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  • #61
    Originally posted by All about Clark
    Lana owes Clark her life, but her choices, good or bad, are her own and doesn't owe for that.

    That being said, Lana treated Clark terribly in the loft scene and even though she is bitter and upset, she shouldn't have been so mean to him.

    So Lois can treat Clark like dirt, but when Lana gets upset with him, she's being too mean? Lois is often mean/ rude to Clark, but only Lana gets criticized by some?

    Originally posted by hotkk
    I just want to put one thing straight. Lana did go to tell Clark that she was dating Lex. Yes Clark already knew because she waited a bit too long, but she didn't know that he knew. She did the right thing (it took her a while, but she still did).

    Then, Clark told her not to get involve with Lex. But Clark has no reason to say that, no matter how many times he saved Lana. Because he broke with her, she can do whatever she wants and he has nothing to say. That's why she was mad and rightfully so.

    Do not forget that we can assume that their are not friend anymore since Clark has been really harsh (and don't tell me CK was protecting her... I know, I watch the show. But Lana doesn't know). So it was not a good time for Clark to tell her what to do.

    I know most people who watch the show love Clark and Superman (I DO too!). But CK is far from flawless in this particular situation!

    Peace

    I'll say word again. So people are upset that Lana didn't make the right decision until the end of the episode? I mean, does she get any credit for actually doing the righ thing at all? Please. Which character on this show is perfect? Which one always makes the right decision at the right time? I think Lana gets picked on unfairly sometimes.
    Last edited by cotton candy girl; 05-02-2006, 03:23 PM.

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    • #62
      I think people are hard on Lana because she seems to expect from other people what she doesn't give herself. She lectures Clark about honesty when she's not honest with him. And yes, Clark was hard on Lana, but she set herself up. When he said his feelings had changed, she shouldn't have told him to look her in the eye. It turned the conversation into a confrontation. It didn't have to be that way.

      I think if Lana hadn't acted like telling Clark was her idea, instead of Lex's, people wouldn't be as upset. Again, it was a dishonest thing to do, and then she gives him a lecture about honesty.

      I don't blame her for being hurt and angry. I would be, too. Maybe I'd be worse. I sympathize with Lana. But it doesn't mean I can't recognize that she's not handling things as well as she could.

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      • #63
        I think Lana told Clark to look her in the eye because she didn't believe him. People sometimes say that when they think someone's lying to them. And he STILL lied to her, saying he doesn't love her. Anyway, I don't fault her for wanting him to look her in the eye.

        And I don't really care if Lex prodded her to tell Clark she's dating him; she told him. I don't remember exactly what she said to him, but she doesn't have to say "Lex told me to tell you". But that's just mho.
        Last edited by cotton candy girl; 05-02-2006, 03:43 PM.

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        • #64
          It wasn't that she should have said "Lex told me to tell you", it was holyer than thou attitude, like she was better than him, treating him like the bad guy. And the hero line was really upsetting, because she knows Clark likes to run around helping people and to say that was an insult especially since being the hero has saved her life dozens of times.

          Lois has been mean to Clark in the past, and I don't forgive her for that, however, as she spends time with him she has softened up a little, granted she needs to soften up some more.

          But Clark knows Lana far better than Lois and Lana knows he tries to do the right thing. I just wanted Lana to cut him some slack for being there for her the past 5 years, which Lois can't relate to.

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          • #65
            Lana does know Clark better than Lois does, and he has hurt her far worse than he has ever hurt Lois. He has been derelict in not telling her his secret, imo. He's still so immature, even in the way he broke up with her. Why didn't he just tell her that he still loves her, but they can't be in a relationship? Why lie to her? She was hurt. What does she owe Clark now, as far as leading her everyday life goes? She's thanked him for saving her life. And no doubt when Chloe wasn't in on the secret, she was hard on Clark as well.
            Last edited by cotton candy girl; 05-02-2006, 04:18 PM.

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            • #66
              You can't break up with someone by saying, "I still love you." It just doesn't work.

              Clark should have broken up w/ Lana or told her his secret in Mortal, as far as I'm concerned. Hidden was his absolute last chance to be upstanding on the issue, and he messed up. No question. That's why it ended the way it did.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Watching Smallville
                You can't break up with someone by saying, "I still love you." It just doesn't work.

                Clark should have broken up w/ Lana or told her his secret in Mortal, as far as I'm concerned. Hidden was his absolute last chance to be upstanding on the issue, and he messed up. No question. That's why it ended the way it did.
                I'm pretty hard on Clark overall for not sharing his secret earlier, but I tend to give him a little slack for Hidden and its aftermath. The revelation that someone was going to die because of the choices he had made was pretty devastating. I mean, he didn't even tell his parents that part of it so he was definitely struggling with the whole issue, and that kind of emotional turmoil and future uncertainty was probably not the best foundation for that kind of life-changing revelation. After things settled down, it seemed natural that he would tell her when he did... and then it all went to hell. He had his reasons for not telling her after Reckoning, and he spelled them out pretty clearly to Chloe, but I still didn't (and don't) like it. But whatever, it's not MY secret...

