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Anyone else bothered by Clark losing his virginity?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by umm
    People please,.... screw, fornicate.....?
    We are after all talking about an act of love!
    Can´t you use words like ´make love´, I mean even ´have intercourse´is better than using words like screw or fornicate to describe that particular act!
    im thinking the same thing, doing the deed, cant they just say "have sex" its not a bad word

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    • #32
      I enjoyed reading Shirkie's take on things. Everyone should read it. I respect everyone's opinions. I really wasn't for Clana sex, and not because I am a Chlarker. It just didn't seem to follow what Superman is all about. I know that writers are at liberty to reinterpret stories but, I think I would have liked this one aspect of Superman staying a virgin until he met Lois intact. Times don't change what Superman represents.

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      • #33
        Agreed. Just to add my two cents in this forum (though, for my full thoughts, see the other one I mentioned), religious beliefs aside (and I offer several reasons why waiting is better that have nothing to do with religion), it just isn't in line with the established character of Superman.

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        • #34
          I just feel no romantic spark
          Remember from MORTAL, at the end, things looked pretty damn romantic to me, given he had a busted lip. Lana had candles out (she has a fetish for candles, anyone else notice) and they went slow and took their time.

          Plus, when they were in the bed together before they hear the Kents, they were softly looking at each other and talking sweetly. I know it's not roses and clouds, but it is still romantic in that sense.

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          • #35
            yes, I wish they didnt have sex . I've found there are still many americans who wait until marriage, and smallville should have some characters who represent that. (atleast one.) IMO

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            • #36
              personally i think they both need jesus. clark cuz he's been spyin on lana for almost 11 years, and lana becuz shes a c*** tease.

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              • #37
                It's just so stupid that they change Superman's morals so he can "keep up with the times." Everyone has jumped off the sex cliff, so Superman has too.

                And the reason "no one has come up with any good non-religious reasons not to have sex" is because every time we do, people who are already convinced sex is fine anytime, anyplace, with anyone, so hooray for sex just ignore those reasons.

                HIV/AIDS. PREGNANCY. STDs. EMOTIONAL INTIMACY ISSUES. THE FACT THAT HAVING SEX MEANS YOU'RE GIVING PART OF YOURSELF AWAY FOREVER. RESPECT FOR YOUR PARTNER.

                Those are some damn good secular reasons for waiting.

                As for why some of us are using the word "fornicate" for what someone referred to as "making love" is because we argue a) that Clark and Lana aren't in love, and b) because "fornicate" is the word that describes two unmarried people copulating. Some of us aren't going to give approval to such behavior, so we're not going to pretty it up with happy euphemisms like "making love."

                I think it's interesting how our society demands representation on TV... Some activist groups make sure there are enough African-Americans on TV, others make sure the Latino population is being adequately represented, and other groups are making sure enough homosexual characters are on TV. Where are the characters positively representing abstinence, might I ask? Just something that's been on my mind. When we can't even have SUPERMAN be a virgin anymore, something is rotten in the America.
                shirkie

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                • #38
                  I was not at all bothered by the sex. I am very bothered that he didn't share at least part of the secret with her beforehand. I know he rationalized to himself that the past didn't matter because he was mortal now, but now he's doomed the relationship - there's no way she can forgive him for this. Its just one of those terrible mistakes that people make, and one that will play an important role in his future as superman.

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                  • #39
                    I think it makes a lot of sense because it strengthens Clark and Lana's relationship. And remember that it was Clark that had sex with Lana not Superman. He wanted to have a normal life with the woman he loved and it was taken away from him by Jor-el.

                    Now he has to decide between lying to Lana while staying together or tell her the truth and risk losing everything.

                    BTW, Superman never married Lois in Superman 2 I don't believe. He gave up his powers for her and they had sex right after.

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                    • #40
                      It's only sex and it just wouldn't make any sense if they didn't do it. The show bent over backwards to try not to outrage the prudes, like Jvslclrk said they've even worked a lesson for Clark into it. They still aren't happy though and probably never will be, what with so much rampant fornicating going on in the world.
                      Personally I was quite happy that it had finally happened and we could leave this stupid notion of Superman having to be a virgin behind. Being a virgin doesn't make you some kind of moral guardian, maybe it did in the 50's but not anymore.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by shirkie
                        HIV/AIDS. PREGNANCY. STDs. EMOTIONAL INTIMACY ISSUES. THE FACT THAT HAVING SEX MEANS YOU'RE GIVING PART OF YOURSELF AWAY FOREVER. RESPECT FOR YOUR PARTNER.

