Kryptonians Are Not Gods!!!

[WangTang]

Originally posted by norman619
LOL!!! He does things that to a primitive race (Humans) seem godlike but please don't mistake this for signs of him/them being gods. We would appear as gods to cavemen with our medical and wep technology. He is being honest. They are not gods just a race with a better understanding of the universe with cooler toys than we have. I don't see how you guys keep thinking his actions contradict his not being a god.

well does Jor-el not call us "Mortals". Heck an entire episode was called "Mortal" after Jor-el "Took" Clarks powers. But here the real question why can't Braniac [Kryptons main computer]. Why can't he do such magical things. He is basiclly all Kryptons Knowlege and technology. He was much smarter then Jor-el ever was. All Fine could do was mimic basic powers of sun abosrbed Kryptonians. He could not steal Clarks powers, or do the other godly things Jor-el does. He couldn't even beat Clark.

[Rey-El]

Originally posted by norman619
LOL!!! He does things that to a primitive race (Humans) seem godlike but please don't mistake this for signs of him/them being gods. We would appear as gods to cavemen with our medical and wep technology. He is being honest. They are not gods just a race with a better understanding of the universe with cooler toys than we have. I don't see how you guys keep thinking his actions contradict his not being a god.

I dont care who you are or how smart you are. Manipulation of Space and Time is a God-like ability. One which shouldn't be taken lightly, especially to make your son feel better.

Clark Kent was raised as a human being despite his Kryptonian heritage. He needs to find human solutions to normal human problems or tragedies. How else is he going to learn how to become a man or in this case a Superman if his Fairy Godfather keeps hitting the rewind button? Sometimes bad things happen and there's nothing you can do about it. Case in point: Krypton! However those life lessons mean nothing if space daddy can just magically fix them!

Clark Kent is becoming the interstellar equivalent of Paris Hilton. Everything he wants with no work.

[jazzylg]

Refer to my last post.

[WangTang]

Originally posted by jazzylg
Refer to my last post.

once again "we are not gods" implys their technology must have earthly limits. Brainiac/Fine couldn't do to do half the things Jor-el could do.

[HalJordan4184]

Wow, if warping space time, completely changing a beings DNA with a flash of light, and all of that isn't godlike ot a Kryptonian, I'd hate to think what is.

Technology is one thing. But technology, has to have an explanation. and the only explanation we can come up with, is magic. Kryptonian magic is what's doing this. That, and the fact all of the acts, of magic, are being performed by a dead guy. I don't know if you get more godly than a dead man manipulating space time, to fix mistakes he never could have known his son would make.

[norman619]

Originally posted by Rey-El
I dont care who you are or how smart you are. Manipulation of Space and Time is a God-like ability. One which shouldn't be taken lightly, especially to make your son feel better.

Clark Kent was raised as a human being despite his Kryptonian heritage. He needs to find human solutions to normal human problems or tragedies. How else is he going to learn how to become a man or in this case a Superman if his Fairy Godfather keeps hitting the rewind button? Sometimes bad things happen and there's nothing you can do about it. Case in point: Krypton! However those life lessons mean nothing if space daddy can just magically fix them!

Clark Kent is becoming the interstellar equivalent of Paris Hilton. Everything he wants with no work.

There is no such thing as God-like abilities. There are technbologies that allow you to do things we mistakenly thought were beyond our ability to do. It's small thininking to refer to anything we can't do as being "godlike." This is why Jorel told Clark he'd be a God among men here on earth. We haven't matured past such concepts. Our own sciences are getting to the point where we will be doing things you call godlike. Creating life and matter, timetravel, correcting our own DNA basicly recreating ourselfves, and who knows what else. Will this make us gods? Or even demigods? Nope.

Clark didn't get anything from his timetravel stunt. He still lost one of the 2 people that were the closest to him on the planet. His problem is his attachment to his nonexistant humanity. He's not human. He will never be human no matter how much he wants to be. He will not have to deal with most of the regular stuff a human has to deal with. He is an alien not a god. How do you equate him with Hilton? She gets everything she wants. Clark does not. Even in this past episode he didn't get what he wanted. I'm pretty sure he'd want the man he has called father to be alive with him. Jorel was teaching him the sad fact that people he cares for will die and he has no power to change that.

[watcher4]

Originally posted by Rey-El
Clark Kent is becoming the interstellar equivalent of Paris Hilton. Everything he wants with no work.

Agreed!

[norman619]

Originally posted by WangTang
well does Jor-el not call us "Mortals". Heck an entire episode was called "Mortal" after Jor-el "Took" Clarks powers. But here the real question why can't Braniac [Kryptons main computer]. Why can't he do such magical things. He is basiclly all Kryptons Knowlege and technology. He was much smarter then Jor-el ever was. All Fine could do was mimic basic powers of sun abosrbed Kryptonians. He could not steal Clarks powers, or do the other godly things Jor-el does. He couldn't even beat Clark.

