Gotham #5.8 "Nothing's Shocking"

[Haggard01]

Only 5 more hours to go until the episode starts.

Edit: Only about little over half an hour to go until he episode starts.

[Aries83]

I liked this episode, even though it was mostly filler.

I'm not sure why, but the opening scene was HILARIOUS to me. Barbara had some good one-liners. I couldn't stop laughing (even when/after Dix knifed his buddies)

The Scarface/Man-Bat?/Jane Doe plots were ok, but it's so late in the game to introduce new characters (or iterations of characters) with only 4 episodes left.

At least it all led to some good character moments for everybody (Harvey clearing his conscience, Penguin/Edward coming together, and Bruce reassuring Alfred).

I suppose it was only a matter of time before Barbara's pregnancy was in peril, right? Will the baby be ok?

An entertaining episode, but I'm hoping next week is better. What did everybody else think?

[costas22]

Yeah, a filler and not at times not an even good one. Remember when we heard that Gotham's 5th season got bumped from 10 to 12 episodes? This and next week's episodes feel like episodes that they came up with at the last minute to make the numbers. The fact that we saw so many random characters show up while the likes of Selina, Edouardo, Walker and Lee were missing spoke volumes.

Three standalone storylines in this episode. The main one was Jane Doe. It wasn't terrible, but I can't say it thrilled me either. I mean, we already knew Harvey did some shady things before Jim came along. The lasting legacy of this episode is probably the fact that Harvey is despondent at the end of the episode. This will probably play into the fact that Harvey is isolated in the flash forward we saw in the premiere.

The second storyline was a bit more interesting because we saw the aftermath of the toxins' pollution while Afred and Bruce dealt with the aftermath of the Wayne Manor's destruction. It was also Killer Croc's unofficial introduction! Again, the storylines didn't advance a lot, but there some nice character bonding moments.

The Penguin/Nygma arc I found silly. I get that they brought Penn back as a last minute change, but the explanation of his survival was just lazy. He "just woke up in the morgue and stitched his wounds"? That was lame even for Gotham's sci fi standards. The dummy was tiresome after a while. The only good part was Ed and Oswald bonding at the end. Btw, you could see Nygma shooting Penn a mile away.

Looks like there's been a significant time jump since the last episode. Barbara's baby bump was very noticeable. I liked the fact that she and Jim talked about the baby in a more mature manner this week. As for the baby, I think it was safe at the end of the episode. Barbara was just shocked by the whole deal.

I didn't miss Lee this week. Shocking, I know...

P.S. Erin's hair length also suggests that this episode was shot much later in the schedule.

[Aries83]

Three standalone storylines in this episode. The main one was Jane Doe. It wasn't terrible, but I can't say it thrilled me either. I mean, we already knew Harvey did some shady things before Jim came along.

I liked it and the callback to Basil/Clayface.

The lasting legacy of this episode is probably the fact that Harvey is despondent . . . . isolated in the flash forward

Something must go down to cause that. Maybe one last push by the government to clear the city? Maybe at that point Bullock tells Gordon he's tired and is going his own way?

The second storyline was a bit more interesting because we saw the aftermath of the toxins' pollution while Afred and Bruce dealt with the aftermath of the Wayne Manor's destruction. It was also Killer Croc's unofficial introduction!

I totally meant Killer Croc when I said Man-Bat. Not sure why I got the two confused... Still, Croc is an interesting choice at this stage. I can't imagine there's a lot they can do with the character. I preferred Jane Doe to this storyline, actually.

The Penguin/Nygma arc I found silly. I get that they brought Penn back as a last minute change, but the explanation of his survival was just lazy. He "just woke up in the morgue and stitched his wounds"? That was lame even for Gotham's sci fi standards.

I agree. Also, if I remember, there wasn't a lot of distance between him and the gun he was shot with. So, how could he have even survived?

The dummy was tiresome after a while.

It felt really random to me. Penn always did bear a resemblance to Arnold Wesker/The Ventriloquist, though. However, I don't think being shot and left for dead causes the extent of Dissociative Identity Disorder The Ventriloquist suffers from. If that were true, EVERYBODY on Gotham would suffer from it... I never really cared for The Ventriloquist, though, and always found him to be silly, but it was a nice nod to the character.

It's kind of a shame to bring him back and kill him so suddenly—unless Scarface is also a neurosurgeon who can stitch up that wound the best he can?