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                • #68
                  I'm going to have to respond to the fact that people think that Lana lies and is deceitful, because after watching some episodes over again, I don't view Lana as that kind of person. She may show some flashes of it, but it's not as blatant as everyone makes it out to be, at least in my opinion. I'll start with Commencement and work my way forward to Reckoning. Lana approached Clark and told him that she did something really terrible and that she couldn't leave with Clark's parents. Again, Lana did not tell Clark the truth about what she did, but she did mention something. She then hands Clark the stone with blood on it and tells Clark that the stone was meant for him, how she knows is ridiculous and is a major plothole, but that's what happened. From Clark's standpoint, he must have known at that point that a) that was what JorEl was talking about when he told Clark that human blood has stained one of the elements, and b) that Lana was responsible for it because she had the element in her possession. So the idea that Clark has no idea about Jason's mother isn't necessarily true because he must know that Lana had a part in the blood being on the stone. Alright, so now we get to arrival where Lana has not told Clark about Jason's mother and has not told Clark about the fact that Lex covered the murder up for her. At the end of Arrival, she tells him that she saw a spaceship in the crater. At the start of Mortal, Lana tells Clark that there were so many things that she hasn't told Clark and Clark promptly tells her that what both of them have done is in the past now. So I really don't know how to jump all over Lana, at this point, about not telling Clark about Jason's mom or the fact that Lex covered it up. To go off topic for a minute, the problem that I have with Clark in Mortal is that he has sex with Lana without telling her that he is an alien. He didn't have powers at that point, he didn't think that he was going to get his powers back so there is absolutely no reason not to tell Lana about it before they had sex. And then, compounding that issue, once Clark gets his powers back, he immediately pulls away from Lana. Now I can't be as brutal about this as the girls/women on this board because I'm a guy, but my guess is most girls out there would be furious if their boyfriend has sex with them all of the time for probably around 3 months, and then all of a sudden is afraid to touch them again. It took Lana until Fanatic to finally push the issue with Clark, and he turns it around on her with her fascination with astronomy, and getting back on topic, Lana blatantly deflects what Clark says, and without actually saying anything, lies about what she really is doing with the books. Then at the end of Fanatic, Lana comes clean about researching the meteor shower and shares her findings with Clark. Again, Lana told lies, but in time, she owned up to it.

                  The last part of this post is about Lex and Lana and how it relates to Clark. I do think that Lana has lied about her affiliation with Lex, especially concerning the spaceship, but I want to take this from the Clark angle. Clark must know that Lana was still very close to Lex during the first half of season 5. Lana might have been lying to Clark about it, but Clark saw Lana with Lex in Splinter, of course the images that he saw were incorrect but she still went to Lex for help when Clark went insane, he also saw Lana with Lex in Lockdown, particularly when he saw them in the hospital room. I mean Clark saw Lana hugging Lex for goodness sakes, doesn't that tell him something? So what I don't get is how Clark proposes to Lana in Reckoning knowing full well that Lana still had a tight relationship with Lex from Splinter and most recently in Lockdown? Furthermore, being that is the case, how does Clark not tell Lana in Reckoning about Lex. I mean, Clark must know something is up between them, not romantically, but the fact that Lana was still seen with Lex during a year where Clark and Lex were enemies should've raised a red flag in Clark's head before he was quick to propose to her without setting her straight about Lex. And I'll be clear about this, I think it is completely Lana's fault that she is still hanging around Lex in season 5 and I don't fault anyone but her, except for Lex because he knew how to reel her in. I know this is a long post with a lot of issues so feel free to rip it apart.
                  Last edited by myankskent; 05-02-2006, 05:29 PM.

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                  • #69
                    I agree with what you said about Lana mostly coming clean with Clark. She even wanted to talk about the spaceship and he wouldn't talk about it with her. If he'd talked about the spaceship with her, telling her might have had some context--especially when she said (paraphrasing), "What if, in the first meteor shower, there was a ship and whoever came in it has been with us all this time..." When he didn't say anything at that point, I just wanted him to break up with her and move on.