Yeah and your point?
Think in terms of locations. Here on Earth or in our solar system Kryptonians are pretty much immortals. They don't get sick, don't age, and are impervious to physical harm most of the time. Away from here they are not as durable. Mortal means subject to death and a few other things. So we sure as hell are mortal since we die very easily. So yeah Jorel was correct.
As for Brainiac, chalk that one up to bad writing. Clark should have never won that battle. It was sorta like pitting an 18 - 19 year old up against a UFC champion or a seasoned Ninja. If the battle bewteen Clark and Brainiac took place in real life Clark would NOT have won plain and simple. He won pretty much because if he lost there would be no more show. Unless they'd continue the show with the misadventures of Zod and his sidekick Brainiac. :-)

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
Wow, if warping space time, completely changing a beings DNA with a flash of light, and all of that isn't godlike ot a Kryptonian, I'd hate to think what is.

Technology is one thing. But technology, has to have an explanation. and the only explanation we can come up with, is magic. Kryptonian magic is what's doing this. That, and the fact all of the acts, of magic, are being performed by a dead guy. I don't know if you get more godly than a dead man manipulating space time, to fix mistakes he never could have known his son would make.

Everything in the multiverse has an explinattion. Everything obeys whatever physical laws there are that govern our physical reality. Just because we don't currently understand those doesn't make them anything more or less than what they are. And that is natural phnomena or "man made" phenomena. Magic only exists in the minds of those that lack the ability to look for the real reasons for abilities/events they witness.
The Jorel we see on the show is not the Jorel that died on Krypton nor is it his ghost. It's a highly advanced AI with full access to Kyptonian technology. It's programmed to act like the original Jorel.
How did it fix anything for Clark? It resusitated him and gave him the option of going back in time to fix something he thought he could fix. The show has shown the AI to be forward thinking. Do you actually think it would do anything to potentially kill Clark? No way. It only did what it did to allow clark a taste of "normalcy." To see how the other half lives. To further illustrate how different he is from humans. :-) We do not know to what extent it changed Clark. His "death" may have been a simulated death for all we know. If you listened to Jorel's lecture to Clark in this past ep he warned him. He knew more than he told Clark. It was all part of the lesson. Jorel allowed it only because he knew it would really change nothing.

[Rey-El]

Sometimes people are so in love with things that they fail to see the flaws.

Example.

Jor-El's entire personality is wrong. In past episodes he's not only subjected clark to child abuse (Searing his chest with a laser!) kidnapped a human girl and played with her DNA but threatened to kill Johnathan Kent if CK didnt obey. Does that sound like a benelovent all loving father? You'd think someone as "Advanced" as him Artificial Intelligence or not would have found a more subtle way of explaining things to his one and only son.

And you know what...Jor-El shouldn't be warning Clark Kent about anything! That right there is another supernatual ability, Precognition!

"Precognition a form of extra-sensory perception which allows a "percipient" to perceive information about future places or events before they happen (as opposed to merely predicting them based on deductive reasoning and current knowledge)."

I dont know about the rest of you but in my book the only person who should know when a person is going to die should be GOD. How the heck does a automated machine do that? Kal-El listen to me carefully for I know tomorrows Lotto numbers! He's not supposed to know anything like that. The most he should be able to do is explain to clark that people you love are going to die in time and you NEVER know how long you have with them so cherish every moment. Not only that but indirectly Phantom Jor-El is responsible for that Fake Kryptonian Kara killing that FBI officer so yeah he is capable of murder or at least being an accomplice to it.

ALSO...Clark doesnt need to learn anymore lessons about losing people. He's already lost, Ryan, Pete, that indian girl he was crushing on, that teleportation girl. Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss! Year ended for Lesson. Time to Learn something new. Like not being a cry baby when bad things happen. Shut up, Step up, and be a Superman.

They should have NEVER did this whole time rewind concept. Its just one more opportunity for Character development wasted. Because when normal people lose loved ones to accidents they can't just go back in time and stop it from happening! Thats something he wanted and that he Got! So yeah...He's the Magical Paris Hilton. Who cares if he isn't banging Lana anymore, if 5 years of this show has taught us nothing its that she will pretty much forgive him by the time the next "Super Crisis" hits.

"Clark I've fallen down the well, please Save me! I'm so sorry I yelled at you for not being honest with me, take me in your arms and make the world better!" - Lana seasons 1-5

[norman619]

Jor-El's entire personality is wrong. In past episodes he's not only subjected clark to child abuse (Searing his chest with a laser!) kidnapped a human girl and played with her DNA but threatened to kill Johnathan Kent if CK didnt obey. Does that sound like a benelovent all loving father? You'd think someone as "Advanced" as him Artificial Intelligence or not would have found a more subtle way of explaining things to his one and only son.

