Gotham #5.6 "13 Stitches"

[Haggard01]

3 more hours to go.

So glad Gotham is finally back this week.

[Haggard01]

One hour left until Gotham 5x06 airs.

[Aries83]

I really liked this episode. I thought it wasn't too slow or busy. Just right.

Thank God they removed the chip from Nygma (I figured it out right after he was shocked...).

The Penguin/Selina scenes, for me, were the most interesting—although we all know something will occur later that will prevent them from leaving Gotham. What could that be? On another note, thank God Magpie was done away with. What an ANNOYING portrayal of a character I've never heard of!

Leslie's return was, actually, ok. I was happy that she was able to save herself from the soldiers—even if she wasn't technically aware of it (based on the ending), because Gordon thinking she needed saving is so played out now.

I figured Jaime Murray was Walker before it was uttered. No surprise that she's working with Professor Strange (like I thought). I don't really see what her endgame is, though?

I was surprised Jeremiah got the drop on Alfred like that, but if he didn't, I guess we wouldn't have a plot. Probably to make Bruce feel more isolated once the anniversary of his parents' murder comes around.

Barbara announcing she was pregnant was odd, but: I guess she must've been pretty close to that time of the month to know so quickly? Otherwise, it must be a ploy to keep Lee away from Jim if she's still has feelings for him...

It was a good episode, though. Can't wait for next week. What did everybody else think?

[costas22]

Well well, where to begin? It was certainly an eventful episode which didn't slow down at any point. I loved most things about it, with the exception of 1-2 very annoying aspects.

The main storyline was all about Eduardo (finally I got the spelling right ) and Walker's agenda. And in that respect, I was glad to see the episode move the story forward a great deal. Of course we still don't have all the answers. We just know that Walker wanted to get control of Gotham and she used Eduardo's team, Dr Strange and Lee and Ed as pawns to get her way. I was also very glad to see Walker finally show up in person. Jaime Murray looks like a familiar face, although I haven't seen any of the shows she's been credited for. All in all, we are still not on Day 393, but it's starting to become very clear why Jim teams up with Ed, Oswald and Harvey to take on the military.

Looks like Strange will turn Eduardo into Bane. Obviously the story is not the same as it was in the comics, but I don't mind that. I just hope Bane looks and sounds menacing. Some of the photos we've seen are not too encouraging. The only nitipick I had with the whole Jim/Eduardo showdown was how Eduardo just left Jim lying without noticing his gun was nearby. That was lazy writing.

One of the biggest pluses of this storyline was Nygma getting to shine a bit. His scenes with the astronaut suit at the GCPD had me laughing. Especially when Harvey solved the riddle and wouldn't shut up about it.

The Penguin/Selina stuff was fun, ONLY when the two of them were alone in a scene together. Magpie just didn't do anything for me and she really was irritating. Oh well, at least we won't see her again. Looking forward to more Penguin and Selina stuff. And credit to Camren for her acting this week. She was very Catwoman-like in her mannerisms.

Jeremiah's plan is in motion. Although we have pretty much figured out what it will be about, I can't wait to see it unfold. Jeremiah is one of my favorite villains at the moment, so an episode where he's at the forefront will be most welcome. And judging by the promo we saw for next week's, Ace Chemicals and its acid vat come into play. Which I don't get, personally. Isn't Jeremiah white enough already?

Last (and always least) Lee is back. Yay. I don't want to hate on the character, but this episode is exactly why I wasn't looking forward to her return. She was immediately thrust in the Jim/Barbara stuff. Maybe Barbara lied about the pregnancy out of jealousy. Maybe she truly is pregnant. Whatever the case, it's the kind of storyline this show could do without. Also, Jim's blinders when it comes to Lee are very peculiar. He immediately acts like she's trustworthy and reliable the minute she returns. Isn't Lee the same person who crowned herself as Queen of the Narrows, robbed a bank at the end of the season and mocked Jim for his morality? Now she's back to being good old mild mannered Lee? Eh. To be honest I liked Jim's scene with Barbara more. It felt more real and it wasn't trying to whitewash Barbara's actions (Jim sure remembers those...). If there's going to be a couple out of this, I'd prefer it to be Jim and Barbara. But above that, I'd prefer it if this doesn't become a full blown love triangle.

