The role of sex?

[Reign]

A few questions:

1. What role does sex have in Smallville that they keep having to hint at it?

2. Did they or didn't they at the end of Mortal? I think they did, but I hope they didn't. I just think they should keep the Superman image pure, so just stay away from the topic of sex. I think Dean Cain's Clark was a virgin till he married Lois.

3. What effect does sex in Smallville have on teenagers?

[FOG]

Maybe because Clark and Lana saved their selves for each other.
When I first heard that Clark and Lana were going to do the deed it did not bother me. After they did the deed(i am thinking they did) I think Clark should of waited for Lois like Reign said to keep the Superman image pure.

[slave2moonlight]

Yeah, there have been a lot of fights around here about morals being opinion and people bringing up religion and all that. Well, all I have to say is I'm not the MOST moral guy in the world, and I know waiting for marriage is pretty rare and usually a religious thing (though, like Superman, it is part of the moral history of America, whether people practice it much or not), but it's a bit disappointing when I have stronger morals than Superman does.

[Lambshank]

Re: The role of sex?

Originally posted by Reign
A few questions:

1. What role does sex have in Smallville that they keep having to hint at it?

2. Did they or didn't they at the end of Mortal? I think they did, but I hope they didn't. I just think they should keep the Superman image pure, so just stay away from the topic of sex. I think Dean Cain's Clark was a virgin till he married Lois.

3. What effect does sex in Smallville have on teenagers?

1. Smallville is a show with teenagers in it, teenagers have sex.

2. Yes, I think they did. They both love eachother and they both have sex with eachother, simple.

3. I don't understand this question...

[shirkie]

I was sickened because the whole point of Clark going "mortal" was so he could be "normal." And what's the first thing he does as a "normal" teenager? He has sex.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE SEX TO BE NORMAL.

PERIOD.

It is INSULTING to insinuate that it's sex that's what makes you "normal," or even worse... "human."

1. The role of sex in "Smallville" is as I said-- it's apparently what makes teenagers "normal." Clark was a "freak" because he was a virgin. Now that he's fornicated, he is apparently "normal." But now that he can no longer fornicate, he's no longer "normal." What a wonderful message, Al/Miles.

2. They did have sex at the end of "Mortal," obviously.

3. Sex in "Smallville" affects viewers by reinforcing this dangerous idea that "everyone" is having sex and it's the "normal" thing to do.

I agree with whoever said it's pathetic that some of us now have better morals than Superman, who is supposed to be the archetype of moral integrity.
shirkie

[DGreen]

once again.....clark kent is not superman yet. how many times do i have to say this. he still has a lot of growing up to do to become that hero that we all know and love. i think that when he does grow up a bit, he'll regret the decision to sleep with lana, because he'll realize that he didn't love her as much as he once thought he did.

[dreamingofclark/tom]

I personally believe that if the individuals are mature (not just by age but in mind and spirit as well) and feel that they are ready and, most importantly, love, respect and care for one another, then it's perfectly alright for them to have sex. Clark and Lana are how old? At least 18 cos they just graduated from hs. It's not like they're 15, 16 year old kids who don't know the responsbilities of sex and that your virginity is not something that you can get back later on. The younger audience watching the show must know this. I thought that it was about time that they slept together b/c they have both been in love with each other for so long - like Lana said, they have been taking things slow for four years now. The timing was right I felt. However, I thought all the lit candles, fire going and Coldplay in the background was a little obvious and corny. Could they have made it more obvious of what was to come. I mean, who has their bedroom lit with just candles - and I mean like 20 candles - and fire going if they are NOT planning on any romance and sex to happen? If there are, please, correct me if I'm wrong.

[shirkie]

But don't you see at all what I'm saying with the undercurrent of "Normal" versus "Freak" as parallel to sexual status?

What's the first thing a "normal" Clark does to enjoy being "normal"? He runs off to have sex with Lana. Because, apparently, one can't experience what it is to be "normal" without having sex. This is NOT a message for a teen audience.

As for the whole age thing, Lana can do whatever she darn pleases, but Clark still lives under his parents' roof and needs to abide by their rules regarding sexual activity... 18 or no 18, it's their house and their rules.
shirkie

[CK&CK]

Bingo!

Originally posted by slave2moonlight
Yeah, there have been a lot of fights around here about morals being opinion and people bringing up religion and all that. Well, all I have to say is I'm not the MOST moral guy in the world, and I know waiting for marriage is pretty rare and usually a religious thing (though, like Superman, it is part of the moral history of America, whether people practice it much or not), but it's a bit disappointing when I have stronger morals than Superman does.

Bingo! That's exactly it. These are such exciting stories of a young Superman....so much so that it rose above all other incarnations (in my opinion)....to bad his image is slowly becoming a disappointment as you say.......maybe even a joke to some.

Originally posted by Lambshank
1. Smallville is a show with teenagers in it, teenagers have sex.

2. Yes, I think they did. They both love eachother and they both have sex with eachother, simple.

3. I don't understand this question...

Yeah, I guess you wouldn't.