                    I mean, Clark must know something is up between them, not romantically, but the fact that Lana was still seen with Lex during a year where Clark and Lex were enemies should've raised a red flag in Clark's head before he was quick to propose to her without setting her straight about Lex. And I'll be clear about this, I think it is completely Lana's fault that she is still hanging around Lex in season 5 and I don't fault anyone but her, except for Lex because he knew how to reel her in.
                    This is where I think Clark just hatched the proposal scheme and decided to tell her because--as he said--he felt her slipping away. It wasn't that he trusted her at that point, he just didn't want to lose her--or lose her to Lex. His act of desperation shows just how much he realized that Lana and Lex were getting kind of tight. I don't think it occured to him to tell her about Lex, he just wanted to not lose her. Then, when the whole debacle that was Reckoning happened, he must have realized inwardly not only that Lana knowing his secret would put her in danger because of Lex, but also that he really couldn't trust her with the secret. At least that's where my head's at with that whole situation now. (Could change)

                    So, one the one hand, she doesn't owe him anything beyond telling him that, yes, she's with Lex now. She has been more honest with Clark than he has been with her. And even though down deep inside she must know how many times over she owes her life to Clark, that info hasn't made it to the conscious part of her brain yet. Lana is self-centered. It's who she is. Like Clark, I don't think she really reasons things out. I think they're both pretty reactive. I hope that changes soon, especially with Clark. Lex ponders over things...plots, ruminates, plans. He really is the antithesis of Clark. ...Maybe that will have a positive effect on Lana.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by jwoodie
                      I'm pretty hard on Clark overall for not sharing his secret earlier, but I tend to give him a little slack for Hidden and its aftermath. The revelation that someone was going to die because of the choices he had made was pretty devastating. I mean, he didn't even tell his parents that part of it so he was definitely struggling with the whole issue, and that kind of emotional turmoil and future uncertainty was probably not the best foundation for that kind of life-changing revelation. After things settled down, it seemed natural that he would tell her when he did... and then it all went to hell. He had his reasons for not telling her after Reckoning, and he spelled them out pretty clearly to Chloe, but I still didn't (and don't) like it. But whatever, it's not MY secret...
                      I give Clark no slack on this point. And I love Clark. But he messed up.

                      You don't have sex w/ Lana without telling her. Maybe he thinks he's mortal, he should still tell her. No excuses.

                      Then, for crying out loud, you don't stop having sex with Lana without telling her why. How cruel, just plain cruel and selfish.

                      Either fish or cut bait. Tell this poor girl, or leave her alone.

                      So, even though I think Lana's attitude is bitter, I give no passes to Clark. I just don't see the problem as being the break-up in Hypnotic. He handled that correctly, IMO. But what went before -- he gets no slack for that.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Miss L
                        This is where I think Clark just hatched the proposal scheme and decided to tell her because--as he said--he felt her slipping away. It wasn't that he trusted her at that point, he just didn't want to lose her--or lose her to Lex. His act of desperation shows just how much he realized that Lana and Lex were getting kind of tight. I don't think it occured to him to tell her about Lex, he just wanted to not lose her. Then, when the whole debacle that was Reckoning happened, he must have realized inwardly not only that Lana knowing his secret would put her in danger because of Lex, but also that he really couldn't trust her with the secret. At least that's where my head's at with that whole situation now. (Could change)
                        I like what you've said here. It's how I view it too.

                        Originally posted by Watching Smallville
                        I give Clark no slack on this point. And I love Clark. But he messed up.
                        Actually I do cut him slack for this. He's devastated that he's going to lose someone he loves, and he's suppose to tell Lana his secret then. She would want to know why now are you telling me this, just like she did in Reckoning. If he came clean then he would have to tell he's scared of losing her due to his own actions. No, he kept it from her then just as he kept Jor-el's warning from his parents. I also don't fault him for not telling her in Mortal, because it may have never been an issue if he stayed human.
                        Last edited by All about Clark; 05-02-2006, 07:56 PM.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Watching Smallville
                          I give Clark no slack on this point. And I love Clark. But he messed up.

                          You don't have sex w/ Lana without telling her. Maybe he thinks he's mortal, he should still tell her. No excuses.

                          Then, for crying out loud, you don't stop having sex with Lana without telling her why. How cruel, just plain cruel and selfish.

                          Either fish or cut bait. Tell this poor girl, or leave her alone.

                          So, even though I think Lana's attitude is bitter, I give no passes to Clark. I just don't see the problem as being the break-up in Hypnotic. He handled that correctly, IMO. But what went before -- he gets no slack for that.
                          No slack? Not even a little bit? :P

                          Overall, given their history, he should have told her way before this season. But I look at this like I look at a lot of frustrating Lana things: TPTB have a plan for how things should go, the writers map out that plan from episode to episode, and Clark telling her has not been a part of that plan. So at virtually every point where he *should* have told her, the situation has been such that Clark had a good reason for not telling her. So who's fault is that? I have a hard time getting too frustrated with *Clark* when his character's motivations are decided by commitee. I view a lot of the lame things with Lana in the same way.

