Gotham #5.5 "Pena Dura"

[Haggard01]

Talk about the January 31 episode of Gotham here!

So ten and 3 minutes before the start of 5x05.

[Aries83]

I thought the episode was ok, but ran a little slow.

However, the reveals/endings made up for it.

My favorite parts were:

• The heart-to-heart between Bruce and Selina - A good callback to Season 1
• The face-to-face between Oswald and Nygma - So long overdue, but strangely satisfying!
• The pep talk Harvey gave Bruce - Unexpected and something different for Harvey, which is always good.

As for the rest of it, the plot with Nygma took a turn that I didn't expect, and I don't think it's for the best. Now, he's a controllable prototype super-soldier for the government, not just plain Nygma/Riddler? I don't like it.

I find it sad, actually. He has no control over his life/personality, blacks out and has fractured memories, and now he can be turned on/off like a toaster. It's just sad, and the exposed brain scene with the over-the-top dialog ("Not to mention the smell") was DISGUSTING!

All I can hope is that the neurochip is removed, ASAP!

The "basement" scene with Penguin was curious (Was it a stash of pure gold bars...Or, did I miss something?)

The Jeremiah scene wasn't surprising, and I think I know where the "Bane" storyline is headed (The chip is taken out of Nygma, who is considered a failed experiment by Strange and Eduardo becomes a voluntary test subject).

Anyway, it was a decent episode, but I definitely do not like what they've done with Nygma.

What did everybody else think?

[costas22]

This will probably end up being one of the most pivotal episodes of the season. The one that set the table for the rest of it and the one that explains the flash foward we saw in the premiere with Jim, Harvey, Ed and Oswald defending the city from the military. It was indeed a bit slow, but that would be my only knock against it.

As far as Edouardo is concerned, they did a good job of introducing him, making us care about him due to his connection with Jim and then feel upset when he betrayed him. It's not easy to do all that within 40 minutes, but the writers pulled it off. It hasn't been mentioned, but I assume "Walker" is the governement woman who keeps communicating with Jim. If that's the case, I am very interested to find out why she felt that they had to bomb Haven. Maybe she wanted to send the military to clean up Gotham but needed a very good excuse to do so. And having Ed bomb Haven allowed her to do. Can't wait to see how Edouardo ends up becoming Bane.

I wonder what day of No Man's Land we are on right now. In the premiere it was day 80something and the flash forward is on day 390something. Right now we are probably somewhere in the midde?

We finally got our answers about what happened to Ed. And truth be told, it's a much better scenario than Lee's consciousness being inside him! All in all, I thought it was a good character development episode as far as Ed is concerned. The one where he acknowledged that he does bad things, but only for a particular reason (I actually thought he had killed more than 2 people, but I guess I remembered wrong). I agree that hopefully the chip will be removed soon. He's too important of a character to be anyone's puppet. On that note, was it necessary for us to see Ed's exposed brain while Strange was getting ready to operate on it? Good grief, show.

Ed's scene with Oswald was indeed one of the highlights of the episode. It wasn't like most Jim-Oswald scenes where they are friends one moment and enemies the next. There was an organic realism to it. They agree that they share a bond as friends but they also understand that they will be at odds again. And just to show how duplicitous their relationship is, Oswald tries to sneakily turn Ed over to the police a couple of minutes after he told him that he would only deal with him face to face!

Also intrigued by Oswald's vault. It looked like he had bars and statues made out of gold. What can he be up to?

The Selina-Bruce scene was raw and heartbreaking. The big question is whether this is truly Selina's true nature of whether the seed has messed up her brain. Both kids did very well in the scene, it needs to be pointed out.

Bruce's scene with Harvey gave the 2 actors a rare chance to work together. Loved the way they shared their perspectives, as well as the trademark Batman disappearing act.

No follow up to Barbara and Jim's kiss. Weird.

At least this time a Valeska didn't get resurrected again. He was just playing dead, which works just fine for me. Not sure what Jeremiah and his cronies have been digging for, but I did a read a spoiler about who these 2 people are at the very end: [SPOILER]Thomas and Martha Wayne lookalikes, who Jeremiah will use so that Bruce can relive his most traumatic moment. [/SPOILER]. Sick and very Joker-ish.

