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  1. #31
    Banned LexLuthorMetropolis's Avatar
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    I'll put it this way - simply Jen's right, Ryan's wrong.

  2. #32
    Registered User vyperman7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by LexLuthorMetropolis
    I'll put it this way - simply Jen's right, Ryan's wrong.
    Thanks for the explanation of why you feel that way Derek..

    I'll put it simply.

    I am right and you are wrong..

    But seriously though, I don't see the two shows as being all that similar.

    I especially disagree with labeling Veronica as an "ass kicker" in example number one or being a master of weaponry. She is very smart and is very capable, especially when it comes to computers and being street smart. But she cannot physically take care of herself like Buffy could.

  3. #33
    Banned LexLuthorMetropolis's Avatar
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    Watch more than 10 episodes then judge. Honestly, you seriously don't know the character well enough to make those judgements.

    Watching 10 episodes is like making half a judgement and running without the full facts and you haven't even seen S2. So I rest my case.

  4. #34
    Registered User vyperman7's Avatar
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    You misunderstood my post Derek. I have seen all of S1 and I have watched 10 episodes of S2. I was going to wait until S2 was over to watch it, but I gave in and watched up until the New Year's episode where Wallace returns.

    So I understand the show and the character much more than you are giving me credit for.

    So as far as your post goes, I feel like you owe me an apology dude. I agree that it would be pre-judging if I had only seen ten episodes from S1. But I have seen most of the show. I am only 6 episodes or so behind where the show is at right now. So I did not pre-judge at all. This is my thoughts based on the whole show.

  5. #35
    Banned LexLuthorMetropolis's Avatar
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    Nope, not giving an apology.

  6. #36
    Registered User vyperman7's Avatar
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    Wait.

    So you accused me of misjudging the show because I have not seen more than ten episodes, when I clearly stated that I have seen all of S1 and 10 episodes of S2. I was actually suprised when I read this because I provided a few examples showing that I have been watching S2 with the bus crash and the Fitzpatricks situation with Logan and the gun.

    I can't force you to give an apology, but if I called someone on something that wasn't true, I would apologize.

  7. #37
    Banned LexLuthorMetropolis's Avatar
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    Refer to my PM Mr. Holier Than Thou.

    Besides you didn't back your argument well enough to prove your point thus proving my point in the PM.

  8. #38
    Registered User vyperman7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by LexLuthorMetropolis
    Watch more than 10 episodes then judge. Honestly, you seriously don't know the character well enough to make those judgements.

    Watching 10 episodes is like making half a judgement and running without the full facts and you haven't even seen S2. So I rest my case.
    I am not trying to act "holier than thou". I am simply saying that your argument for me misjudging the show was that I had only seen ten episodes, and that I had not even seen season two yet right? I clearly started that I had seen all of season one, and ten episodes of S2. I even gave examples from S2 for my argument. It seems to me that if you read my arguments closely enough, you would have realized how much of the show I had seen, and used a different argument as to why you felt I was wrong, instead of the prejudgement route. If the situation had been reversed and I had made a mistake, I would have said "Oops my bad, sorry for the misunderstanding".

    As I said in my original post, how about you quote my responses to each argument in the thread and offer some sort of rebuttal to what I am saying so that I can see where you are coming from. If you feel I didn't back up my argument well enough tell me why you feel that way. It comes off better than just implying "you are wrong and I am right".

    In regards to the PM, I don't know what to say. I obviously can't discuss it in the thread, and my response just got sent back. If I had AIM, maybe we could talk things out. A lot of what you said is completely untrue.

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1. Hot Chick, Kicking Ass + Baggage -- This is the most obvious parallel for the two shows. We've got a cute, high school aged girl who's had her share of a troubled past, but she takes little crap from anyone. Sure, one kicks ass with fists, feet and weaponry, while the other does so with a knack for sleuthing, but their motive remains true: take down the bad guys, stay trendy in the process.

    2. The Scooby Gang -- Buffy had Xander and Willow in the beginning, and they all met at the library to discuss their plans. Veronica has Wallace and Mac, and Veronica's library parallel turns to the girl's restroom at school. Mac's similarities to Willow are almost too obvious. Wallace is still that guy who helps Veronica with her investigations, though he has no real unique skills to offer (just as Xander had no real powers to offer). Each show even referenced themselves as the "Scooby Gang" at some point.

