Loved it? Hated? What did you think of #5-18:"Godspeed"

[shy175223]

What did you think of this episode?

[AsteroidMike]

Great origin-ish story for Nora, a good explanation of her confrontation and subsequent fallout with future Iris.

Also, I think Barry was WAY out of pocket at the end to just dump her off in the future. I mean I get his anger and being lied to from day 1, and the fact that she kept going back after learning what Thawne was really like and how Team Flash has been burnt many times previously, but doing that was a bit too much even for him.

[TheSecretVampire]

I get Barry being angry at Nora, but how many times did he go back in time to Thawne for help? I think it was 2-3 times he did that, despite knowing what he knows. Not saying Nora gets a free pass, but Barry acts like he never did similar things for help when he did a few times.


And what a waste of Godspeed, lol. Unless he shows up again in season 5, then that was a waste of a big character just to throw away in 1 episode.

[moviefan2k4]

This was definitely an interesting episode, and I enjoyed it...but it was kinda underwhelming given the month-long hiatus. I think it was a very selfish move for Barry to strand Iris back in her own time, refusing to see her again. Everything Nora did was to see her family, and try to help them the best she could.

I get Barry being angry at Nora, but how many times did he go back in time to Thawne for help? I think it was 2-3 times he did that, despite knowing what he knows. Not saying Nora gets a free pass, but Barry acts like he never did similar things for help when he did a few times.

Exactly; it comes off as hypocritical.

[darkphoenix21]

I get Barry being angry at Nora, but how many times did he go back in time to Thawne for help? I think it was 2-3 times he did that, despite knowing what he knows. Not saying Nora gets a free pass, but Barry acts like he never did similar things for help when he did a few times.

Exactly; it comes off as hypocritical.

Same thing I said on another site...Barry needs to come off his high horse. He’s done the same thing; has lied and mucked up the timeline, time and time again. He didn’t even give Iris a say as to what they were going to do with Nora even after everything was revealed; not even the chance to say goodbye. He’s become a real a$$.

Anyway...

Future Iris will have to inhibit Nora’s abilities thus sacrificing her future relationship with Nora so in the end Nora can have that relationship with the past Iris in order to keep the future intact...otherwise Barry couldn’t have taken Nora back to her own future.

[moviefan2k4]

Future Iris will have to inhibit Nora’s abilities thus sacrificing her future relationship with Nora so in the end Nora can have that relationship with the past Iris in order to keep the future intact...otherwise Barry couldn’t have taken Nora back to her own future.

The writers seem to have been making things up as they went along, regarding the use of time-travel. Basic logic suggests that the younger Eobard Thawne should have been imprisoned in the future, not wearing Wells' face since his older self was erased in the Season 1 finale. I wrote my own thoughts down about this, some time ago (no pun intended). But I never got into "Legends" very much, so my notes don't include anything from that show. Highlight the black spaces below, to read what I came up with.

[SPOILER]

This is my explanation for the lifetime of Eobard Thawne, given what's been revealed so far on "The Flash".

In the very first version of events, called Prime History, Eobard Thawne is born sometime in the year 2151. Given his appearance of being between 35 and 40 years old, it is easily assumed his adult self originally hails from the 2180s or early 2190s. This is also the timeline where Harrison Wells built the original accelerator in 2020, which turned a 31-year-old Barry Allen into The Flash. By the year 2024, he and Iris West were married, and she became a full-time reporter. Barry was friends with Oliver Queen, a.k.a. the Green Arrow.

Sometime prior to the early 2190s, Eobard learned the details behind Barry's accident, and duplicated the process on himself. However, this ability came with a price: history revealed Eobard's future as the greatest enemy of The Flash. Likely driven mad by this news, Eobard's admiration for Barry became hatred, and the enemy desired to kill the hero as a child. Following a battle which also involved the Green Arrow, Eobard and Barry were transported to the year 2000, in the original timeline.

Fighting through Barry's childhood home, it becomes quickly evident that neither of them can win without some kind of sacrifice. To protect himself, the older Barry removes his younger self from the house. Enraged, Eobard kills Nora Allen...which alters the timeline to what's now called Alternate History #1. In this version of the past, Barry's grief prevents him from becoming The Flash...which also erases Eobard's powers. The reason for this is simple: if there is no Flash, then Eobard can never idolize or later hate him...leaving the villain as a mortal man once more.

Unwilling to remain trapped in the past, Eobard stalks Harrison Wells and his wife, Tess Morgan. Shortly thereafter, he arranges a car crash to kill Tess and weaken Wells. This changes the timeline yet again, resulting in Alternate History #2. Most of the show's first season occurs here, with Eobard observing Central City through hidden cameras for years. He builds his own version of STAR Labs, keeping tabs on detective Eddie Thawne to ensure his own birth. This also keeps Eobard in touch with Joe & Iris, since Barry now grows up with them and Eddie works with Joe. Aware of their Prime History fates, Eobard brings Ronnie Raymond, Caitlin Snow, Hartley Rathaway, and Cisco Ramon into the fold. This was probably done to ensure they wouldn't become threats to him, yet he ended up genuinely caring for them...but his hate for Prime History's Barry remains intact.