[Aries83]

As far as Edouardo is concerned, they did a good job of introducing him, making us care about him due to his connection with Jim and then feel upset when he betrayed him. It's not easy to do all that within 40 minutes, but the writers pulled it off.

I wasn't shocked by the betrayal, I just thought he would be around longer before something like it happened, but I get that they have to move the storyline along.

I assume "Walker" is the governement woman who keeps communicating with Jim. If that's the case, I am very interested to find out why she felt that they had to bomb Haven. Maybe she wanted to send the military to clean up Gotham but needed a very good excuse to do so. And having Ed bomb Haven allowed her to do.

I watch with captions on. She was actually named last week when Gordon was complaining about being given the run around.

I wonder what day of No Man's Land we are on right now. In the premiere it was day 80something and the flash forward is on day 390something. Right now we are probably somewhere in the midde?

You're probably right. I take notes while I watch (so I don't miss anything). Just shows how much of a dork I am... Day 391 was the flashforward. Then, they flashed back to day 87, which would be the start.

truth be told, it's a much better scenario than Lee's consciousness being inside him! All in all, I thought it was a good character development episode as far as Ed is concerned. The one where he acknowledged that he does bad things, but only for a particular reason . . . . He's too important of a character to be anyone's puppet. On that note, was it necessary for us to see Ed's exposed brain while Strange was getting ready to operate on it? Good grief, show.

Don't even get me started on the exposed brain! All I could think about afterward was that scene in Hannibal (which is just as disgusting), but being such an important character in Batman, it's sad to see him reduced to being a robot for the government. That's why I didn't the development. They've fumbled with the split personality too many times, but I'd take that over what he's become (at least at this point).

Ed's scene with Oswald was indeed one of the highlights of the episode. . . . They agree that they share a bond as friends but they also understand that they will be at odds again. And just to show how duplicitous their relationship is, Oswald tries to sneakily turn Ed over to the police a couple of minutes after he told him that he would only deal with him face to face!

Nygma knew it, which is why he slinked away...

Also intrigued by Oswald's vault. It looked like he had bars and statues made out of gold. What can he be up to?

I have no idea, honestly. He said something about needing a change of scenery, but: Where would he go?

The Selina-Bruce scene was raw and heartbreaking. The big question is whether this is truly Selina's true nature of whether the seed has messed up her brain. Both kids did very well in the scene, it needs to be pointed out.

I agree. She's always telling Bruce not to take on too much responsibility for the way things turn out (or how people behave or react), but I found it interesting that she has done the exact same thing: Punished herself for not taking action (and taking on the weight of that responsibility). Then, she tells Bruce they're not the same. Yeah, right! He was right to tell her it wasn't her fault. Even if she wasn't scared, what could she have possibly done to change the situation or the outcome of it?

No follow up to Barbara and Jim's kiss. Weird.

I forgot it even happened...

I did a read a spoiler about who these 2 people are at the very end: [SPOILER]Thomas and Martha Wayne lookalikes, who Jeremiah will use so that Bruce can relive his most traumatic moment. [/SPOILER]. Sick and very Joker-ish.

Is Bruce really that naive to fall for whatever his plan is with them, though?

[costas22]

I wasn't shocked by the betrayal, I just thought he would be around longer before something like it happened, but I get that they have to move the storyline along.

What surprised me was that he was a villain all along. I thought Edouardo would be a good guy at first and then turn evil when he became Bane. I actually prefer the way they did it.

I watch with captions on. She was actually named last week when Gordon was complaining about being given the run around.

Ah that makes sense! I watch it without captions, so I had no idea what her name was. First time her name was spoken was this week.

You're probably right. I take notes while I watch (so I don't miss anything). Just shows how much of a dork I am... Day 391 was the flashforward. Then, they flashed back to day 87, which would be the start.

I won't judge. I also like to keep track of details like that. I am really curious about the flash forward because the description for next week's episode seems to suggest that we have reached Day 391. But it doesn't feel like 300 days have passed since the events of the season premiere.