    3. The Good, Single Parent -- Buffy had single-mom, Joyce. Veronica has single-dad, Keith. Both parents had rotten relationships with their spouses for whatever reason, and their daughters love and support them almost solely. The similarities with the parents pretty much ends there, though, as Keith plays a much more active role in the series than Joyce ever did.

    4. The Big Bad -- Both shows had/have one great recipe that I've come to love of these kinds of shows. Each series has episodes that easily stand on their own, one way or another. They also have one "big bad" or primary evil of the season to be defeated. Throughout the season, we get some advancement to that final episode where everything comes to a head, and it keeps you anxiously awaiting each new episode with bated breath.

    5. High School Angst -- Both shows start out in a beautiful, California high school. The principal's got something out for Veronica/Buffy, and she knows how to make his life just a little more difficult with every meeting. While Buffy had Giles, Veronica's had exchanges with a few different teachers who'd been there to help. I sometimes wonder if Sydney Tamiia Poitier was originally cast to play the Giles-like character on Veronica Mars, since she was featured prominently in the credits in season one, then suddenly she disappeared from the show (on the show, they blame a sudden case of getting pregnant as reason for her leaving school -- anyone know the real reason she left the show?)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    My responses :

    It was a good try Jen, but I still don't see the shows as being overly similar. There are a few similarities here and there, but overall they have the feel of two different shows to me. In all honesty, I see more of a comparison between Veronica and Chloe, then I do Buffy and Veronica.

    Chloe and Veronica are both hot blondes, that strive to find the truth in things, they are both computer savy and capable, and they both have the same sarchastic and witty attitude.

    Buffy/Veronica Comparions :

    1) I kinda agree with. Vernoica is definately hot. However, I don't find her to be an ass kicker or a master of weaponry. She is computer smart and very capable. But, what weapons has she actually used, and whose ass has she physically kicked? There is always a guy running to her rescue whether it is Weevil, Logan, etc.. Look at her run in with the Fitzpatrick's in this season. It took Logan charging in with the gun to get her out of the jam. Buffy would have wiped them all out. Also, she was running for her life from Aaron Echolls at the end of S1. Buffy would have taken it to him.

    - Now explain to me how I did not back up my argument here. This is the one that I disagree with most of all. The argument is that both Buffy and Veronica can physically protect themselves. With Buffy there is no question. But with Veronica, I would love for someone to point out a time where she physically protected herself. Maybe I just have a bad memory, but I seriously don't remember a time when she kicked someone's ass. There has always been someone watching her back, or getting her out of a jam. As I stated two events that come into my mind are Veronica and the Fitzpatricks, as well as Veronica running for her life from Aarron. Now does being saved by an ex-boyfriend, and running for your life, serve as a good comparison to Buffy in the physical ass kicking department?

    2) I don't really see VM having a Scooby Gang, because it is mainly Wallace who is there for her. Her father obviously has her back, but he is not part of the high school scene and Weevil is only shown sparatically. I don't really count Logan or Duncan as part of a Scooby Gang because they served as love interests. Now you make a good point with Mac because her personality is very similar to Willow, especially in the earlier seasons of Buffy. I still say that she is not around enough to be considered part of a Scooby gang. Xander and Willow were always around.

    - Now how does Veronica and Wallace serve as a "gang". The comparison for Mac to Willow is vallid as I stated. But Mac is only arround sparingly. To me a Buffy like Scooby Gang would have Mac and Wallace and Veronica always working together. Whenever Mac and Veronica are working together, they are alone most of the time. That is not a form of group unity.

    3) Can't argue with the comparion between Joyce and Keith. Although in this case, I like Keith as a character more than I do Joyce because Keith actually gets involved and works with his daughter at times. Joyce never really got into the thick of it all, but she did take an axe to Spike in School Hard..

    4) The Big Bad is a topic that could provide for some discussion. Buffy had a clear, cut, villain for the season. Veronica Mars is more of a mystery show. I don't know if I see it as a Big Bad, as much as I do an overall mystery that needs to be solved. I have only seen 10 episodes of S2 but the main story for S2 is the bus crash and whose responsible. The show is more about Vernoica finding the truth, than battling a villain.

    5) I wouldn't really compare any of the teachers that have helped Veronica on occasion to Giles, as Giles had a central role in Buffy's life. The argument for the Prinicipal is a good one, although it is not nearly as bad for Veronica as it was for Buffy with Principal Synder.