Originally posted by DGreen
once again.....clark kent is not superman yet. how many times do i have to say this. he still has a lot of growing up to do to become that hero that we all know and love. i think that when he does grow up a bit, he'll regret the decision to sleep with lana, because he'll realize that he didn't love her as much as he once thought he did.

One of the endearing qualities that sold me on the show...even before I knew about Chloe.....was the fact that despite such incredible circumstances, Clark was an amazing young man..who....even with stumbling occasionally, had integrity that was well beyond his years (as J. Kent said). Sadly, he's now a moron teenager in my eyes....and as someone else said....yeah, teenagers do have sex. So I accept it now...same as I accept the fact that he's a moron who can't see the bigger picture......hell, he doesn't even have to see the big picture, just show some common sense with respect to who and what he is....as well as some respect for his parents.....which he clearly doesn't because he's all about me...me.....and more me. Shame the way he had to die before he saw the light.

[slave2moonlight]

There's some interesting stuff posted here, I must say.

I'm still amazed that so many people believe 18 is this magical number that instantly makes you mature, responsible, and knowledgeable, even if you were an immature, selfish brat at 17 the day before. Despite what your parents, the law, or the back of your cigarette carton tells you, age doesn't declare your maturity, or anything much else about you (after all, why are there different ages for different priviledges? It's ridiculous). All it means is that you can legally do something, not that you should and that it's right or normal. Everyone matures in their own time, some earlier than what is considered "normal," most much later. Clark and Lana may be 18 by now, but they still reek of immaturity on many levels.

I'm even more saddened every time I hear someone spout the baloney generalization: "teenagers have sex." It's not part of the definition of a teenager to be sexually active, and the really sad part is that far fewer teens are sexually active than the general public thinks. The problem is two things: One, the teens who ARE sexually active always play that "everyone does it" card to make themselves feel better, and a lot of them believe it because there's so much lying about it that goes on among peers. It just purpetuates a myth. The other major contributor to the myth (and a strong influence on the first) is, of course, the majority of the media. Smallville, though I generally still love the show and consider it the best thing that TV has to offer right now, has unfortunately joined those ranks. The fact is, sex sells and teens are hot. The hypocritical media basically sells teens as sex objects, starting them off as young as they can, and it's tragic. Because hot teens sell and sex sells even more, they combine the two for a bigger sale, forcing them to also sell the myth that all teens are sexually active, most to a disgusting level. I can applaud Smallville for not making the cast out to be as notoriously whorish as most teen television characters, but that doesn't make what they're doing okay. If you want to know what's wrong with it aside from moral issues (which are hopeless to argue since most people just don't have/understand/believe in morals anymore), well, it simply isn't Superman. That's all there is to it: Premarital teen sex is not Superman. Clark is a teen, sure, but he's a teen who will grow up to be Superman. Yes, they have to show him struggling with making life choices, but they also should be showing him making the right choices more often than the wrong ones. That's what makes him different from people like Lex. Okay, so the left side will say, what's "wrong" about it? Well, that does come down to individual beliefs, but Clark/Superman is supposed to be strongly "moral," based on "traditional" American morals, which do include only having sex within the bounds of marriage. I believe it's been posted before that according to canon Clark was a virgin when he married Lois. Whether that's accurate or not, that's the way Superman SHOULD be simply based on his character and upbringing, and they blew that because they didn't have enough respect for modern audiences to buy a relationship where hormones were secondary. Oh, and because sex sells.

The fact is, there are people out there, darn good lookin' some of 'em, who do wait till they get married before they lose their virginity, and yet you rarely see that portrayed on film just because TPTB think it won't sell. It's really sad when it's practically expected of a character to save himself, and yet they still don't play him that way because sex sells. So, you end up with a public that feels it's "normal" to be sexually active in your teens, or abnormal to have a relationship that is saving sex for later, when things are more sure. Clearly, Clark and Lana haven't worked many of their problems out. They just wanted to get it while the gettin' was good. But, what do you expect from a society that now pushes the rule that "sex takes place on the third date." That's the sort of so-called "morals" we live with today, and yet they still are ignored, ha.