They haven't released the description for episode 5.08 yet, so looks like we'll be getting an extended hiatus after next week.

[Aries83]

Walker wanted to get control of Gotham and she used Eduardo's team, Dr Strange and Lee and Ed as pawns to get her way.

What I don't get is why, though. In the last episode, they confirmed she was the US Secretary of Homeland Security. Why would she want to take down Haven? All I can come up with is she needs the chaos in Gotham to continue so she can retain her position in the government? Unless there's more to her than we've been presented...

It's starting to become very clear why Jim teams up with Ed, Oswald and Harvey to take on the military.

Yeah. What's also funny is how irritated I was that they made Nygma their robot with the chip, but I didn't even think about the flash forward (where he looked a ok...)...

One of the biggest pluses of this storyline was Nygma getting to shine a bit. His scenes with the astronaut suit at the GCPD had me laughing. Especially when Harvey solved the riddle and wouldn't shut up about it.

It was a welcome change of pace. I'm sure Cory Michael Smith was very happy to have something else to do the week it was filmed. Overall, his character has been wasted.

The Penguin/Selina stuff was fun, ONLY when the two of them were alone in a scene together.

I agree!

Magpie just didn't do anything for me and she really was irritating. Oh well, at least we won't see her again.

When Oswald shot her, I said, "Thank you!" She gets my vote for most idiotic/annoying character thus far!

Jeremiah is one of my favorite villains at the moment, so an episode where he's at the forefront will be most welcome.

I like him ok, but I've noticed a change. He seems WAY more theatrical this time around compared to last season. It seems like Cameron Monaghan is trying to do a weird transatlantic accent, too?

Ace Chemicals and its acid vat come into play. Which I don't get, personally. Isn't Jeremiah white enough already?

It does seem redundant. Then again, maybe he won't fall in?

Lee is back. Yay.

this episode is exactly why I wasn't looking forward to her return. She was immediately thrust in the Jim/Barbara stuff. Maybe Barbara lied about the pregnancy out of jealousy. Maybe she truly is pregnant. Whatever the case, it's the kind of storyline this show could do without.

I totally agree. Then again, I liked the fact that they dropped the Elvira/Morticia/Lily Munster costume. She looked SO normal, it was almost jarring...

The case with Barbara is a head-scratcher. In the episode, she references the rendezvous they had in Jim's office, "The other night." If only a couple days have gone by, there's NO way she would know she was pregnant THAT fast. That's why I said she must've been close to having her period (and missed it). Otherwise, she wouldn't know and a baby can't materialize within her after a couple days...Are you kidding me?

To be honest I liked Jim's scene with Barbara more. It felt more real and it wasn't trying to whitewash Barbara's actions (Jim sure remembers those...). If there's going to be a couple out of this, I'd prefer it to be Jim and Barbara. But above that, I'd prefer it if this doesn't become a full blown love triangle.

I agree, and I think Erin Richards has done a great job of transitioning Barbara back to semi-normalcy and managed to make it believable. That's hard to do.

looks like we'll be getting an extended hiatus after next week.

Then two more, another break and so on...

[costas22]

What I don't get is why, though. In the last episode, they confirmed she was the US Secretary of Homeland Security. Why would she want to take down Haven? All I can come up with is she needs the chaos in Gotham to continue so she can retain her position in the government? Unless there's more to her than we've been presented...

From what I understood this week, her way of dealing with the Gotham crisis was letting the city deteriorate into complete chaos and despair. And only then was she going to send in the troops to clear the city. That's why she was denying Jim any help and telling him to wait. This plan was thwarted when Bruce called in the helicopter with the supplies and when Jim set up Haven. Hopefully we will find out soon why she has such hatred for the city.

She's gone rogue and surprisingly the government hasn't reined her in. I hope they explain that one.

It was a welcome change of pace. I'm sure Cory Michael Smith was very happy to have something else to do the week it was filmed. Overall, his character has been wasted.

Indeed, because he's taken a backseat to other bad guys. Nygma's best spell on the show was when he went full villain after he killed Kringle and when he had his rivalry with Penguin in season 3. Now he's just one of the characters who keeps switching allegiances every week.

