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[psycosis]

So Tom's big directing debut - had some nice touches, and was good to see Tom pushing his acting more - but the ep didn't really do much story wise and really at this point in the season they really should be pushing towards the main story arc.

Though I was glad it was touched upon, showing Lex helping Fine with the toxic blood and telling Lana about it - plus even better is the AOL blog spot he gets told about is "real" - you can find it at; http://journals.aol.com/prjctmrc2ldr...rcury#Entry930

And what about the kiss! How smug did Lex look!!!

Overall it was another filler ep that turned out well.

[Lex_Devotee]

I agree, another filler FOTW episode that turned out to be OK.

And did ya see Lana pounce on Lex at the end?! Whoa, down tiger!

I'm just hoping that we now don't have to watch Lana angsting about Lex for the remainder of the season. We've seen her do that about Clark for 5 years! Just like him if you like him, even if he is a brandy-swilling, snarky, evil megalomaniac SOB!

[Krypto500]

Hey psycosis, how's it going ...

Greetings Lex-Devotee, welcome to the UK thread.

I thought that it fit the 'filler' criteria pretty closely:

Freak of the Week - check.

Characters brought in for arbitrary drama, then killed off or written out before the 40 minutes are up - check.

More Clana drama - check.

Chloe saving the day with the whiz IT skills (you know how I like pointing out that one ) - check.

That said, I agree that it also had some stronger aspects to it: Clark's bond with Maddie (though it kind of felt like 'Ryan Part II'), Chloe's confrontation with Lex, Clark's thoughts on the distinction between a father and a dad.

On TW's directing: honestly, I'm not perceptive enough to tell the difference between his efforts and any other director's. Triplet points out in her review that in the opening scene Maddie's mother seems to stare at the mirror WAITING for it to smash - that's BAD. I felt the scene where Maddie's father shows up, the car windows break and the Social Services guy dies was a bit confusing (lots happened but the camera didn't seem to be in the right places) - that's BAD.

That said, I don't know if that's Tom's fault, or whether that lies with the Director of Photography or even the script & screenplay. Respect to Tom Welling, though: he stepped up to the bar and did a decent job in front of AND behind the camera. Hopefully he'll get a chance to do an episode with better material further down the road.

On the Lexana kiss ... psycosis, did you think he looked smug? I saw it as more of a devilish, scheming kind of smile. Which totally obliterates my theory that Lex really cares about Lana. After this, I'm leaning more toward the theory that he's only doing it to hurt Clark. Could be both, though ...

Weakest moment: the Lexana "I trust you 100%" garbage. Yes we know it's intended to contrast with the Clana trust issue, but come on - do they have to ram it down out throats? How stupid do the writers think we are?!

Strongest moments: Clark using his super-hearing to listen to Maddie talking to Shelby (because that was cute AND cool!), Lex ripping into Chloe ("I'm beginning to realise why you don't have a boyfriend ..." - now THAT was evil! GO LEX!!) ... Clark even got to do Superman-like things this episode: find 'the good' in Maddie and bring a felon to justice. Yay to Clark!

Any thoughts on Clark STILL not telling Martha about Lionel's discovery? "She's got enough to deal with" is a sorry way out of that one, IMHO.

[psycosis]

Welcome to our UK thread Lex-Devotee - hope to hear more from you.

Originally posted by Krypto500
Hey psycosis, how's it going ...

I thought that it fit the 'filler' criteria pretty closely.

On the Lexana kiss ... I saw it as more of a devilish, scheming kind of smile.

Any thoughts on Clark STILL not telling Martha about Lionel's discovery?

Hey Krypto500 - i'll let you know what i think of todays Lost.

Good run down on your thoughts about the ep - on TW directing like you say how much influence did Tom really have on the way this ep could go I’m not sure, though there were touches here and there (especially the scenes he was in) that you could tell was Tom's touch.

I didn't think the mom "waiting" was that bad or nearly as long as Triplet suggests - though I do agree with you on the editing and cutting of some of the scenes were a bit sharp and could have been angled better too - but in general it was no better or worse than a standard ep in my opinion.

Weakest moment - yes that was a bit contrived and forced - but perhaps slightly necessary to show Lana's reason for wanting to be with Lex.

Strongest moment - Clark was very Superman-ish - and Lex was very EVIL both good signs that the characters are moving in the direction intended for them.

Lex did look like things were finaly going his way - take out of that what you will, is he just glad to get some Lana action or is he useing her for some grand plan? - knowing Lex it's probibly a bit of both!!!

