to a hospital, you find a volunteer, you treat that person humanely. What Lex did was flat out immoral.

As for Clark owing Lex an apology in this episode, my answer is no. I have a tendency to think Clark doesn't owe Lex on ounce of spit even if he was on fire. I do think going to the mansion served no purpose at all though.

[fa8362]

I don't get it. Lex shoots and stabs people to death multiple times, kidnaps people, imprisons people, performs experiments on people against their will, spies on people, constantly lies, etc and some of you claim he's not evil?????

[ginnyfan]

Re: Re: Re: Should Clark have apologized to Lex?

^IMO Lex is evil. LOL! I don't get it either.

Originally posted by KryptonX81
Im so sick of people bringing up aqua and cyborg. All I saw in those two episodes were,

-Lex detaining a radical eco-terrorist that cared more about his fish friends than the scientists and maintinence workers that would have been surely killed in the explosion

-Lex donating millions of dollars worth of advanced prothstetics to a kid that was maimed in an auto accident.

You forgot the part where he was going to add AC to 33.1 and the part where he was going to lobotomize Cyborg.

[KryptonX81]

33.1 is a place where mass murdering criminals are detained. You could easily put AC in there. Even if AC didnt actually succeed, he almost did.

And the whole cyborg chip thing is an emptey debate. The chip wouldnt lobotomize him. It is just that extreme emotions could interfere with his bionic implants (which he kinda needs to live). The chip would just calm him down whenever he got too upset or possible stop him from getting that upset in the first place. No diffrent from the idea of a pacemaker.
The chip wasnt going to make him a mindless slave.
To quote Lex, 'You watch too many sci-fi movies"

[BadToad]

33.1 is a place where mass murdering criminals are detained.

Says who? We actually have no idea who Lex has been detaining in Level 33.1.

You could easily put AC in there. Even if AC didnt actually succeed, he almost did.

Didn't look like anyone was in the lab when he set that bomb. Not to me. That still does make him a criminal though. And last time I checked, criminals get turned over to the authorities, not to a billionaire sociopath who wants to do experiments on them.

And the whole cyborg chip thing is an emptey debate. The chip wouldnt lobotomize him. It is just that extreme emotions could interfere with his bionic implants (which he kinda needs to live).

Except he told Lex to take the implants out. He didn't want them. In the good ol' US of A, you can't just go around forcing medical experiments on people even if you are deluded enough to think you are doing good. Its illegal for one thing.

And wait, we're taking Lex's word that this chip that he was going to forceably place in Victor's head, over his objections and with no consent, was just a harmless little pacemaker type thing to keep him calm? Because gosh, its not like Lex might lie about something like that or anything, right?

The chip would just calm him down whenever he got too upset or possible stop him from getting that upset in the first place.

So, the chip would alter his emotions and inhabit his natural impules and instincts? Oh, of course, who would object to something like that?

The chip wasnt going to make him a mindless slave.

Even if you believe that, I think the whole keeping him shackled in the lab thing would still be a gross human rights violation, in addition to being inhumane. Nor does it address the doctor that Lex had killed for helping Victor escape. Or, is it OK to have people murdered if they cross you?

[vikingjedi]

I think Lex has always been evil and like another poster said "is in the closet hiding it". Clark is basically saying "I know you're evil and Im going to expose you for who you really are".

Clark did go out on a limb saying Lex was responsible, but after all the other past events where Lex was the reason it happened I think Clark was right to accuse him. Lex IS the villian of the story.

[Saviour of Earth]

Its true Clark as done it a number of times but the vast majority of the time lex has been involved.

[driv-el]

Wasn't it shown Lex didn't know about the mole man?

If Clark hadn't tipped him off, Lex wouldn't have known about the man of the soil until after the fact (as if that changes things).

[KryptonX81]

Originally posted by BadToad
Says who? We actually have no idea who Lex has been detaining in Level 33.1.

Random accusations. No evidence to back it up. The only people we know for sure are in that lab are mass murdering criminals.

[Didn't look like anyone was in the lab when he set that bomb. Not to me. That still does make him a criminal though. And last time I checked, criminals get turned over to the authorities, not to a billionaire sociopath who wants to do experiments on them.[/B]

We didnt see any people in that immediate area or in that room. There were surely a bunch ofother people around.

[Except he told Lex to take the implants out. He didn't want them. In the good ol' US of A, you can't just go around forcing medical experiments on people even if you are deluded enough to think you are doing good. Its illegal for one thing. [/B]

Yea, Victor looked real happy and relieved when his implants were damaged and he was going to die.
And you could see the sadness and anger in his eyes when he went off to live a new life with his girlfriend.
Victor had no idea what the hell he wanted in that episode.

[And wait, we're taking Lex's word that this chip that he was going to forceably place in Victor's head, over his objections and with no consent, was just a harmless little pacemaker type thing to keep him calm? Because gosh, its not like Lex might lie about something like that or anything, right? [/B]

So now you are making huge accusations wihtout any evidence to back it up, just becuase you hate Lex. I happen to remember Clark doing that in this last episode, and he was wrong.