What turns up the most in these arguements, though, is one side saying sex outside of marriage is wrong, and the other saying it's not. Sadly, the side in support of "waiting" often has no better defense than to quote scripture. Sure, some of us have great respect for scripture, but not everybody, so it's not an effective arguement. What they should think about is WHY God teaches not to have sex outside of marriage, because all of those rules have sense behind them. Sure, there are the basics: getting diseases, accidental pregnancies, etc... but there are two reasons I think are much stronger. People are more sexually active than ever nowadays, I won't deny that. But, you also have a higher divorce rate than ever. Relationships just aren't working out. You're kidding yourself if you don't think there's a connection. It's much harder to settle down with one person when you're used to bed-hopping. And, even when you've only had monogomous relationships, serious histories with others are forever a part of your life, and we're only human. They can creep up and affect your relationship with the current "love of your life." There's no perfect person that isn't going to be affected by the past. Sex IS important to living creatures. It's not evil. It's a deep connection with another person though, even when you don't want it to be. It will affect you later. Even a one-night stand will always come back to your mind. In short, you complicate your life, the more different sex-partners you've had. You put future relationships at risk. Of course, warnings like this are easily tossed aside by those who want sex now. Everyone thinks the person they are with at the moment is the love of their life. Truly, marriages are not a guarantee, but that's a whole other discussion (a history of premarital sex doesn't help, though). Anyway, all this is really secondary to another truth. Save yourself for one person, and you're going to have a special connection with that person that you will have with no one else. That's one of the main reasons it is best to only have sex with one person in a lifetime. Of course, it works much better if it's mutual, but, I confess, it's hard to find another person who has waited that also fits all your other criteria for Mr. or Mrs. Right, ha. Anyway, you can have lots of meaningless sex, but you're cheating yourself out of a much more special experience (while risking all other sorts of things too), and cheating others out of it too if they are also virgins. You can say you're waiting for someone special, but if that's just your first "serious" boyfriend or girlfriend, frankly, you're full of it. Most people KNOW that it is rare to end up with your first boyfriend or girlfriend. Clark and Lana don't end up together, so we know they are not in "true love," so how is it that some folks are saying it was about time they did it? Maybe they think they are in love, but we know better, so how can any of US support it? People also think sex is a necessary aspect of keeping a relationship together nowadays. When you reach that level in your relationship, it MUST be done or things won't work out. Well, if your relationship can't survive without sex, it's pretty worthless. Marriages aren't guaranteed, but if someone won't wait for you, it's a good sign they don't love you. Which is another reason waiting is in a person's best interest. It can really set the record straight. If they won't wait till you're married, they're probably just after the booty.

Well, I could go on and on, but I don't have to. All this stuff is true, and is proven time and time again to everyone. Everybody knows this stuff is true, they just don't want to admit it because people are obsessed with sex. Hey, I understand. I am a total horn-dog, but I'm capable of controlling myself in hopes of something wonderful in the future. I've had some opportunities I can't believe I passed up, and I may not get what I'm looking for in the future, but I at least still have the chance and hope. Clark and Lana no longer have that. They think they've found what they're looking for, but we know they're wrong, so how can any of us say it was about time? And, seriously, how many people do you know that stayed together with their first out of wedlock sex-partner?

Bottom-line, the human race should know by now that if you give-up your virginity outside of marriage to someone, no matter how into them you are at the time, the chances aren't good that you're going to stay together forever. That should simply be understood by now. It's been proven time and time again. So anyone who says "they are in love" and so they needed to get it on, that's just not usin' your head. It's not mature. It's just plain silly.

As for the folks who think sex is just this fun thing to do whenever you get the chance. Fine, but you're cheatin' yourself out of what could be a very special experience. Most think it will still be special when they are doing it with someone they really mean it with. Again, that's just being silly. If it's something you do pretty much at every chance you get, it's not going to be "special" with the one you decide you truly love.

Well, I'll try to leave the subject at that. Just getting some things off my chest. I'm sure I forgot some stuff, but I felt those things needed to be said, even if they are tragically ignored. Now, I want to say one thing about Clark. People have been ridiculously hard on him lately when it comes to the other subjects. While I didn't agree with the sex decision, the word "selfish" has been thrown around a lot because Clark wants to be human more than anything (so he can be with Lana). I have no problem with this inner struggle. We ARE seeing a show about a teenage Clark. Sure, he's all about me, me, me, but that's a big part of being a teen. I DON'T expect Clark to act exactly like Superman right now. It's a different matter in the case of losing his virginity. A: It's not canon, and B: It's a final decision. That's the thing about Clark. In the end, he should make the best final decision. He didn't do that with the sex issue, which was upsetting. Still, having the inner struggle, that is not the final decision. That's perfectly acceptible, realistic, and "normal" of him. He SHOULD have these inner struggles, and we shouldn't get disgusted with him for having to think things through and discover the right path to follow. Clark should always take the right path, but I don't understand folks being so hard on him for having to learn how to make that choice when he's still just a teen. Clearly, being 18 and having sex hasn't magically matured him, but I never expected it to. However, being raised by the Kents and being the future Superman, I DO expect him to always make the right decision in the end. That's why I was disappointed about the sex thing.

[LaineSV11]

slave 2 moonlight.... you didint have to write a 50 page report on this... one sentence is enough ... you worked far too hard on that

[slave2moonlight]

Sorry, I didn't even realize. It's just the way I am at a keyboard, being a would-be writer and all. I was also annoyed with all the disrespectful debating from both sides in the other forums. Though I'm sure my report will offend just as many people, ha. It's not meant to, I am just trying to reason from my side of it, since my side hasn't been doing much reasoning. I fully support the religious angle, but I realize it is not an effective way to debate something since people have different beliefs.

[shirkie]

That was an excellent and well-written post, slave2moonlight. Don't worry about length, regardless of what other posters say-- no one is forcing them to read your words, and you didn't break any rules, so it's no one's place to tell you "you worked far too hard on that."
shirkie

[LaineSV11]

sorry if i sounded mean... its good that you wrote a lot and your ideas are right

[slave2moonlight]

Thanks Shirkie.

No, Laine, I didn't think you were being/sounded mean. It's cool.