Clark looked like he wanted to tell her, but didn't have time to - I’m glad he hasn't let on yet, it means he can figure out what Lionel is up to (with the help of Chloe's amazing I.T. skills of course! ) without him realising Clark knows he knows.

Have you checked out the blog spot yet? It’s quite interesting, and gives some hints into what to expect from future Smallville ep’s without giving it away completely

[Lex Dance]

Hello everybody!

Welcome to you Lex_Devotee (hmmmm I can spot a theme on this thread......)

I wasn't really expecting much more than a filler from this episode when I heard that Tom Welling was directing - purely because I assumed the producers wouldn't entrust him with an episode of Reckoning/Splinter/Solitude/Oracle(?) proportions. That said I think he did a great job - even with a story that was effctively a rehash of Ryan (or was it Stray?). You've commented on certain bits of editing already and I've got to say me and my better half were screaming at Maddie's foster mother to move! Did you notice too that when Clark confronted her father in the Talon the editing went a bit awry? If directing a TV series is anything like the movies, then maybe TW was let down by his editor (who often have final cut). Then again, the editing has always been pretty good in the past! It reminded me a bit of when you watch the Second Chance Sunday pre-watershed version!!! Certain scenes I thought were very good, like the set piece in the barn - very X-Men! Plus the Lex scenes were suitably dark and amusing at the same time. What a put-down from Lex to Chloe! He's obviously gutted that she's in on the whole North Pole/Yukon trip! Anyone else getting an increasing sense of impending doom for poor old Chloe? The more she becomes like the REAL Lois Lane, the less chance I think she has of seeing Clark donning the tights and cape. Either that or my very shaky theory that she IS indeed the real Lois Lane will come true. It's a long story and maybe needs to be told on a different thread!
I know Lex and Lana getting together is somewhat dubious (and even causes offence on some threads) but I'm looking forward to Clark having a reason for hating Lana - I'm sorry Krypto, I know you hate this kind of talk!!! I just think it's high time that Lana does something nasty or morally dubious or contentious or whatever you want to call it.
All in all, pretty enjoyable. Oh and hands up if you thought Maddie looked more and more like Hermione from the Harry Potter films as the episode went on?

[psycosis]

Hey guys what's happning the thread is slow this week!

Originally posted by Lex Dance
I know Lex and Lana getting together is somewhat dubious, but I'm looking forward to Clark having a reason for hating Lana - I just think it's high time that Lana does something nasty or morally dubious or contentious or whatever you want to call it.

All in all, pretty enjoyable. Oh and hands up if you thought Maddie looked more and more like Hermione from the Harry Potter films as the episode went on?

I like the idea of Lex and Lana getting together - but i have a feeling it won't be any better than the neverending Clana we've been subjected to.
A really nasty Lana would be a refreshing touch - and i'm all for it too.

Can't say i ever though Maddie looked anything like Hermione, though she did change from creepy to cute every so often.

[Krypto500]

Originally posted by Lex Dance
What a put-down from Lex to Chloe! He's obviously gutted that she's in on the whole North Pole/Yukon trip!

Racking my brains trying to recall when Lex and Chloe have even SPOKEN this season after that initial bit in "Arrival". Can anyone think of a scene they had together? "Lexmas", but it was all a dream. "Reckoning" at the funeral, but Lex was the silent onlooker. "Tomb", I think there MIGHT have been a scene when Chloe was in the hospital, but perhaps Lex was only observing Chloe from outside the room?

Besides that, nothing springs to mind. Come to think of it, have Clark and Lex had a single scene together since "Cyborg"? This might be deliberate, to show how the two 'camps' are beginning to form? Clark/Chloe on one side, Lex/Lana on the other?

Anyone else getting an increasing sense of impending doom for poor old Chloe?

Don't say that, Lex Dance! You'll jinx the whole thing!

... my very shaky theory that she IS indeed the real Lois Lane will come true.

Not at all shaky! It's been argued very persuasively in several Chloe AND Lois threads. I adore Allison AND Chloe and find Lois the most annoying character on the show, so I'm all for what you suggest.

As I've mentioned in those other Chloe/Lois threads, though, there are a couple of issues: 1) copyright, because DC and the WB would have kittens if EDLois dies, 2) the "WTF?" factor, because casual viewers wouldn't get why the Lois they'd seen in "Superman Returns" suddenly got killed off on the TV show, only to re-appear on the big screen, 3) purist fans, who will whinge about how it's "not really" Lois and therefore a slap in the face to continuity, comic book lore, etc.