[So, the chip would alter his emotions and inhabit his natural impules and instincts? Oh, of course, who would object to something like that? [/B]

Once again, he still would be able to have emotions, it would just prevent him from getting way too worked up and out of control,
So he wouldnt die.
I dont think alot of people would object to that, seeing as there are thousands if not millions of people with pacemakers, which is the same sort of thing.

[Even if you believe that, I think the whole keeping him shackled in the lab thing would still be a gross human rights violation, in addition to being inhumane. [/B]

Yea, keeping someone in the hospitol to monitor them while they are possibly in critical condiotion. Can you believe the nerve of that guy?

[ginnyfan]

Originally posted by KryptonX81
33.1 is a place where mass murdering criminals are detained. You could easily put AC in there. Even if AC didnt actually succeed, he almost did.

And the whole cyborg chip thing is an emptey debate. The chip wouldnt lobotomize him. It is just that extreme emotions could interfere with his bionic implants (which he kinda needs to live). The chip would just calm him down whenever he got too upset or possible stop him from getting that upset in the first place. No diffrent from the idea of a pacemaker.
The chip wasnt going to make him a mindless slave.
To quote Lex, 'You watch too many sci-fi movies"

YIKES!!! I'll agree to disagree.

[BadToad]

Random accusations. No evidence to back it up. The only people we know for sure are in that lab are mass murdering criminals.

You have absolutely no proof of that either. I believe that the Vengeance Chronicles proved this assertion to be 100% false. And it STILL doesn't give Lex the right to detain them and perform experiments on them. Its ILLEGAL and IMMORAL, which is why we don't perform experiments on imprisoned felons in the USA.

We didnt see any people in that immediate area or in that room. There were surely a bunch ofother people around.

And we know the power of the bomb he was setting? And we know, even though there was no evidence whatsoever, that there were people in the area? The answer is no to both questions. But its neither here or there, as it still doesn't given Lex the right to detain and torture AC. It does give him the right to hand AC over to the authorities and press charges though.

Yea, Victor looked real happy and relieved when his implants were damaged and he was going to die.
And you could see the sadness and anger in his eyes when he went off to live a new life with his girlfriend.
Victor had no idea what the hell he wanted in that episode.

Even if thats true, this is Victor's right as a human being, and it still doesn't give Lex any right to make these decisions for him, or keep him imprisoned. And I thought Victor looked just fine and happy at the end, though he knew things would be difficult due to the medical experiments that had been done on him without his consent.

So now you are making huge accusations wihtout any evidence to back it up, just becuase you hate Lex. I happen to remember Clark doing that in this last episode, and he was wrong.

But you making huge accusations about the people in Level 33.1, or the damage AC might've done are completely based on fact? I don't think so, IMO. And I think its absolutely clear that Lex was involved in the murder of the doctor that freed Victor. If not him, then who? And I think Lex does bear some responsibility for what the moleman was doing. Lex didn't care at all that moleman was murdering people except that it endangered his project. And someone with that attitude deserves no apologies. IMO

Once again, he still would be able to have emotions, it would just prevent him from getting way too worked up and out of control,
So he wouldnt die.
I dont think alot of people would object to that, seeing as there are thousands if not millions of people with pacemakers, which is the same sort of thing.

I'm just doing to have to agree to disagree with you here, as I think the comparison you are making is so far from being accurate. But I don't think debating it is going to have a point.

Yea, keeping someone in the hospitol to monitor them while they are possibly in critical condiotion. Can you believe the nerve of that guy?

And if that person wanted to leave, you'd be all for shackling them? Once Lex fixed the implants, there was NO NEED to put anything in Victor's head to ensure his continuing life. The proof of that is that Victor is still alive, and making a return appearance on the show in fine form and health. And NO CHIP. Wow, how about that? Doesn't seem like a chip was necessary for him to live now, does it?

[diva]

Answering the thread question, this might be partly based on events that I know about that Clark (still) doesn't know about, but with everything that's happened, no I don't think he should apologize. Too much under the bridge to be bothered to at this point.

The Aqua/Cyborg conversation is certainly an eye-opener for me, because I would think something would be plainly obvious.

Forget about A.C. and Aqua for a moment, forget about the whole dead doctor thing in Cyborg (which I'm not convinced Lex actually had a part in)... Victor may or may not have been sure about other things, but to my eyes? He seemed pretty d*mn sure he didn't want someone drilling a hole in his head.

If you can't even see how doing something like that, when said victim is point blank telling you to your face that they DO NOT want this to be done to them, is unethical at the very least, then what's the point of even trying to have a debate? Because then you're not even in the same book, much less on the same page.

And none of that is about 'hating Lex' (and even if it were, that's fine because he's supposed to be the villain of this story eventually). It's about paying attention to what was shown in the episode.

[RMF]

Originally posted by Billy Jor-El
I'm still surprised that Clark even gets into the mansion. This time he was escorted by a guard. What? "Hi, it's me the stakler/alien, I want to yell at the bald guy again." I thought Lex doesn't want him there, so how does he keep gaining access?

No matter what Lex says, if Clark is stopped by security but then actually escorted inside, then Lex wants him there. Quite possibly he is enjoying these scenes, because that's when he gets to rub Clark's nose in things.