But this was certainly a good episode for him. I also loved the fact that when Jim and Lee were in the Captain's office together, Ed high tailed it. They dropped the Lee-Ed pairing, which is definitely for the best.

When Oswald shot her, I said, "Thank you!" She gets my vote for most idiotic/annoying character thus far!

Agreed. I don't know how the character is in the comics, but here she came across as a very poor Harley Quinn imitation.

I like him ok, but I've noticed a change. He seems WAY more theatrical this time around compared to last season. It seems like Cameron Monaghan is trying to do a weird transatlantic accent, too?

I caught that as well. At first I didn't pay attention because I had this weird idea that Cameron has Irish roots (the name, the hair...) and it was just his real accent coming to the surface. But turns out he was born and raised in the States and he has an American accent in real life.

I agree though. It seems that he's been asked to make Jeremiah more animated this season. That's probably a conundrum the writers encountered last season: "We killed off Jerome who looked and sounded like the Joker and we replaced him with Jeremiah who's too ice cold to be the Joker". Personally, I liked Jeremiah just fine last season. I didn't mind a more serious Joker.

It does seem redundant. Then again, maybe he won't fall in?

Oh, I think they will be too tempted not to throw him in. The show loves its comic book homages.

I totally agree. Then again, I liked the fact that they dropped the Elvira/Morticia/Lily Munster costume. She looked SO normal, it was almost jarring...

Good point! No heavy make up either. Morena doesn't need it.

The case with Barbara is a head-scratcher. In the episode, she references the rendezvous they had in Jim's office, "The other night." If only a couple days have gone by, there's NO way she would know she was pregnant THAT fast. That's why I said she must've been close to having her period (and missed it). Otherwise, she wouldn't know and a baby can't materialize within her after a couple days...Are you kidding me?

It is weird, isn't it? So either "the other night" was just a figure of speech and more time has actually passed or she's horrible at lying! If I had to take a guess, I would say that it's been 1-2 months since Jim and Barbara hooked up and that line was poorly added to the script. I mean, if it's only been a couple of weeks since they had sex, Jim would have questioned the validity of her claims, but he he didn't. So it's definitely been longer than that.

Then two more, another break and so on...

Looks like I was wrong. We will get new episodes on February 28th and on March 7th. So as things stand the likelier scenario is a 4-week hiatus before we get the last 3 episodes.

[Aries83]

From what I understood this week, her way of dealing with the Gotham crisis was letting the city deteriorate into complete chaos and despair. And only then was she going to send in the troops to clear the city. That's why she was denying Jim any help and telling him to wait. . . Hopefully we will find out soon why she has such hatred for the city . . . She's gone rogue and surprisingly the government hasn't reined her in. I hope they explain that one.

I wonder if she's from Gotham originally?

I was just thinking that she was letting the city go down in order to sell the idea (to her bosses or the rest of the country watching what's going on in Gotham) that if the government doesn't act, look what happens. Kind of like, "Look at me, I was right. That's why I'm the Secretary of Homeland Security." She needs the chaos in order to stay in whatever power position she has secured within the government. If that's the case, she's a total b****!

I also loved the fact that when Jim and Lee were in the Captain's office together, Ed high tailed it. They dropped the Lee-Ed pairing, which is definitely for the best.

I liked the snarky comment he made too. I wonder if that's the writers' way of saying they're officially done as a couple?

she came across as a very poor Harley Quinn imitation.

I actually thought it was Harley when she first appeared. I was like, "Pick ONE costume and stick to it, girl."...

Personally, I liked Jeremiah just fine last season. I didn't mind a more serious Joker.

Me too. Perhaps they felt the need to have him be that way since Harley (and the actress' portrayal) is a little intense...

Oh, I think they will be too tempted not to throw him in. The show loves its comic book homages.

Why not just have him take a bath in it while doing a musical number...

It is weird, isn't it? So either "the other night" was just a figure of speech and more time has actually passed or she's horrible at lying! If I had to take a guess, I would say that it's been 1-2 months since Jim and Barbara hooked up and that line was poorly added to the script. I mean, if it's only been a couple of weeks since they had sex, Jim would have questioned the validity of her claims, but he he didn't. So it's definitely been longer than that.