... I'm looking forward to Clark having a reason for hating Lana - I'm sorry Krypto, I know you hate this kind of talk!!!

Don't get me started!!

I know Lana can be a bit of a b%$*^ sometimes, but I don't think she should become "nasty" or "morally dubious". Well, maybe the second of those, because she's fairly weak-minded when it comes to her men and could be swayed by Lex.

But Clark would never hate Lana! Even if she hated him or helped Lex to conquer the world, Clark loves her and will forgive her for anything. And in the end, Lana will forgive HIM for anything as well, even the Secrets & Lies. That's why Clana RULES!

[love_sv]

Originally posted by Lex Dance
Oh and hands up if you thought Maddie looked more and more like Hermione from the Harry Potter films as the episode went on?

Absolutely! That's exactly what I was thinking! And they did the whole classic biz of making her look dark and ominous in the scenes before Clark saved her, then putting make-up on her and making her look all nicey afterwards! Like a Haze/Air-wick commercial, before and after!

Anyway, good episode as always! I enjoyed seeing all of the characters again. I usually really dislike the sugary "Clark finds an orphan like himself" stories like Ryan etc. but in this episode I found him to be so sweet and it made me think he would be a cracking father!

Racking my brains trying to recall when Lex and Chloe have even SPOKEN this season after that initial bit in "Arrival". Can anyone think of a scene they had together? "Lexmas", but it was all a dream. "Reckoning" at the funeral, but Lex was the silent onlooker. "Tomb", I think there MIGHT have been a scene when Chloe was in the hospital, but perhaps Lex was only observing Chloe from outside the room?

I was thinking about this too and I think the last Chloe and Lex scene was in "Mortal", in the caves. It's a shame they are few and far between because their scenes are always sparkling with electricity! Evil Lex in this episode - he was so smug in attacking Chloe. Grr, what does Lana see in him?

[Krypto500]

Originally posted by love_sv
in this episode I found [Clark] to be so sweet and it made me think he would be a cracking father!

Hi love_sv ... I had the same thought. That's TWICE in two seasons isn't it, the previous occasion being Clark's relationship with Evan in "Forever". Do you think the writing team are planning something there?

That, and the unresolved question of whether Clark can sleep with the love of his life without implications ... I'm not sure, but it just seems to add up.

We've not really mentioned this yet, but obviously there was a sub-text in the whole father/child drama; thought the way Maddie stood up to her father when she thought he was wrong might nicely foreshadow Clark standing up to Jor-El. Not sure if that will happen in the season finale, but if it does then this was a subtle precursor.

It's a shame they are few and far between because [Lex and Chloe's] scenes are always sparkling with electricity! Evil Lex in this episode - he was so smug in attacking Chloe. Grr, what does Lana see in him?

They sparkle, I agree, but I felt it was also important from a motivation standpoint. I mean, the last time Lex had anything to do with Chloe was in "Tomb" - and he was trying to HELP her!

Lex wanted to send Chloe to Belle Reve for her own safety. And the next time the two of them meet, Chloe's castigating Lex for 'taking advantage' of Lana after her bad break-up?! I mean, the least the writers could do for continuity's sake is have her say "Oh, by the way, thanks for trying to help me when I was acting suicidal!"

What does Lana see in Lex? Ooh, another chance to get inside Lana's head!

*channelling Lana psychically*

"I'm Lana - and I HATE being lied to! It makes me FURIOUS! But the bald man - well, he's rich, he's handsome, he's sophisticated, and he says he TRUSTS me! Oh, and he drives a Ferrari. THAT'S ENOUGH FOR ME! ... Ok, so he acted suspicious about my ex for years, and he can be mean, firing Chloe's dad at the plant, threatening me when he thought I had a mystic stone and telling me I'm crazy for seeing a spaceship and all ... And ok, so he's got issues with his dad and his dead brother and his dead mother ... But HEY! We've all got issues ... The important thing is, he TRUSTS ME! Like, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!"



I just need to reiterate that I am a Lana fan, and I still adore Kristin! REALLY!

[Lex Dance]

Originally posted by Krypto500

But Clark would never hate Lana!