Needing Barry to get himself back to the 2190s, Eobard purposely causes the particle accelerator's explosion in 2014. Convincing Joe to release Barry into STAR Labs' custody, Eobard trains his would-be enemy, while silencing or killing people who would foil his master plan. The one thing he didn't count on was Eddie's sacrifice, which triggered a time loop. If Eddie dies, then Eobard's never born...but that would also mean he never becomes trapped in the past, thus Eddie has no reason to kill himself. The "black hole" singularity above Central City was probably time's attempt to fix all these different problems, but Firestorm closing it stopped the changes midway, causing a new branch: Alternate History #3.

Because the singularity was not allowed to finish restoring Prime History, Eobard's younger self from that reality survived as a remnant within the Speed Force itself. None of the remnant's actions would have any affect on Prime History, because his existence is the result of his future self's tampering. In the meantime, Barry Allen saves Nora in the year 2000, resulting in Alternate History #4 (a.k.a. Flashpoint). Eobard Prime has now been captured by Barry, and spends most of this new reality in a cage. But when Barry's memories and powers start fading, he's forced to ask Eobard to kill Nora after all. However, this attempt at restoring Alternate History #3 involves bringing Eobard Prime back to the present day...which results in Alternate History #5. All of Season 3's present-day events take place here, though the Eobard working against the Legends appears to be the Speed Force remnant, not the currently-escaped Prime version who killed Nora at Barry's request.

With his remnant killed by the Black Flash, Eobard Prime's fate remains unknown. The memories of various characters suggest he eventually became trapped in the year 2000, per the first-season events of "The Flash"...but the exact circumstances have not been revealed as of yet. The ending of Season 2 in "Legends of Tomorrow" showed a version of Los Angeles in 2017, with dinosaurs roaming the streets...so they somehow created an Alternate History #6. Whether Eobard factors into this new reality remains to be seen.

[/SPOILER]

[AsteroidMike]

I get Barry being angry at Nora, but how many times did he go back in time to Thawne for help? I think it was 2-3 times he did that, despite knowing what he knows. Not saying Nora gets a free pass, but Barry acts like he never did similar things for help when he did a few times.

My interpretation is that I think it's more personal for Barry because he and Thawne have an antagonistic history and in Barry's case he went back in time for help, so he's kinda justified there because it was for the greater good at the time, as well as earlier this season during the 100th episode trying to find fragments to stop Cicada. Compared to Nora who only went back in time just to see her dad. So Barry did personally swear off going back in time after the Flashpoint debacle, presumably because he learned his lesson about it. Nora hasn't quite learned that lesson, however.

And what a waste of Godspeed, lol. Unless he shows up again in season 5, then that was a waste of a big character just to throw away in 1 episode.

Given that Nora fights him in the future, I'm willing to bet he makes more appearances down the road since to the perspective of Team Flash, those events haven't happened yet, and neither has the arrival of the Red Death. So those sound like plot points that could come up in future seasons.

[AsteroidMike]

This was definitely an interesting episode, and I enjoyed it...but it was kinda underwhelming given the month-long hiatus. I think it was a very selfish move for Barry to strand Iris back in her own time, refusing to see her again. Everything Nora did was to see her family, and try to help them the best she could.

Exactly; it comes off as hypocritical.

Oddly enough what Barry did in season 3 was go back to see his family, though he altered past events in order for that to happen so what he did was worse than Nora who only went back just to see them. However, as I said in my last post I think he learned his lesson after getting chewed out half the season for Flashpoint but the times he did go back were justified because they needed to stop the impending bad guy threat.

But throwing Nora back into the future without running it by anyone, even without his history being looked at was just a douchebag move flat out. Can't wait to see him get blasted for that and what he says about it.

Also, special mention to everyone getting mad at Sherloque. I guess from their perspective he was just sitting on that information the whole time, but honestly he's a detective and it's his job to look at things that seem suspicious but he didn't want to say anything to anybody unless he was absolutely 100% sure Nora was talking to Thawne. If he made accusations about her public and he turned out to be wrong, then he'd look bad.

[K. taylor]

Barry only went to Thawne for help those times as last resort, he didn't lie to the team about it, and they were like 5 minute conversations. Nora lied from the beginning, even after hearing what Thawne did to Barry and his parents, and worked with Thawne for *months*. Different scale here. That's why Barry is so angry.

As for putting her back in the future, she'd stayed too long and changed too much in the present as it is. Grace is Cicada 2 because of her. Good riddance.

As for Thawne, he looks like Wells in the future prison because it's the Thawne that was helping the Nazi versions. There's already a canon breakdown somewhere of that when people first asked why it wasn't Matt Lescher.