                        Those are some damn good secular reasons for waiting.
                        Well considering the fact that they are (I'm sorry, were) virgins, and neither have undergone transfusions or shared a needle...I think we can rule out the STDs and HIV paranoia, not to mention the fact that they practiced safe sex, so you can also count pregnancy out 99.9 percent of the time.

                        The fact of the matter is, they were both in adult relationships beforehand, and neither of them felt comfortable enough with their respective partners to "give away part of themselves forever", although what "part" that may be, I do not know.

                        The ratings argument is a silly one too, because it really didn't occupy that much time of the episode. It certainly didn't dominate the storyline, it was simply suggested that they were now in a an adult relationship and to be honest that's not what will attract those kind of viewers, "bare skin" is.

                        Realistically, every relationship has it's problems, and not every relationship has two completely honest participants. That's life, no matter how much you try and over romanticise things, "not everything is private domain". Everyone is going to hold back a little, and if each willing partner waited for the whole truth and nothing but the truth to be revealed before going ahead with any sex acts, then the planet would be doomed and not even a sexually repressed Superman would be able to save it.

                        The only valid reason I can think of would be because sex before marriage compromises Clark's purity, but again that is purely in the eye of the beholder. You (and others) may think of sex before marriage as an impure act, but others (like myself) may not, especially when the two people involved are constantly portrayed as lovesick puppies. Obviously the writers don't see it as an issue and unfortunately for you, I highly doubt that's going to change.

                        Both Clark and Lana have clearly shown that they care deeply for one another, and they have every right to express that sexually. Waiting around to sign a register in the eyes of the government/whatever god you believe in, is not going to change the fact that they desire each other now.

                        It isn't covered on the show, (and forgive my bluntness here, but it is relevant), do you think either Clark or Lana masturbates? Is the act of relieving ones self in a sexual manner impure even without a partner? If so I ask anyone who has a problem with pre-marital sex to look inside yourself and ask the question, "am I really as pure as I think I am?", only you (and in some cases one other) can make that judgement.

                        I actually think this was dealt with quite sensibly on the show. Last season had a lot of pointless encounters of the sexual kind, and the show suffered all the more for it, but there was nothing wrong with what happened in mortal/hidden, it wasn't glamorised, it wasn't gratuitous and it most certainly wasn't wrong for the characters.

                        (but that's just my opinion, I guess).
                        Last edited by efilflah; 10-18-2005, 03:37 AM.

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                        • #42
                          Wah Wah Clark had sex.

                          If you people think two adults who truly love eachother are not going to have sex then you need a serious reality check.

                          Do you people honestly think it's a sex = ratings deal? Oh no, I just saw two people say they love eachother, kiss for 5 seconds and then cut to an open window, what a horny boner inducing sex scene that was, the ratings are gonna be skyyyyy high now! Please...

                          As far as I'm concerned they got a realistic issue out of the way, if anything it shows the series has slightly matured, last time the issue of sex was dealt with Clark was on Red K, Alicia was wearing the sexiest underwear imaginable, and punk rock was been played in the background. This time is was romantic and modest, quit complaining.

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                          • #43
                            I don't like the sex because it diminshed Clark because he deceived her. He kept something from her that he though would effect her willilingness to be with him. It was under false pretenses, so to speak.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Krypton Angel


                              WHO CARES!!! CLARK GOT LAID AND IT WAS SWEET, VIRGINITY IS OVER RATED AND I WOULD LOVE TO SEE MORE SEX!
                              It would be so much cooler if message boards allowed users to say things under their breaths disguised by fake coughs.

                              For example, there have been many times at which I have felt the urge to say *coughmongoloidcough* but have been unable to do so because of technological constraints.

                              When, oh when, will the Internet catch up with the reality in my brain?

                              Originally posted by Lambshank
                              Wah Wah Clark had sex.

                              If you people think two adults who truly love eachother are not going to have sex then you need a serious reality check.
                              Two kids who just graduated HS =/= "Adults".

                              Do you people honestly think it's a sex = ratings deal?
                              Er...yes?

