Lois is all about herself!

[MBCorp]

Excellent post, batfinx.

Originally posted by Chiriru
But, Pete was funny. Pete was compassionate. Pete wasn't mean unless he was on something. EDLois' humor is always at someone elses expense - I don't find it humorous, I find it *cruel.*

She's a rude nasty ingrate that depends on nepotism for everything in her life from her job to her living arrangements. It's really revolting when held up to Lois' of past years.

Unlike Lois, Pete was completely devoid of any sort of personality. He was boring. Personally I'd take Lois over Pete any day.

People must have thinner skins than me because I don't get Lois' humor as "cruel" or "nasty" or whatever. She's refreshingly blunt and says what she means. Sometimes she's a bit tactless but that's part of her charm. Personally I've found some of Chloe's sarcastic quips in the past to be alot more cruel than anything that Lois has ever said.

Not quite sure how the "nepotism" remark refers to Lois. She's not related to Martha in any way, and Martha hired her because Lois did such a good job with Jonathan's campaign. It would make sense that she'd hire someone who she knew would get the job done right. And I don't think people who go on about how "dumb" Lois is are giving her enough credit for the good work that she did on Jonathan's campaign.

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
If she does say something hurtful, it isn't intentional. She's frank, she says what she thinks. She doesn't tip toe around people. To me, in SV, that's a breath of fresh air. Sometimes she's awkward, but I don't recall her making any cruel remarks.

"Mean" people are intentionally hurtful. That's the difference.

Exactly. And it is a Lois Lane trait to be blunt and to say whatever she thinks. Just like it's a Lois Lane trait for her not to be overly impressed with Clark (at first).

[whiteflag]

I respect other people's opinions but, to me, this Lois comes across as mostly annoying and often mean, rude and ungrateful. Imo, of course.

But the main problem I find with the SV Lois is that she doesn't seem to serve any real purpose on the show. I think that most of the time they don't know what to do with her or how to fit her in the storylines.


*Hi Rumpuso xx*

[rumpuso]

Originally posted by whiteflag
But the main problem I find with the SV Lois is that she doesn't seem to serve any real purpose on the show. I think that most of the time they don't know what to do with her or how to fit her in the storylines.

I do wish they'd define a definite path for her if they intend to keep her on the show as a regular.

[Chiriru]

ED's Lois actually is an archetype

Not in Smallville.

There is a reason why Clark, Lex and Chloe are so popular. Television, movies, comics - these are our campires as my film teacher would say. Rather than oral tradition, it's mass media that shows us the stories about *us* as people. And as Joe Campbell would point out - Lex, Chloe, Clark... they are archetypal characters on traditional journeys. Stories about people (not just villians but men who fall, not just heros but guys who always try to do better, not just questioners but those who willingly want to know more/the truth) have been around for eons. They are things we see in ourselves and in each other.

Lana even, has somewhat of an archtypal role -- all thought it's not really as big as it should be on the show and ti is shared with by the Kents: the symbol of what is safe and normal and kind of who they were before they go on this journey.

In fact, I think you could put almost every major cast member into an archtypal role (sometimes gaining, changing, but in basic archtypal roles) except EDLois who is static. Even Pete has a natural, organic role that is defined -- and that's not a bad thing, that's a good thing. Archetypes make stories last -- Superman wouldn't work if it didn't tap into those archtypes, certainly not for 60 years and getting new retellings for every generation.

Now, Lois of the comics? SHE is an archtype, SHE has a role.

EDLois as pointed out time and time again *has no natural place in the narrative* - everything she does could easilly and more naturally be done by Lana, by Chloe, or by Clark himself. She's not calling Clark to action. She's not seting things in his way. She's not helping him grow. She's not holding him back. She's not doing anything - and by all the nepotism that she gets, she's not growing EITHER.

malgam of Lois Lanes throughout that character's history

She's a copy of the Modern Age Lois in terms of background and quirky behavior. Please point out another Lois who flunked out of HS. Or dropped out. Or was kicked out of college. Or whom leeched off the Kents. Or who worked in politics. Or in the state capital. Because as a long term comic fan, I've never seen any of that happen before.

That's harsh.

Not really - the buffoon is as close to an archtype as she has.

A ludicrous or bumbling person; a fool.

We're meant to laugh when she puts sunglasses on to "not get hypnoed." We're supposed to think it's hilarious that she'd open the door naked. We're supposed to think it's funny that she can out drink people or that she's an educational failure. That's laughing *at* her because what she does is foolish, not laughing *with* her because what she did is clever.

