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  1. #1
    Posting Pro Raissa's Avatar
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    Crisis Thoughts

    I haven't been around in a while, but I just had to put this theorizing somewhere...

    The Arrowverse has been full of on the nose Genre Legacy casting. Berlanti and Co. live for it and put these folks in place with huge grins on their faces, and we adore it. That being the case, I don't think Adrian Paul's casting as Dante is only about Arrow. I think it's also about Crisis. After all, as cool as Dante is, does anyone think they brought in AP just to play one more uber-criminal with mad skills who gets under Ollie's skin by playing on his damage or the damage of those around him. That's been done -- ad nauseam.

    However, I can see TPTB using Dante as commentary on those kinds of villains as the show goes into the final Crisis arc. My theory is that Dante's arc will play out and feed into Crisis as every villain somehow sets the stage for his successor on these shows. The final villain will be The Anti-Monitor. Crisis is DCU's Gathering on Multiversal steroids after all. Who better to act as a Herald, wittingly or otherwise for The Anti-Monitor than a man who's organization is patterned after Hell (The Ninth Circle) and whose goals are destabilization on a smaller global scale for greed and power? And who better to play that man than the erstwhile Highlander himself?

    I can even see a scenario where The Anti-Monitor needs a human vessel in order to operate outside his anti-matter universe. Oliver kills Dante or Dante dies in an act of sacrificial redemption to save Emiko after he realizes he's been duped by cosmic forces, and The Anti-Monitor uses him like a Apocalyptic Edgar suit wielding a dwarfstar broadsword for the final conflagration.
    Last edited by Raissa; 05-08-2019 at 10:59 AM.

  2. #2
    Posting Pro Raissa's Avatar
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    Something just occurred to me. Emiko knew that Laurel was Black Siren. Granted, it would have been relatively easy to work out Laurel wasn't Laurel in a general way, but knowing her E-2 codename requires a little something extra in intel gathering. Because Arrow has a finite number of eps. to wrap this up, narrative economy is their friend. Therefore, Dante filled Emiko in, because the Anti-Monitor is already wearing Dante as an Edgar suit, while he slums it as human, biding his time. He's using Emiko to screw with Ollie and the Team, because he knows Ollie made a deal with the Monitor. Having Dante/The Anti-Monitor be an Adrian Chase/Prometheus variant would fit the show's internal logic, utilize narrative economy to save time and exposition, and build a layered motivation for Dante that would allow for dramatic irony and meta commentary.

  3. #3
    Posting Pro Raissa's Avatar
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    If I'm right, Dante will likely show up during the Flash Forwards at some point. Viewers will wonder why Oliver never defeated him, not realizing that the Flash Forwards are Crisis already happening. I'm betting that the bomb that Felicity is involved with in the future is some sort of temporal device cooked up by Team Flash and/or The Legends to change reality or bring the past and future together so all characters interact for the final push.

  4. #4
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
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    Sounds good to me.


    I just hope they have The Monitor appear at the very end of each current season finales to tell the heroes that The Crisis is coming. That would be a great hook to head into the "off season" of each show.

  5. #5
    Posting Pro Raissa's Avatar
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    Thanks. If I'm calling this right, it's because there's not much left to call. Narrative Inertia is a thing. This huge story ball is already rolling down the hill, and it's going to keep rolling until it gets to the bottom. There are are only so many outcomes at the bottom. Some more thoughts...

    I'm very selective about the comics I read (vision issues, limited funds). I compensate by reading wikis. According to what I've read, there's a point in Crisis where The Anti-Monitor kills The Monitor. It would make sense for the writers to insert The Anti-Monitor's "There can be only one!" retort at that point.

    Also, I expect to see Dante on other Earths. Viewers will think it's doppelgängers of Dante, but he'll "reveal" himself to be one man. He'll probably offer a story about killing his counterparts before they killed him and consolidating multiverse resources. In reality, he's always been the Anti-Monitor in disguise, playing with his food.

  6. #6
    Posting Pro Raissa's Avatar
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    Ok. Subtle Arrow isn't. Eden Corps with the front Galaxy One is TOTAL Crisis foreshadowing. In addition, the exposition character beat behind Mia's tattoo and codename screams her ultimate fate. She'll fade away in Crisis and a different Mia will operate on the One Earth in Galaxy One in the Post-Crisis stabilized "Eden." If I'm right, Dante will be the head of Eden Corps. It's just a question of how much of the ultimate outcome will be his/The Anti-Monitor's doing and how much will be Future!Team Arrow throwing wrenches in his plan.

  7. #7
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    We just found out in last night's ep that Dante answers to Emiko! He trained her but now she's his boss.

  8. #8
    Posting Pro Raissa's Avatar
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    My theory still works. If he's revealed as the Anti-Monitor, the writers could parallel his macro scale betrayal of Emiko and the Multiverse with Robert's smaller scale betrayal of her. I suspect Dante had her Mother killed to prime her to destabilize her brother and the world at large. Plus at a basic structural level, placing Big Bad focus on Emiko, takes the focus off him, setting up the potential shock value of the reveal.