    6) The high school angst and location is the same in both shows. I will give you that.
    Last edited by vyperman7; 03-31-2006 at 06:47 PM.

  9. #39
    Banned LexLuthorMetropolis's Avatar
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    Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

    Frankly, you're not worth wasting the time and energy on in either form. If you're too blind to see your own stubborn behavior, I'm just walking away and letting you waste away.
    Last edited by LexLuthorMetropolis; 03-31-2006 at 06:45 PM.

  10. #40
    Registered User vyperman7's Avatar
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    Derek,

    Let's review.

    I post my arguments to the original post.

    With no explanation at all, you say that I am wrong. Then when I ask you why you feel this way, you accuse me of misjudging the show based on the fact that you thought I had only seen the first ten episodes of the show. I then asked for an addmission of your mistake aka "an apology". You refused and without even acknowledging the fact that I was innocent of your original charge, you said that it didn't matter because I did not back up my argument well enough. Once again, you offer no rebuttal as to why you feel I was wrong. Then once again, I copy the original post, my responses, and even included some more thoughts this time around, to try and get you to say why you feel I did not back up my argument. Then it ends with you saying that I am not worth your time.

    Now who exactly is the one being stubborn here? All I wanted from you was a discussion instead of the "I'm right, and you're wrong" attitude and an admission to the fact that you made a mistake. Unfortunately, I received neither.

    All I am saying, is that in the future if you are going to say that someone is wrong on whatever topic it is, offer some examples of why you feel this way. This lets that person understand where you are coming from and to have a discussion about it. Also, if you make a mistake and are wrong about something, admit to it.
    Last edited by vyperman7; 03-31-2006 at 07:24 PM.

  11. #41
    Banned LexLuthorMetropolis's Avatar
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    You seriously need to think about position and stop letting it run to your head because it is and frankly, you're continuing posting like this is ill-suited behavior for a moderator.

    Like I said in my PM, GET OVER IT! Let me add this time: GET A CLUE and GET OVER IT! That's the last I'm saying. If you reply again, you're just wasting your own time.

    You're wasting your breath with me and frankly, I don't care to hear a stuck person's opinions when they don't even support them. So take a taste of your own medicine for once and move on because I'm done wasting my time with you.

  12. #42
    Registered User vyperman7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by LexLuthorMetropolis
    You seriously need to think about position and stop letting it run to your head because it is and frankly, you're continuing posting like this is ill-suited behavior for a moderator.
    What does this have to do with being a moderator? If you would simply get back to the topic of the thread, like I have been trying to do since I first posted, there would not be a problem.

    This is the last I will say about this because I really don't want the thread to get closed.

    I have stated my arguments on why I feel Buffy and Veronica are two different characters and shows overall. You have repeatedly claimed that I am wrong, you offer no rebuttal, you have acted towards me in a rude manner, and are now going off on a completely unrelated subject matter that has nothing to do with the topic.

    I am the one who is showing ill-behavior?

    Now can we please get this thread back on topic, like I have been trying to do since page two.

  13. #43
    Banned LexLuthorMetropolis's Avatar
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    You're one the who kept it going, Mr. Ego lol and for the record you haven't being trying to get it back on topic since page 2. You just stated it now.

    Believe me, you've been showing ill-behavior as a mod since you deleted that ONE TREE HILL thread post. I may get banned, but that thread is going to haunt you forever.

    As for this: You just want to have your way and can't lol

    I'm done. Bye, bye K-suck moderator!

  14. #44
    Registered User vyperman7's Avatar
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    My first post after your response :

    Originally posted by vyperman7
    Thanks for the explanation of why you feel that way Derek..

    I'll put it simply.

    I am right and you are wrong..

    But seriously though, I don't see the two shows as being all that similar.

    I especially disagree with labeling Veronica as an "ass kicker" in example number one or being a master of weaponry. She is very smart and is very capable, especially when it comes to computers and being street smart. But she cannot physically take care of herself like Buffy could.
    I have been trying to get back on topic since the start.

  15. #45
    The artist formerly known as "KryptonSite" KSiteTV's Avatar
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    Okay, LLM, you have a problem with v-man as a moderator, you take it to me, because you of all people should know that kind of discussion is not allowed and I will NOT hesitate to ban you if you're going to be that way.

    Respectful differences of opinion do happen here. But if it's a mod issue, contact me. Otherwise, this post is brought to you by the letters S T F U.

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