Sometimes her sarcasm crosses the line and becomes cruel. Sometimes she apologizes and other times she's unaware that she crossed the line at all.

We've seen it with Chloe - I'm not behind on my pancanon, I know about LnC and the movies. But I persoanlly think there is a really big difference in say, TH's "tone" than the "tone" they gave to ED. Same with the comics and the movies to ED. Her humor is cut down to the lowest common denominator ("Emphasis on CUT!") and it's generally unamusing.

"hack from nowhweresville"

I don't find that as cruel as dismissing him and his town and his family while depending on them for home, food, and jobs. People can get away with being meaner when they aren't dependant on the people they are being nasty too.

There's no nepotism since that means getting a job from a relative

Let's go to the dictionary:

nepotism

n : favoritism shown to relatives or close friends by those in power (as by giving them jobs)

(Dictionary.Com, the entry from Princeton University if you don't believe me.)

It IS nepotism. She didn't want the jobs, she didn't ask for the jobs, she was given the jobs because Martha and Jonathan liked her. Had they not liked her? She wouldn't of been hired. It's that simple.

Lois did such a good job with Jonathan's campaign

...by taking a money from a man Jonathan hated; by invalidating his stance as the non-Luthor canidate by being backed by Luthor money; and the confrontation because of her taking that money meant that he would have to pay for it (said so himself in Lockdown) instead of the people who actually CHOSE to invalidate his stance (Martha and Lois.) I'm sorry, that's not a good job no matter how loudly they say it on the show.

But the main problem I find with the SV Lois is that she doesn't seem to serve any real purpose on the show. I think that most of the time they don't know what to do with her or how to fit her in the storylines.

That's exactly the problem and exactly why on SV I don't believe they are writing her like an archtype because archtypes always have natural places in Hero's Journey's (which is what SV is).

[mmvmartha]

Lois personality is suppose to be like that.. Kind of nasty and snappy, the know it all basically.. So in a way its kind of nice to see a difference or comaprison to Lana because she is soo the opposite. I find that interesting and exciting in Lois character. Lana's character personality is a bit admirable because i could never be that passive.... Especially when the love of my Life dumps me for no good reason or he continued to lie to me without explanation.....

[whiteflag]

Great post, Chiriru!

[Miss L]

from Chiriru
...by taking a money from a man Jonathan hated; by invalidating his stance as the non-Luthor canidate by being backed by Luthor money; and the confrontation because of her taking that money meant that he would have to pay for it (said so himself in Lockdown) instead of the people who actually CHOSE to invalidate his stance (Martha and Lois.) I'm sorry, that's not a good job no matter how loudly they say it on the show.

Lois didn't take the money. Martha did. Lois didn't know it was from Lionel until she pulled Martha aside and asked her where the money was coming from. Lois can't be blamed for that.

I realize people invested in a show will see what they want to see and will have expectations that aren't met that distort their opinions. I'm sure that's true of me as well. But as Watching Smallvillle pointed out, if Lois says something that comes off as mean it isn't intentional. "Mean," "Nasty," and "Cruel," all have connotations of doing or saying something with forethought or consciously. Lois blurts stuff out without thinking. Stupid, yes. Cruel? No. For instance in Pariah her remark as Clark and Alicia came in to the Talon were not meant to be heard by everyone. She blurted before thinking about the mike being on. I'm sure a lot of people might have been thinking the same thing. Possibly even Chloe.

Lois herself has acknowledged her being quick to judge. But that still doesn't make her intentionally mean.

As for her place in this story, I guess that's AlMiles decision. Pete was a throw-away character who was used when an extra person was needed in the story. So is Lois. I don't think that Lois' part in Fade could have been logistically played by Chloe or Lana. Same in Aqua. Chloe has a different role in the storylines, so does Lana, and so does Clark. Go back and think through the stories that include Lois. Pull her out and replace her with one of the main characters. The stories won't work right. Lois may be peripheral, but the character is added when they need that other person. That the "other person" is Lois Lane, and that we all know who she eventually turns out to be kind of makes it fun. At least for me.

Also: Her getting a job at the Talon seemed like a normal step for someone who needs to make ends meet at a time in her life when she doesn't know what else she wants to do. She did take an active interest in Jonathon's campaign and that worked to her advantage. Her work must have suitably impressed Martha or Martha wouldn't have even considered her for a job. I think we could also argue that Chloe has done some things this season that some find hard to believe in the hacking/tech arena--not to mention getting a front page byline at this very early stage in her career. If Chloe can make leaps and bounds, why can't Lois?