  9. #9
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raissa View Post
    Something just occurred to me. Emiko knew that Laurel was Black Siren. Granted, it would have been relatively easy to work out Laurel wasn't Laurel in a general way, but knowing her E-2 codename requires a little something extra in intel gathering. Because Arrow has a finite number of eps. to wrap this up, narrative economy is their friend. Therefore, Dante filled Emiko in, because the Anti-Monitor is already wearing Dante as an Edgar suit, while he slums it as human, biding his time. He's using Emiko to screw with Ollie and the Team, because he knows Ollie made a deal with the Monitor. Having Dante/The Anti-Monitor be an Adrian Chase/Prometheus variant would fit the show's internal logic, utilize narrative economy to save time and exposition, and build a layered motivation for Dante that would allow for dramatic irony and meta commentary.
    I think there is also a logical path that Emiko could have learned about the name Black Siren without needing the Anti Monitor to tell anyone. E2 Laurel worked for Zoom in Central City pretty publically. Then was imprisoned by ARGUS. Then she was broken out and worked for Chase. Then Cayden James. And THEN Diaz. She as Black Siren hasn't been hiding in the shadows. Tons of people would know about her.

    There likely were police records and news articles about Black Siren the first time she showed up. THen a slew of Argus related workers that would know. (and we know Dante had a connection in Argus) and then when she moved to Starling City, she worked as BS within the criminal community for more than a year so when ADA Laurel Lance suddenly returned from the dead, you can be sure there were plenty of people that threw their popcorn at their tvs and scoffed and knew it was most likely just her evil doppelganger posing as the E1 Laurel.

    All Emiko would have had to do was do some looking and and she'd figure it out.
    Last edited by BkWurm1; 03-29-2019 at 01:19 PM.

  10. #10
    Posting Pro Raissa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    I think there is also a logical path that Emiko could have learned about the name Black Siren without needing the Anti Monitor to tell anyone. E2 Laurel worked for Zoom in Central City pretty publically. Then was imprisoned by ARGUS. Then she was broken out and worked for Chase. Then Cayden James. And THEN Diaz. She as Black Siren hasn't been hiding in the shadows. Tons of people would know about her...
    All very true, and certainly the likeliest explanation. That said, Arrow is going off the air with Crisis in a limited number of episodes. If nothing else, narrative economy dictates that the Anti-Monitor be a part of connecting the E-2 dots, even if other characters work it out the old-fashioned way. In the end, the Anti-Monitor could even be used for meta-commentary, gloating that near omnipotence is quicker than mere mortal logic and detective work.
    Last edited by Raissa; 03-30-2019 at 07:04 AM.

  11. #11
    Posting Pro Raissa's Avatar
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    On the face of it my theory is incorrect. However, there are variables...

    First, the canon Anti-Monitor was able to construct new bodies for himself.

    Two, the canon Monitor had an adopted daughter -- the character Lyla is very loosely based on. They could easily switch, making Emiko the Anti-Monitor's foster daughter. It would be a very CW twist if The Anti-Monitor offered to save Emiko as he doomed everyone else in the Multi-verse out of twisted, but genuine sentiment.

    Third, The Ninth Circle goes back centuries, which could lead to The Anti-Monitor intoning about those centuries in a meta nod to Adrian Paul's voice overs for the Highlander saga sell in early seasons.

    Fourth, again at the meta level, it would verge on criminal if fans didn't get at least one sword duel during Adrian Paul's tenure, and his character would have to not be dead for that,
    Last edited by Raissa; 04-22-2019 at 07:16 PM.

  12. #12
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raissa View Post
    On the face of it my theory is incorrect. However, there are variables...

    First, the canon Anti-Monitor was able to construct new bodies for himself.

    Two, the canon Monitor had an adopted daughter -- the character Lyla is very loosely based on. They could easily switch, making Emiko the Anti-Monitor's foster daughter. It would be a very CW twist if The Anti-Monitor offered to save Emiko as he doomed everyone else in the Multi-verse out of twisted, but genuine sentiment.

    Third, The Ninth Circle goes back centuries, which could lead to The Anti-Monitor intoning about those centuries in a meta nod to Adrian Paul's voice overs for the Highlander saga sell in early seasons.

    Fourth, again at the meta level, it would verge on criminal if fans didn't get at least one sword duel during Adrian Paul's tenure, and his character would have to not be dead for that,

    What a wasted character.


    Adrian Paul is great, but wow, they really blew that one, eh? He seemed to be the ultimate villain and gets offed like that? lol so stupid.

  13. #13
    Posting Pro Raissa's Avatar
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    Yeah. Adrian Paul is either The Anti-Monitor incognito playing with his food, or Paul is joining Michael Emerson in the They-Brought-Him-In-For-That? Club.

  14. #14
    Posting Pro Raissa's Avatar
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    Something occurred to me...

    Arrow is going off the air, which means there's no point in putting Emiko in prison at the end of this. They won't have the luxury of a future rehabilitation story line. That means Emiko will likely die. That's problematic, though. Oliver won't kill his sister. Guilt and basic decency will prevent him. If I'm right, that leaves Dante/The Anti-Monitor to do it. He'll feel betrayed, and her death could serve as both her tragic fate and the overall reveal of his true identity.

  15. #15
    Posting Pro Raissa's Avatar
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    Fwiw...

    https://twitter.com/adrianpaul1/stat...51531065593857

    and

    https://twitter.com/adrianpaul1/stat...51994175451136

    If AP's comments turn out to be spoilers masked as PR, it means we'll see him on Supergirl and as well as Arrow again. I do have theories about how The Anti-Monitor might show up on the other shows. If I'm correct, I'll discuss those theories in the relevant show forums after various season finales. Right now, I want to focus on Arrow as that's the show going off the air in the wake of Crisis.

    *I do find it interesting that a reply to the first tweet references alternate Earths, but AP uses the word "universe" in the second tweet. The Anti-Monitor is from another universe.
    Last edited by Raissa; 05-04-2019 at 04:36 PM.

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