Clark has already shown to be hard headed so more drastic measures are needed. It's called tough love. Plus the clock it ticking. It's almost time for him to be Superman and he hasn't learned much yet. I'm sure if Jorel found Clark at a younger age such heavy handedness wouldn't be needed. :-)


And you know what...Jor-El shouldn't be warning Clark Kent about anything! That right there is another supernatual ability, Precognition!

"Precognition a form of extra-sensory perception which allows a "percipient" to perceive information about future places or events before they happen (as opposed to merely predicting them based on deductive reasoning and current knowledge)."

I dont know about the rest of you but in my book the only person who should know when a person is going to die should be GOD. How the heck does a automated machine do that? Kal-El listen to me carefully for I know tomorrows Lotto numbers! He's not supposed to know anything like that. The most he should be able to do is explain to clark that people you love are going to die in time and you NEVER know how long you have with them so cherish every moment. Not only that but indirectly Phantom Jor-El is responsible for that Fake Kryptonian Kara killing that FBI officer so yeah he is capable of murder or at least being an accomplice to it.

There is no such thing as “supernatural.” Come on man. We use this label on things we don’t understand and can’t explain. There is serious research into the whole “ESP” thing with some interesting results if you actually bother to seek the truth and not assume everything you ever needed to know could be found in a bible and/or from some selfproclaimed holy person. Who said your god should be the only one able to know the future? You are talking from the view point of a very primitive being lacking in even the most basic understanding of life and the universe. We still understand so little we are in no position to say what is or isn’t possible with any kind of conviction. We are talking about an alien race with a far better grasp of how the universe works than we do. If you insist on basing what can and can’t be done on our own very primitive technology and limited understanding or the physical universe then you will always be closed to what is really possible. We can’t travel to other star systems in our lifetimes yet we know it’s possible. People used to think the human body couldn’t deal with the stresses of traveling faster then 20 mph. Now people travel at supersonic speeds w/o much apprehension. There are very few things that are truly impossible that we can say with any real certainty. Most things we can’t do now is only due to our lack of knowing how to do it. In time if it’s possible we will do it. People with your mindset felt what we can do now medically was the sole domain of God. How wrong were they? Very. If anything is the sole domain of a deity then we shouldn’t be able to do them now should we? The abilities of the Jorel AI to see events in the future are not that far fetched. Our own scientists suspect we can do something similar with the aide of a true Quantum computer. Current scientific theory does not say it's impossible but we lack the tools to test it. In time we will see.

ALSO...Clark doesnt need to learn anymore lessons about losing people. He's already lost, Ryan, Pete, that indian girl he was crushing on, that teleportation girl. Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss! Year ended for Lesson. Time to Learn something new. Like not being a cry baby when bad things happen. Shut up, Step up, and be a Superman.

Loosing a friend is one thing. Loosing a parent or sibling is quite another. But I do agree Clark’s been way too much of a wuss. Kinda reminds me of the mess they did with Darth Vader and Anikin. Another example of a crybaby that’s supposed to grow up to be a tough bad ass.

They should have NEVER did this whole time rewind concept. Its just one more opportunity for Character development wasted. Because when normal people lose loved ones to accidents they can't just go back in time and stop it from happening! Thats something he wanted and that he Got!

Again missing the point. He IS special. He isn’t Joe Normal or Joe Average. We (normal humans) can’t jump up to catch a missile, ride it into space, disarm it, and fall back to earth with no ill effects. He has access to toys we don’t on top of his natural abilities. And he didn’t get what he wanted. Someone died who was more important to him than Lana. Someone he had no way of saving.

I wonder if Jorel had the medical tech that could have saved pa Kent....

[Daphne]

Re: Kryptonians Are Not Gods!!!

Bottom Line...Kryptonians are NOT deities. Their powers have limitations, they shouldn't be treated with respect and a way for character developement and emotional drama. NOT as convienient loops holes to writers block.

Amen. It's been bugging me too.

[norman619]

Re: Re: Kryptonians Are Not Gods!!!

Originally posted by Daphne
Bottom Line...Kryptonians are NOT deities. Their powers have limitations, they shouldn't be treated with respect and a way for character developement and emotional drama. NOT as convienient loops holes to writers block.

Amen. It's been bugging me too.

Agree 100% I was expecting way more than what we got in this ep. I have read much better storylines from some of the people here. It's sad and frustrating.