Don't even get me started on the exposed brain! All I could think about afterward was that scene in Hannibal (which is just as disgusting), but being such an important character in Batman, it's sad to see him reduced to being a robot for the government. That's why I didn't the development. They've fumbled with the split personality too many times, but I'd take that over what he's become (at least at this point).

Same here! At least Strange didn't feel like taking a bite.

Nygma knew it, which is why he slinked away...

Yep!

Even if she wasn't scared, what could she have possibly done to change the situation or the outcome of it?

Nothing really. And she knows it. Which is why it felt like a desperate attempt to drive Bruce away, either for his sake or because she wants to be on her own right now.

I forgot it even happened...

So did the writers apparently. Speaking of these two, apparently episode 5.09 is written by Ben and directed by Erin. Nice. It was the last episode they shot.

Is Bruce really that naive to fall for whatever his plan is with them, though?

I don't think he will believe his parents are still alive or anything like that, but seeing the dopplegangers murdered will probably cause him further trauma. Or at least that's what Jeremiah is hoping.

[Aries83]

What surprised me was that he was a villain all along. I thought Edouardo would be a good guy at first and then turn evil when he became Bane. I actually prefer the way they did it.

Yeah, it'll make accepting his transformation a lot easier (I'm guessing Jaime Murray is playing Strange's new lab assistant).

the description for next week's episode seems to suggest that we have reached Day 391. But it doesn't feel like 300 days have passed since the events of the season premiere.

I agree, and after the return, half of the season will be done...

Same here! At least Strange didn't feel like taking a bite.

Or say it was delicious...

Nothing really. And she knows it. Which is why it felt like a desperate attempt to drive Bruce away

And she knows that he'll take on the emotional responsibility she doesn't want to have for that event (and because he does that, he'll stay away from her...)

apparently episode 5.09 is written by Ben and directed by Erin. Nice. It was the last episode they shot.

I wonder if Barbara will make it to the end?

I don't think he will believe his parents are still alive or anything like that, but seeing the dopplegangers murdered will probably cause him further trauma. Or at least that's what Jeremiah is hoping.

That's so cruel. I wonder if they're going to use the same actors they cast for those roles and just say they're lookalikes? That would be cool.

[Haggard01]

With the doctor being there that Jeremiah was talking to I'd say the doc did plastic surgery on the two people to make them look like Thomas and Martha.

[costas22]

I agree, and after the return, half of the season will be done...

Indeed it will. And if they want to get to May, we may get a new episode every 2 weeks after that.

I wonder if Barbara will make it to the end?

Me too. The fact that Erin directed the 9th episode doesn't indicate anything οne way or another. My gut instinct is that one of the major characters will be killed off at some point, with Barbara and Harvey being the two likelier options. But hopefully it won't be before the series finale.

That's so cruel. I wonder if they're going to use the same actors they cast for those roles and just say they're lookalikes? That would be cool.

With the doctor being there that Jeremiah was talking to I'd say the doc did plastic surgery on the two people to make them look like Thomas and Martha.

Looking at IMDB, the "Martha" actress will indeed be the same actress who played Bruce's mother in the premiere. And I'm guessing they also got the original actor to play "Thomas".

Speaking of, don't know why but that scene where the surgeon unwraps the 2 dopplegangers after the surgery reminded me of the scene with Jack Nicholson's Joker and his plastic surgeon.

[Aries83]

Indeed it will. And if they want to get to May, we may get a new episode every 2 weeks after that.

Really? That would suck. Unless they're planning a longer break after the first episode back, which would suck just as much...

Looking at IMDB, the "Martha" actress will indeed be the same actress who played Bruce's mother in the premiere. And I'm guessing they also got the original actor to play "Thomas".

Grayson McCouch is his name, if I remember correctly (Most people know him as a soap actor). Hopefully, he got a callback too.

Speaking of, don't know why but that scene where the surgeon unwraps the 2 dopplegangers after the surgery reminded me of the scene with Jack Nicholson's Joker and his plastic surgeon.

Maybe they will both impatiently demand a mirror from Jeremiah or Harley Quinn...