                              Oh no, I just saw two people say they love eachother, kiss for 5 seconds and then cut to an open window, what a horny boner inducing sex scene that was, the ratings are gonna be skyyyyy high now! Please...
                              I think the phrase is "the proof is in the pudding". Rather: How were the ratings? Soft-core porn is not mandatory for high ratings, I'm afraid.

                              As far as I'm concerned they got a realistic issue out of the way, if anything it shows the series has slightly matured, last time the issue of sex was dealt with Clark was on Red K, Alicia was wearing the sexiest underwear imaginable, and punk rock was been played in the background.
                              In that episode, we also got a nice lecture on the sanctity of marriage, etc.

                              This time is was romantic and modest, quit complaining.
                              It's more a matter of character development, really, than it is a matter of "is it OK for Clark to have sex"?

                              I think it was IMPORTANT that Clark NOT remain a virgin simply because he needs the full range of human experience before he can truly be Superman in the modern (SV) context.

                              His mortality contained a full range of emotional and physical experience, and now he is well-equipped to progress toward being the champion of humanity.
                              Last edited by Brainiac_13; 10-18-2005, 07:32 AM.

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                              • #45
                                Ultimately, this is not about "purity" or "chastity" necessarily, but rather about Clark knowing, in his heart that his partner should be someone he loved and trusted enough to reveal who he really isand who would accept him completely when he revealed his true nature, not push him away out of fear or disgust nor blame him for things that weren't his fault. A partner who would do that is in no way worthy of Clark's attention as a friend much less being his sexual partner at any time.

                                And sex isn't going to strengthen their relationship; nothing can because it's flawed from the beginning and will end badly. Lana is certainly using sex to keep Clark just as she tried with Jason, but sex doesn't make a flawed relationship better any more than having sex "makes you a man." Being a man (or woman) means accepting your responsibilities and that's something Clark is clearly not willing to do unless he can screw Lana Lang. And yes, that would be the appropriate term for sex under false pretenses, when you lie by omission so you can engage in it.

                                God knows I dislike Lana Lang who is a selfish manipulative harpy in Smallville as in the comics. But she did deserve to know about Clark and be given the choice. WHich now, after Clark admitted it to Chloe in Hidden, people can no longer claim "Clark's dream in Scared had nothing to do with Lana and was merely a dream. He knows how she'd react and it wouldn't be pretty. THis puts both Lana and Clark in a terrible light.

                                And people aren't "prudes" because they think it's not right to trash Clark's character by having him climb into Lana's bed under false pretenses. I'm no prude by any stretch of the imagination but this has to do with holding the future Superman to a higher standard than others, no matter how young or imature he is. And eighteen isn't so young even a human boy or girl would know this isn't right under the circumstances. Clark is fooling himself and Lana to think it could ever work out and it makes him look so bad many people don't want to see it.

                                As for it being a ratings ploy, of course it is, just like the Alicia crap was. Al Gough swore in an interview that Clark would remain a virgin. His exact words. But the minute he thought he needed it, he used Clark for a cheap ratings gain and it had no real effect if you've noticed. It makes Clark look worse than I ever want to see to have him chase after Lana to the exclusion of people who actually care deeply about him anyway then to step over the line with this is appalling.

                                Of course then we have to move on to Lana's ridiculous speech in Hidden, as full of nonsense as could be and completely not born out by show history and onscreen canon. SHe never cared that much for Clark and never even visited him, her next door neighbor her entire life until they were freshman in high school when she had a brief fit of conscience which didn't last because she had to go back to Whitney to "feel safe" no mater what he did to Clark. Other than speaking to him in school they didn't know each other very well at all.

                                No, this is not a girl who always "knew you could make me happy from the first moment I saw you," and was afraid to get close to him because she knew he's get hurt playing hero someday. This is a girl who berated Clark about secrets and ignored him unless she wanted more attention than her actual boyfriend could give her becasue otherwise she didn't have much time for him at all. That speech was the biggest load of bushwah I've ever heard.

                                And the sex scenes themselves were by no means sweet; the Talon apartment was as unerotic as could be the first time we had to endure it and the waking up in the farmhouse with those simpering glances? Save me from such a pitiful excuse for love and sex. They can't do it right and they really shouldn't be doing it at all. As I said earlier, we have a right to expect more from Clark because of who he is. THere's a limit to how far Clark should go and this is way beyond.

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