The only good part was Ed and Oswald bonding at the end. Btw, you could see Nygma shooting Penn a mile away.

I agree.

I didn't miss Lee this week. Shocking, I know...

How daRE YOU, HOW DARE YOU!

[costas22]

Something must go down to cause that. Maybe one last push by the government to clear the city? Maybe at that point Bullock tells Gordon he's tired and is going his own way?

Something like that. I think we've already seen some glimpses of Harvey growing disillusioned and this episode probably pushed him further along that way. Also, every time you see Harper's screentime increase, you just know they are doing a storyline about Harvey leaving Jim.

I totally meant Killer Croc when I said Man-Bat. Not sure why I got the two confused... Still, Croc is an interesting choice at this stage. I can't imagine there's a lot they can do with the character. I preferred Jane Doe to this storyline, actually.

Heh, don't worry. I get my Batman rogues confused all the time as well. If I hadn't read an interview by the showrunner, I wouldn't have figured out this was Croc. They said that they can't introduce Killer Croc at this stage (Suicide Squad movie restrictions?), but we should look out for a red herring. This was it, I'm guessing.

I agree. Also, if I remember, there wasn't a lot of distance between him and the gun he was shot with. So, how could he have even survived?

He couldn't have. It was definitive and at that point they weren't looking to bring the character back. I just don't get why they didn't say Strange revived him. This is usually their go-to excuse when they want to bring back a dead character. Yes, Strange was also involved in Jane Doe's storyline, but it would have made more sense than Penn suddenly waking up and stitching himself.

It felt really random to me. Penn always did bear a resemblance to Arnold Wesker/The Ventriloquist, though. However, I don't think being shot and left for dead causes the extent of Dissociative Identity Disorder The Ventriloquist suffers from. If that were true, EVERYBODY on Gotham would suffer from it... I never really cared for The Ventriloquist, though, and always found him to be silly, but it was a nice nod to the character.

It's kind of a shame to bring him back and kill him so suddenly—unless Scarface is also a neurosurgeon who can stitch up that wound the best he can?

Oh, I don't know. Might be difficult for Scarface because he got his head blown up pretty bad.

Anyway, you are right. I saw some articles online that suggest that this was truly the show's version of The Ventriloquist. To be honest, I wasn't familiar with this comics villain. I thought he and Scarface were something the show cooked up. If this is the case and they were just looking for an homage, I was harsh in my criticism. Apparently the original plan was for The Ventriloquist to get an extended storyline in season 5, but it was scrapped when the season got a reduced order of episodes.

How daRE YOU, HOW DARE YOU!

LOL, I know, right? How could I not miss more melodramatic scenes between her and Jim about how they have done terrible things to each other but they still love each other.

[Aries83]

I think we've already seen some glimpses of Harvey growing disillusioned and this episode probably pushed him further along that way. Also, every time you see Harper's screentime increase, you just know they are doing a storyline about Harvey leaving Jim.

And you just know that Bullock will be at Gordon's side at the last minute, when it matters the most.

They said that they can't introduce Killer Croc at this stage (Suicide Squad movie restrictions?), but we should look out for a red herring. This was it, I'm guessing.

The shot of his face was so brief that I didn't even see it...

I just don't get why they didn't say Strange revived him. This is usually their go-to excuse when they want to bring back a dead character. Yes, Strange was also involved in Jane Doe's storyline, but it would have made more sense than Penn suddenly waking up and stitching himself.

I agree. He was always making sure he had a steady supply of subjects at Indian Hill. I could totally see him sending people out into the city to recover bodies for him to experiment on.

I saw some articles online that suggest that this was truly the show's version of The Ventriloquist. . . . I wasn't familiar with this comics villain. I thought he and Scarface were something the show cooked up. If this is the case and they were just looking for an homage, I was harsh in my criticism. Apparently the original plan was for The Ventriloquist to get an extended storyline in season 5, but it was scrapped when the season got a reduced order of episodes.

I only know the version from TAS, but I recognized the dummy right away (and the fact that Penguin kept calling him Arnold (for Arnold Wesker), but I really didn't care for those episodes when I was a kid

LOL, I know, right? How could I not miss more melodramatic scenes between her and Jim about how they have done terrible things to each other but they still love each other.

I'm sure they'll try to make up for it in the coming episodes