I was thinking a week might've gone by. I actually Googled it after the episode. Some women can tell after 7-10 days. Then again, where the hell is she going to get a pregnancy test when the city is in such ruin?

We will get new episodes on February 28th and on March 7th. So as things stand the likelier scenario is a 4-week hiatus before we get the last 3 episodes.

That sucks. Then again, sometimes it's good to have a break to catch up/watch other shows in the meantime.

[Haggard01]

From what I understood this week, her way of dealing with the Gotham crisis was letting the city deteriorate into complete chaos and despair. And only then was she going to send in the troops to clear the city. That's why she was denying Jim any help and telling him to wait. This plan was thwarted when Bruce called in the helicopter with the supplies and when Jim set up Haven. Hopefully we will find out soon why she has such hatred for the city.

She's gone rogue and surprisingly the government hasn't reined her in. I hope they explain that one.

Assuming Walker is even government and not like one of Ras's children coming into finish the job her father started.

But this was certainly a good episode for him. I also loved the fact that when Jim and Lee were in the Captain's office together, Ed high tailed it. They dropped the Lee-Ed pairing, which is definitely for the best.

Yeah Riddler's scenes, especially in the GCPD were one of the highlights of the episode. It's so nice to see him actually get something to do and not be in romance with Lee.

I'm enjoying Riddler's interactions with Fox to. I hope we see more of that if anything.

Loved Ed got out of there as well and yep on dropping that.

Agreed. I don't know how the character is in the comics, but here she came across as a very poor Harley Quinn imitation.

Count me in on being another person glad when she got killed off. Magpie was boring and a detraction on this episode. I don't how she is in the comics but outside of a few appearances she hasn't shown up much.

I actually think Penguin killed her in the comics to.

I agree though. It seems that he's been asked to make Jeremiah more animated this season. That's probably a conundrum the writers encountered last season: "We killed off Jerome who looked and sounded like the Joker and we replaced him with Jeremiah who's too ice cold to be the Joker". Personally, I liked Jeremiah just fine last season. I didn't mind a more serious Joker.

Oh, I think they will be too tempted not to throw him in. The show loves its comic book homages.

Yeah I actually liked Jeremiah last season as a more serious Joker to and my only issue was with how the whole twin story was handled.

For Jeremiah getting thrown into the chemical vat? Yeah that's going to happen, especially if the recently leaked pictures of Jeremiah from 5x12 has been any indication.

I can up load them into the spoiler section for the pictures if you want so let me know or just do a basic Google search.

Anyway back to Jeremiah I think the thing is he's supposed to be having a bit more of a sanity slippage on his own into more of loony, wild vile.

Which yes this show does love it's comic book homages to.

Good point! No heavy make up either. Morena doesn't need it.

Yes I have to agree with you both.

It is weird, isn't it? So either "the other night" was just a figure of speech and more time has actually passed or she's horrible at lying! If I had to take a guess, I would say that it's been 1-2 months since Jim and Barbara hooked up and that line was poorly added to the script. I mean, if it's only been a couple of weeks since they had sex, Jim would have questioned the validity of her claims, but he he didn't. So it's definitely been longer than that.

I'd say it's the second one of just more like a figure of speech and less of being that recent.

[costas22]

I wonder if she's from Gotham originally?

I was just thinking that she was letting the city go down in order to sell the idea (to her bosses or the rest of the country watching what's going on in Gotham) that if the government doesn't act, look what happens. Kind of like, "Look at me, I was right. That's why I'm the Secretary of Homeland Security." She needs the chaos in order to stay in whatever power position she has secured within the government. If that's the case, she's a total b****!

Possibly. I love Haggard's idea, I must say. Imagine if it turns out she's Talia or Nyssa Al Ghul.

I liked the snarky comment he made too. I wonder if that's the writers' way of saying they're officially done as a couple?

That's how I interpreted it. If they were going to continue that storyline at all, I think Ed and Lee would have shared a scene here. Come to think of it, Ed didn't even wonder where she was at any point during this season.

Why not just have him take a bath in it while doing a musical number...