[kal-odell]

The way they write Jor-El, nullifies the entire reason for Jor-EL.
If Jor-El can hand out superpowers to anyone, then why did he need his son to come to a planet w/ a yellow sun. It most cases he did it because he knew that Clark had no protection. But on Smallville Jor-El is his personal bodyguard. He could have sent his son to a blue star's solar system, and then just given him the superpowers. The sun alone is supposed to be the reason for his powers, the fact that Jor-El can grant and remove them from any Kryptonian or human is a nod to god-like abilties.

How about Dr. Swann, in "Sacred" we find out that he understands Kal-El's entire destiny, and all though he doesn't tell Clark what it is he gives him back his key so that he can continue on with that destiny. How this is not considered God-like is beyond me. We actually have a dead Jor-El, working with a human in order to set up his son's life. There is no way that Jor-El could have known what Swann would do with that knowledge, he is supposed to be dead.

Like I said before at first, it was ok. We had past tense little message inside the ship. We had little past tense messages from the initial Swann interactions. But as soon as the voice started calling Clark it all spun way out of control. Before that we all assumed that any miracles were actually Kryptonian tech. coming from the original ship. Examples being the Kryptonite de-radiation of Lana's necklace, or the ship saving Clark and Martha, ship saving Clark and Lana in the tornado.

But all that thought of it being the technology doing the saving went away as soon as we realized that it wasn't the ship and Jor-El was still talking to him. When Clark blew up the ship, is the exact point were Jor-El became god. All the sudden Jor-El could not only talk to his son w/o the means of any kryptonian technology, he could also effect the phsyical or mental state of anyone in the universe.

It was at that exact point that the heart of the ship {which was the actual first message to Jor-El to Kal-El,} sease to exsist, and the god-like Jor-El came into exsistence. From that point on, the writers have found that they can simply make Jor-El capable of anything at least once.

To have Jor-El make this comment in "reckoning" is almost to me atleast, a slap in the face so to speak. Heck the way it's been going the last three seasons I have been waiting for Clark to carry that cross from the cornfield up down the streets of Smallville w/ a kryptonite thorn crown.

Why do they need to make this comment? Maybe they too, are starting to realize that they have allowed Jor-El's character to get way out of control. Hopefully they might start toning it down from this point on and actually let Clark ask some questions instead of have everything spoon fed from the hand of god.

[HalJordan4184]

Norman619, technology, whether we understand it or not, has an exlanation, a logical one at that. None of the things Jor-El does, have that explanation.

Jor-El on Smallville is a god. Plain and simple. Nothing can create matter, it's a scientific impossibility. But Jor-El can. We can't go back in time. Again, it's a scientific impossibility. But Jor-El can send us back in time, and with a piece of quartz no less. He doesn't need the more than infinite energy science says it would take to tear a hole the in space time *********, and accelerate a person beyond the speed of light. He's got a flashlight and a piece of quartz. If this isn't godlike to you, I'm just stupified. With suspension of disbelief, you have to make it plausible at best. And right now, any serious scientist on the face of the earth, would laugh at this show. It's not plausible in the least. I can by a highly advanced alien race having technology we don't. But i can't by a computer program, manipulating space time, and thrwoing around superpowers like they are candy at a fourth of july parade to be plausible enough to suspend my disblelief. And neither, apparently, can a lot of other people. This doesn't make us wrong.

Also, Clark is human. Being the proponent of science your posts make you seem to be, you'd understand there is more to psychological makeup than where you come from. Nurture plays a huge role. Clark's entire psychological development has been in human society, with human values, and human preferences. To say he has no humanity, and is in no way human, is just wrong. An entire point of the character of Superman, is the fact he's MORE human than the rest of us. His DNA just happens to be Kryptonian. But this alien, from another world, is the best representation of humanity this planet has.

[jazzylg]

I'm starting to see where a lot of you are coming from. Jor-el is seeming like God, and Clark like his only begotten son.It is ridiculous. The writers have created a quagmire of events that are more magical/mystical than scientifcally explainable. This show is starting to turn into pure fantasy. Remember in Reckoning , while clark was speaking to Jor-el in the fos, Jor-el mentioned that the universe will seek a balance, in regards to one life or another. Jor-el basically became death, as in Final Destination 1&2. Only in cheating death, one life was exchanged instead of paid by the life who cheated death. Like I said before, it seems like the writers are delving deep into fantasy, even bring back the pre-crisis(crisis series 1 1985) Superman ability to turn coal into diamond. John Byrne's Man-of Steel series(1986-1987) established a much more realistic/ scientific charactor, and a much more believable premise. What I've observed now is a combination of practical science to super sci-fi fantasy/impossibilty.
At least the premise of time travel could have been explained by localized temporal events, where clark couldn't interact with anyone but acted to change certain events. Even giving clark a warning about changing the course of human histroy(superman 1) would have been nice.