Hi Krypto! Good to hear someone else is thinking along the same "Chloe is Lois" lines, but like you say, the producers would probably never go for it. Before that ending to one of the later episodes in S3, when Chloe used her cousin's name as a pseudonym, I'd harboured the idea that she might be the future Lois. So my jaw dropped when she used the name, only for the idea to be sent packing when Erica Durance joined the show. However, because Lois seems to show no sign whatsoever of becoming a journalist (other than hanging around the Daily Planet office) I started to dream again!!! Despite this I've got to say I like Lois' character - she's got some real chemistry with Clark and is the only one who sees him as the geek that he will have to become to hide his identity.
As for wanting Clark to hate Lana......you're right - he would never truly HATE her. I suppose I meant that I would like to see him angry and resentful towards her, just to make a change from all those understated conversations in the barn where they tell one another how let down they feel because they can't be totally honest!
It was interesting reading your take on Lex's intentions for Chloe in Tomb. I think Lex couldn't wait to get her into the lab to do some testing! I instantly imagined poor Chloe being subjected to all sorts of memory experiments (a la Memoria) - or worse!

You and love_sv are right about the whole lack of Chloe/Lex scenes - considering that they are two of the best actors on the show it seems strange to limit their appearances together (other than for the "2 camps" reasons you mentioned before). Hopefully this will be addressed by the end of the season - afterall, Lex saw her follow Clark into the white light last season. Surely he's desperate to know how she fits into THE TRUTH ABOUT CLARK KENT.

And they did the whole classic biz of making her look dark and ominous in the scenes before Clark saved her, then putting make-up on her and making her look all nicey afterwards! Like a Haze/Air-wick commercial, before and after!

Good one love_sv! Couldn't have put it better myself!!

[Krypto500]

Originally posted by Lex Dance
... Lois seems to show no sign whatsoever of becoming a journalist (other than hanging around the Daily Planet office) ...

Very true

Apparently the limit to which this show will go to to hint at her journalistic flair ends with Lois gazing gormlessly at the Daily Planet logo as an after-thought to a filler episode.

... I would like to see [Clark] angry and resentful towards [Lana], just to make a change from all those understated conversations in the barn where they tell one another how let down they feel because they can't be totally honest!

But he LOVES her! Lana can - and often DOES - say anything she wants to hurt Clark, but he'll only put on his guilty face and say how sorry he is for hurting her, and how he only wants her to be happy. She can treat him like garbage but in the end it's almost impossible to make him angry at her.

Darn it - now you've got me thinking about how they could do that and it's disturbing!

How about if Lana flayed Shelby? That'd tick Clark off no end.

Or if Lana organised a rave at the Fortress of Solitude and invited all her friends ... they get drunk, spray graffiti everywhere, melt the the ice a bit, stamp all over the crystals, leave popcorn on the special displays ...

It was interesting reading your take on Lex's intentions for Chloe in Tomb. I think Lex couldn't wait to get her into the lab to do some testing! I instantly imagined poor Chloe being subjected to all sorts of memory experiments (a la Memoria) - or worse!

It makes sense, and I think that's probably what the audience was MEANT to think; I just can't help seeing it from Lex's perspective, and in that instance I thought his actions came across as entirely benign.

Just a couple of thoughts to bring the discussion back to "Fragile" for a moment:

Any comments on the Jonathan references in this episode? I thought it was great that he's still on the show at least in spirit. It would be nice if his name could be thrown in every now and then and if Clark could make decisions based on the way he was raised by Jonathan. It was a decent tribute to John Schneider.

Milton Fine: doesn't he have super-hearing like the Kryptonians who created him? If so, shouldn't he be able to HEAR Lex's henchmen reporting on their walkie talkies that they've got him in their sights?

[psycosis]

Originally posted by Krypto500
Apparently the limit to which this show will to to hint at her journalistic flair ends with Lois gazing gormlessly at the Daily Planet logo as an after-thought to a filler episode.

Any comments on the Jonathan references in this episode? I thought it was great that he's still on the show at least in spirit. It would be nice if his name could be thrown in every now and then and if Clark could make decisions based on the way he was raised by Jonathan. It was a decent tribute to John Schneider.

Milton Fine: doesn't he have super-hearing like the Kryptonians who created him? If so, shouldn't he be able to HEAR Lex's henchmen reporting on their walkie talkies that they've got him in their sights?

While you’re on the subject of The Daily Planet......has anyone noticed that under the globe of The Daily Planet is a statue of a man with a slanted S on his chest holding it up!?

They have already had Clark talk about how he could hear his dad in his head, helping him make the right decisions - it's always good to show how Jonathan's influence has changed Clark - and any reference to show that he's not totally forgotten about is nice.

Yes Milton Fine does seem to have all the respective powers of an adult Kryptonian - so it all depends on how far away he is to them, but perhaps he did hear them, could be that not long after they said it they found themselves skewered!
(I’m sure I could make some kind of spike joke here - don't panic i won't!!!)