I was thinking a week might've gone by. I actually Googled it after the episode. Some women can tell after 7-10 days. Then again, where the hell is she going to get a pregnancy test when the city is in such ruin?

Good question! Come to think if it, where does she find all her makeup tools? There's a good chance she lied out of jealousy, but I hope it isn't the case. Even as a villain, I want to believe that Barbara is above histrionics like that.

I'm enjoying Riddler's interactions with Fox to. I hope we see more of that if anything.

Definitely. They have a fun rapport as 2 different sides of the same coin.

Count me in on being another person glad when she got killed off. Magpie was boring and a detraction on this episode. I don't how she is in the comics but outside of a few appearances she hasn't shown up much.

I actually think Penguin killed her in the comics to.

He did? Good. Then I'm glad they didn't waste any time following the comics' lead with that one.

I can up load them into the spoiler section for the pictures if you want so let me know or just do a basic Google search.

Thanks for the heads up. Just saw the photos. It really is a startling transformation! Cameron Monaghan must be amused by how much make up they keep adding to his face. For me, I still don't think the vat is necessary in terms of Jeremiah's character (he already is the Joker, IMO). But lets wait and see how it plays out.

I'd say it's the second one of just more like a figure of speech and less of being that recent.

Some time reference would be nice. After the premiere, I hoped each episode would inform us what day of No Man's Land we were on, but it didn't happen. So now it's hard to tell how much time has passed since Jim and Barbara hooked up 2 episodes back.

[Haggard01]

Possibly. I love Haggard's idea, I must say. Imagine if it turns out she's Talia or Nyssa Al Ghul.

Glad you love that idea. Let's just say I'm going with Nyssa and a leaker who got kicked off Reddit because he was also involved with the leaked Jeremiah pics among a few other leaks, said that's who she was as well.

Definitely. They have a fun rapport as 2 different sides of the same coin.

Yep.

He did? Good. Then I'm glad they didn't waste any time following the comics' lead with that one.

Actually I stand corrected since I went to look it up and she was murdered by the Tally Man under the orders of Great White Shark, who was chipping away at the Penguin's empire.

So not killed by Penguin then but even still I'm glad he did in the show.

Thanks for the heads up. Just saw the photos. It really is a startling transformation! Cameron Monaghan must be amused by how much make up they keep adding to his face. For me, I still don't think the vat is necessary in terms of Jeremiah's character (he already is the Joker, IMO). But lets wait and see how it plays out.

Yeah it really is a startling transformation. Yeah Cameron must be and me neither on the vat is needed. Even for the physical appearance, I like the one he has now.

And Cameron Monaghan said in a tweet that his appearance in the finale is "vicious, nightmare-fuel horror" and given those pictures yeah I can see why for sure.

Some time reference would be nice. After the premiere, I hoped each episode would inform us what day of No Man's Land we were on, but it didn't happen. So now it's hard to tell how much time has passed since Jim and Barbara hooked up 2 episodes back.

Yeah I thought we would get the same on the episode to inform us of how much time has passed but they didn't do that.

[costas22]

Glad you love that idea. Let's just say I'm going with Nyssa and a leaker who got kicked off Reddit because he was also involved with the leaked Jeremiah pics among a few other leaks, said that's who she was as well.

After watching the episode again, I must say that it looks very plausible. Her clothing, her mission, the way she talks about Gotham...

And Cameron Monaghan said in a tweet that his appearance in the finale is "vicious, nightmare-fuel horror" and given those pictures yeah I can see why for sure.

Hmm, interesting. Since we heard about a flash forward, I wonder if these leaked photos show Jeremiah in the future.

Yeah I thought we would get the same on the episode to inform us of how much time has passed but they didn't do that.

I was a bit wrong, as it turns out. In last week's episode, there's a scene where Jim and Harvey are discussing the fact that Lee was Walker's pawn and they say that Walker's plan goes back 3 months (to the time the bridges blew).

Meaning that No Man's Land right now is somewhere between Day 90 and Day 100. The problem there is that in the premiere we were on Day 81. Which by default means that the events of the last 6 episodes (including Lee and Jim having sex) took place in 10-20 days.

Something's off.