                          So I guess I look at him not telling her this time because of the exchange-your-life-for-someone-you-love deal with Jor-El the same way I view him not telling her when Pete got worked over because he knew Clark's secret. It's always the same basic motivation, even if, overall, it's kinda ridiculous that he hasn't told her up to now.

                          So that's how I feel, but I won't even try and argue with any of your points because they're all essentially correct (as usual... you'd think just by law of averages you'd make an unsupportable argument every now and then). I even wanted to take issue with you for saying he handled the break-up correctly. But I guess he did, it was just from Lana's perspective that it was so out-of-left-field and utterly devastating. From Clark's perspective, he made his decision not to tell her, period, in Reckoning, and Hypnotic was the natural, inevitable evolution of sticking to his guns. So, I guess you're right again...

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Watching Smallville
                            I think people are hard on Lana because she seems to expect from other people what she doesn't give herself. She lectures Clark about honesty when she's not honest with him. And yes, Clark was hard on Lana, but she set herself up. When he said his feelings had changed, she shouldn't have told him to look her in the eye. It turned the conversation into a confrontation. It didn't have to be that way.

                            I think if Lana hadn't acted like telling Clark was her idea, instead of Lex's, people wouldn't be as upset. Again, it was a dishonest thing to do, and then she gives him a lecture about honesty.

                            I don't blame her for being hurt and angry. I would be, too. Maybe I'd be worse. I sympathize with Lana. But it doesn't mean I can't recognize that she's not handling things as well as she could.
                            BINGO! I'd say "WORD" but that's starting to sound so dated to me.......One might as well just start saying "Right On!" or "Groovy". Anyway.....excellent post. This is so on the money.....in fact, when Lana is being so nice to Lex in the hospital ("Bringing you some comfort") I actually feel sorry for her.....until I rememeber everything you mention in your post.....then suddenly......the auto pilot in me switches back to "annoyed" mode.
                            Last edited by CK&CK; 05-02-2006, 09:16 PM.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by jwoodie
                              No slack? Not even a little bit? :P
                              Nope. None.

                              Maybe an eeennnsy weeennsy teeeeensy tiny little itsy bitsy slack for not telling her in Mortal.

                              Seriously, I thought it was dishonorable. It really bothered me during the eps between Hidden and Hypnotic. Even with what Clark learned from Jor-El, he owed Lana an explanation of why their relationship suddenly changed. Imagine how rejected she must have felt. It was unfair to her. Now that I think about it, no wonder Lana's so po'd.

                              Originally posted by CK&CK
                              I actually feel sorry for her.....until I rememeber everything you mention in your post.....then suddenly......the auto pilot in me switches back to "annoyed" mode.
                              I do exactly the same thing -- I go from feeling sorry for Lana to being annoyed at her! I guess TPTB are doing something right.
                              Last edited by Watching Smallville; 05-02-2006, 09:34 PM.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Watching Smallville
                                I give Clark no slack on this point. And I love Clark. But he messed up.

                                You don't have sex w/ Lana without telling her. Maybe he thinks he's mortal, he should still tell her. No excuses.

                                Then, for crying out loud, you don't stop having sex with Lana without telling her why. How cruel, just plain cruel and selfish.

                                Either fish or cut bait. Tell this poor girl, or leave her alone.

                                So, even though I think Lana's attitude is bitter, I give no passes to Clark. I just don't see the problem as being the break-up in Hypnotic. He handled that correctly, IMO. But what went before -- he gets no slack for that.
                                Bottom line for me on Clark.........

                                Boy from Planet Krypton lands on earth.

                                Boy from Planet Krypton loses powers on earth.

                                Boy from Planet Krypton goes to bed with girl from earth.

                                Boy from Planet Krypton still doesn't realize that he's not from Planet Earth!

                                What does this mean? It means that this boy from Planet Krypton is too "stupid" to realize that he's still not from Planet earth.....and as such.....he is still not human......he is a damn Alien for crying out loud! At which point this DUMB EXTRA TERRISTRIAL is still clueless enough to think that it's okay to not tell Lana this little obscure FACT!

                                This is my only real quibble with Clarkie with regards to Lana.....well, that and so much for the "Old Fashioned Values" that the Kents FAILED to instill in their son........but that's what TPTB get when they try to make a politically correct teenager out of our future "Superman". "Super"?.....what an off/on type of ironic joke that's become to me during this show........Smallville's Clark Kent only has flashes of "Super".......(except for his blatent powers....but that's not what I'm reffering to)......mostly.....he's just "Super" in name only. Very different from the Freshman/Sophmore Clark Kent that sold me on to this show.....if it weren't for Chloe or Lionel.....maybe even Lois......I'd know I would have stopped watching a long time ago.

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