[Lex Dance]

Originally posted by Krypto500
Darn it - now you've got me thinking about how they could do that and it's disturbing!

How about if Lana flayed Shelby? That'd tick Clark off no end.

Or if Lana organised a rave at the Fortress of Solitude and invited all her friends ... they get drunk, spray graffiti everywhere, melt the the ice a bit, stamp all over the crystals, leave popcorn on the special displays ...

Evening Krypto! Great suggestions - if they ever decide to write a Bizarro episode they might look you up! I'm all for Lana organising a rave at the Fortress, as long as it gives us the chance to see Clark dancing again. Reading this forum I can't help thinking that that was the most celebrated scene in the whole of S4!

Originally posted by Krypto500
Any comments on the Jonathan references in this episode?

There was a large Jonathon versus Jor-el undertone in this episode, what with Maddie defying her father and Clark taking another stray under his wing. This worked in theory but the whole "isn't Clark good with children?" was a bit heavy-handed. Yes I know Superman is famed for his immense sense of humanity, but some of those Welling smiles were downright cheesy.
There is no doubt in anyone's mind that Clark must follow Jonathon's example - that's part of the mythology (and one of the ways in which Superman sets himself apart from Batman for instance). But one day the whole theme of rebellion will have to come to a head. It's through Jor-el that Clark is "trained" afterall, and at the moment I can't see Clark wanting to follow any this version of Jor-el's advice (a version obviously very different to previous TV or comic incarnations of the character). Jonathon Kent will continue to cast a benign shadow over the show and Clark's future - and that's only right - but I'm intrigued to know how Clark will ever be reconciled to his Kryptonian father. I loved Rosetta, particularly the final scene where Clark discovers that he's been sent to conquer, but is that really how their relationship can play out?

Originally posted by Krypto500
Milton Fine: doesn't he have super-hearing like the Kryptonians who created him? If so, shouldn't he be able to HEAR Lex's henchmen reporting on their walkie talkies that they've got him in their sights?

There's not been enough of James Marsters since Hypnotic so I'm hoping he makes up for it in the appearance stakes before the season ends. His scenes with Lex are always quality affairs! To be honest though, it's not his hearing I'm concerned about. Considering he's a supercomputer he's not the greatest at hide and seek - getting snapped by the press while sneaking around the jungle was a bit lax!

Originally posted by psycosis
While you’re on the subject of The Daily Planet......has anyone noticed that under the globe of The Daily Planet is a statue of a man with a slanted S on his chest holding it up!?

Good spot psycosis! I'll have to look out for that one next time it appears.

[love_sv]

Hi everyone. I'm agreeing with a lot that's being said here. My heart warmed when Jonathan was mentioned as well! This time I managed not to cry but it's so good to see Clark and Martha remembering and celebrating Jonathan. And the Jonathan vs. Jor-El theme, I also felt that strongly as well as the parallels between Clark's and Maddie's lives.

Good one love_sv! Couldn't have put it better myself!!

You're welcome, Lex Dance! I was only saying what we were all thinking!

Hi love_sv ... I had the same thought. That's TWICE in two seasons isn't it, the previous occasion being Clark's relationship with Evan in "Forever". Do you think the writing team are planning something there?

It would be lovely to see Clark being a father for real, but I can only dream!

[Krypto500]

Originally posted by Lex Dance
It's through Jor-el that Clark is "trained" afterall, and at the moment I can't see Clark wanting to follow any this version of Jor-el's advice (a version obviously very different to previous TV or comic incarnations of the character). ... I'm intrigued to know how Clark will ever be reconciled to his Kryptonian father.

Hi Lex Dance ... I find this particular story arc equally intriguing. It's one of the few aspects where I suspect Gough & Millar have a plan that stretches all the way to the show's conclusion.

Or at least I hope so

I've read threads of fans convinced that Jor-El is really just a super-strict father who rules with an iron hand because he knows the challenges his son faces and the resilience his son needs to develop in order to survive. I don't agree with this: I think Jor-El is, at this point in the show, as much of an adversary to Clark as Fine.

So I agree with you that it's difficult to see how there could be a reconciliation between Clark and Jor-El anytime soon. That said, you have to figure that the show's writing team KNOWS that, and that they have a story that will bring the characters together and result in the kind of mutual trust and respect that they have in the comics and films.

Originally posted by love_sv
It would be lovely to see Clark being a father for real, but I can only dream!

Hey love-sv! It's not such a far-fetched dream, is it?

Anything's possible on this show!