Now if only Clark would follow suit.

[Watching Smallville]

One thing I like about Lois in the show is that she is the non-Smallville person in the mix. Lex would be, too, but his life was shaped by being in Smallville during the meteor shower. I like Lois as representing a different path for Clark, a new perspective, a new way of doing things. She gives the outsider's view of things, which I appreciate. I would have liked her to stay in Metropolis and not have so many Smallville connections.

[Kryptonian Snake]

Originally posted by Miss L
Lois didn't take the money. Martha did. Lois didn't know it was from Lionel until she pulled Martha aside and asked her where the money was coming from. Lois can't be blamed for that.

Yes she can. In Fanatic, Martha told Lois where she would get the money to fund Jonathan's campaign and said that Lois would have to keep it a secret from Jonathan. That's why, in Lockdown Lois kept avoiding the topic when Jonathan tried to ask her where she got the money.

[Miss L]

Originally posted by Kryptonian Snake
Yes she can. In Fanatic, Martha told Lois where she would get the money to fund Jonathan's campaign and said that Lois would have to keep it a secret from Jonathan. That's why, in Lockdown Lois kept avoiding the topic when Jonathan tried to ask her where she got the money.

How is that all Lois' fault and not (also) Martha's? In Lockdown Lois reluctantly confesses to Jonathon that the money came from Lionel. She left Martha out of the equation, essentially covering for her. Then Martha tells Jonathon that she took the money and makes a very compelling argument that everyone's campaign contributions should be viewed equally.

Of course taking money from Lionel would be problematic, but Lois was not responsible for actually accepting the contribution. She just used it the way any decent campaign manager would in order to benefit the candidate she represented. And in reviewing that part of Lockdown I was also reminded that being Jonathon's campaign manager was an unpaid position. So it isn't as if Lois was sponging off the Kents in that instance.

It's been kind of fun going back and rewatching to get my facts straight.

[Kryptonian Snake]

I didn't mean to imply that Martha wasn't also responsible. But Lois could have easily told Martha that she couldn't accept the money because it would contradict Jonathan's position as an opponent of serving "big business". If the public had known about the contribution, Jonathan would have been labelled a hypocrite or "flip-flopper" and he probably would have lost support. Even though I understood Lois' and Martha's arguments, integrity of a candidate is extremely important in a political campaign.

[Miss L]

I see your point. But in Lois' defense here, that just shows her youth and reinforces her penchant for doing/saying things before thinking it through. Martha should have known better.

I've enjoyed this thread, I hadn't realized how consistent the character of Lois has been (...for the mostpart, since nothing on Smallville is ever 100% consistent).

[Timester]

She plays "Dynasty Warriors". More then enough for me to like her.

[batfinx]

Not in Smallville

An archetype is basically a prototype, something upon which all future copies are based. That's why Clark, Lex, Lois and Lana are not archetypes, they are already based on established archetypes.

There is a reason why Clark, Lex and Chloe are so popular. Television, movies, comics - these are our campires as my film teacher would say. Rather than oral tradition, it's mass media that shows us the stories about *us* as people.

Popular is a relative term. It's clear that not all of these characters are universally popular even in their own fandom

EDLois as pointed out time and time again *has no natural place in the narrative* - everything she does could easilly and more naturally be done by Lana, by Chloe, or by Clark himself

I'm intrigued by the idea of Lois being in the political arena as a chief of staff and it seemed a logical evolution from campaign manager. It creates a believable situation where she can meet big shots and make contacts and people who will be future sources. I certainly see it as a more viable scenario than having sources at a high school paper.

She's not calling Clark to action. She's not seting things in his way. She's not helping him grow. She's not holding him back. She's not doing anything - and by all the nepotism that she gets, she's not growing EITHER

Why should Lois call Clark to action? She thinks he's a farm boy and even thinks she could take him in a fight. She'd take action and probably want Clark to stay out of her way. As for helping him grow, the best advice Clark ever got from any character on Smallville was Lois telling Clark "get over yourself"

Lois isn't Clark's sidekick and if she had to lead him by the hand into his future, he wouldn't be the man she falls in love with anyway.

She's a copy of the Modern Age Lois in terms of background and quirky behavior. Please point out another Lois who flunked out of HS. Or dropped out. Or was kicked out of college. Or whom leeched off the Kents. Or who worked in politics. Or in the state capital. Because as a long term comic fan, I've never seen any of that happen before.

Name a version of the Superman myth where Clark's arrival kills Lana's parents and the meteorites create mutants

We're meant to laugh when she puts sunglasses on to "not get hypnoed."

I thought she was smart trying to avoid being hypnotized.

We're supposed to think it's hilarious that she'd open the door naked

I did think it was funny when she opened the door naked

We're supposed to think it's funny that she can out drink people or that she's an educational failure

No, Clark thought it was funny she had to go back to high school. The drinking thing was a plot device so she could be arrested for paralyzing a guy she didn't paralyze.

That's laughing *at* her because what she does is foolish, not laughing *with* her because what she did is clever

I laughed with her when Clark was trying to get all mopey and said he was an outcast and Lois told him that was a shortcut to a wedgie

I think part of Lois's function as it relates to Clark on Smallville is to get "Skippy" to lighten up. I liked it when she said he was throwing a pity party for himself. I liked it when she threatened to tell everyone about his Elmer Fudd night light and Clark said "Aye, aye, sailor." She helps Clark find and use his sense of humor. I didn't even know he had one till she came to town.

I don't find that as cruel as dismissing him and his town and his family while depending on them for home, food, and jobs. People can get away with being meaner when they aren't dependant on the people they are being nasty too

You don't give any quotes from her. What specifically did she say?

It IS nepotism. She didn't want the jobs, she didn't ask for the jobs, she was given the jobs because Martha and Jonathan liked her. Had they not liked her? She wouldn't of been hired. It's that simple

The fact that Lois didn't ask for the jobs dilutes the premise of nepotism because when Lois poitned out the flaws in the other campaign manager's strategy, she wasn't plotting to take his job away from him. She knew he was trying to give Jonathan a makeover that didn't fit. That impressed Jonathan and he gave Lois the job. If it was purely a matter of nepotism, he'd have given Lois the job right from the get-go. He didn't.

by taking a money from a man Jonathan hatedby taking a money from a man Jonathan hated; by invalidating his stance as the non-Luthor canidate by being backed by Luthor money; and the confrontation because of her taking that money meant that he would have to pay for it (said so himself in Lockdown) instead of the people who actually CHOSE to invalidate his stance (Martha and Lois.) I'm sorry, that's not a good job no matter how loudly they say it on the show

Martha took the money and Lois took the blame until Martha confessed and even then Lois took her part of the blame because she used the money. I'm sorry, but I don't believe Martha invalidated Jonathan's stance at all. When Jonathan found out Martha accepted Lionel's contribution, he said that Lionel would be expecting favors in return.

Martha said: "You really think the Farmers Association, the Rotary Club and everyone else who gave you money won't be asking for favors? I know nothing is black or white especially in politics, but if you win this election you'll be able to help so many people who desperately need it. Please don't let your pride get in the way."

Later Jonathan did admit he'd let his pride get in the way and that he should have sold some of the farm property years ago that never got used. The truth is, Lionel would have gone directly to Lois and offered the money as he'd offered the Daily Planet to Chloe if tainting Jonathan with dirty campaign money was what Lionel had in mind. We know now that Lionel had something much better to control Jonathan with if that is what he intended to do. He had proof that Clark was very 'different' from other teenagers.

The contribution was to achieve the goal both Martha and Lois wanted, putting Jonathan on a level monetary playing field with Lex so Jonathan would have a fighting chance to win. Once Jonathan won, the money wasn't the issue for Lionel. He said: "Don't forget we both have a common interest. One we would protect with our lives. I have nothing but respect for a man who would deliberately hurl himself into the spotlight with such a dangerous secret that must stay hidden" and then showed Jonathan the photo.

She plays "Dynasty Warriors". More then enough for me to like her

Me too Lois is a total firecracker.

[IVODARK]

Originally posted by batfinx
Why should Lois call Clark to action? She thinks he's a farm boy and even thinks she could take him in a fight. She'd take action and probably want Clark to stay out of her way. As for helping him grow, the best advice Clark ever got from any character on Smallville was Lois telling Clark "get over yourself"

Lois isn't Clark's sidekick and if she had to lead him by the hand into his future, he wouldn't be the man she falls in love with anyway.

I laughed with her when Clark was trying to get all mopey and said he was an outcast and Lois told him that was a shortcut to a wedgie

I think part of Lois's function as it relates to Clark on Smallville is to get "Skippy" to lighten up. I liked it when she said he was throwing a pity party for himself. I liked it when she threatened to tell everyone about his Elmer Fudd night light and Clark said "Aye, aye, sailor." She helps Clark find and use his sense of humor. I didn't even know he had one till she came to town.

Good points.