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#4.19 "To Our Deaths and Beyond"

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  • #4.19 "To Our Deaths and Beyond"

    I thought this was a very good episode, at least once it got going.

    The resurrection of Ra's pretty much wrote itself, but was the most interesting plot.

    It had some funny moments, too. I laughed when he called Barbara a pathetic nightclub owner. Who knew a talking corpse could be so funnny?

    The heisting of the dagger was entertaining.

    The Lee/Riddler bank robbing plot, meanwhile, didn't interest me and just ate screen time.

    At least al Ghul is back in the fold. The "cataclysmic event" must involve Jeremiah (or Scarecrow/Hatter?).

    A big enough question to mull over until the show comes back in 2 weeks, anyway. I liked it.

    What did everybody else think?

  • #2
    When did Ra’s al Ghul become the Mummy (The Brendan Fraser version)? I’m glad that he’s back, though. Does Ra’s have some foresight into Bruce’s transformation into Batman with the cataclysmic event he’s predicting? And what’s Ra’s endgame?

    I’m not sure what they’re trying to do with the Riddler/Ed/Lee...it’s a strange love triangle. I get confused when Ed gets taken over by the Riddler and vice versa. I mean it’s obvious they’re both in love with her but who’s really in control?

    I didn’t mind that they had Gordon/Bullock take a backseat to an episode.

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    • #3
      This is the Ras I wish was in Arrow season 3. He acts and looks like Ras.

      And I always enjoy the scenes between Bruce/Selina....damn Ras for ruining their moment!

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      • #4
        I am glad that Ra's is back and I won't hold his corny zombie phase against the show. At first I thought they weren't able to get Alexander Siddig to return, so they went down the zombie route. I was pleased to see that wasn't the case. Siddig is great in the role and hopefully he will pop up again this season.

        That said, I don't know what the point of this whole storyline was. Ra's death didn't really change much on this show, other than give Barbara her own girl gang. Which could have happened without her getting the Demon's Head. His death was also supposed to have an impact on Bruce, but he just became a jerk for a handful of episodes and now is back to who he was at the start of the season. To be honest, it feels like they didn't know what to do with Ra's and they only had the actor contracted for a few episodes, so they killed him off temporarily to keep him off the show. It's nowhere near as bad as what Arrow did with Ra's, but I'd lie if I said I was thrilled with Ra's storyline this season.

        I couldn't help but chuckle when they teased Barbara and Tabitha getting killed by Ra's. This show? Killing its characters for good? Madness!

        I love the irony that Nygma wears green, but Lee is the one who thinks she's Robin Hood. Yeah, this part of the episode did nothing for me. I don't sympathize with Lee's cause (if that's even the point of this arc) and I don't consider the love story with Ed good for her or for him. I just hope they don't turn it into a love triangle now that Jim is involved. The only good thing was seeing her get arrested.

        All in all, this episode, for me, was a step down from the recent ones. And not so much because the B plot didn't appeal to me. The A plot was very promising but the execution felt off. Maybe because Gotham has played the "Who's on whose side" card one time too many. I like Barbara, Tabitha, Selina, Butch, Oswald and Nygma as characters, but I'm tired of seeing them switch sides week after week it seems. Next episode looks good though. Good to see Cameron Monaghan is back already.
        Last edited by costas22; 04-20-2018, 02:35 AM.

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        • #5
          I actually thought Ra's Al Ghul was more like the Emperor for most of the episode until he gained his full form back.

          Also, this show plays too much with the killing off of major characters only to not do it i.e. Barbara and her time reversing hand power.

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          • #6
            Regarding Barbara's power, actually I don't think she reversed time. I think she saw the future in both instances and managed to prevent it.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by darkphoenix21
              I’m not sure what they’re trying to do with the Riddler/Ed/Lee...it’s a strange love triangle.
              Same here. It was just not interesting. Also, Riddler robbing banks has already been done before so it felt repetitive.

              Originally posted by costas22
              I don't know what the point of this whole storyline was. Ra's death didn't really change much on this show, other than give Barbara her own girl gang. Which could have happened without her getting the Demon's Head. His death was also supposed to have an impact on Bruce, but he just became a jerk for a handful of episodes and now is back to who he was at the start of the season.
              Well, I didn't expect him to be brought back until the Season Finale (so he could have a looming presence going forward), but I liked what they did with it. You are right that most of the characters are back at square one, though.


              Originally posted by costas22
              I love the irony that Nygma wears green, but Lee is the one who thinks she's Robin Hood. Yeah, this part of the episode did nothing for me. I don't sympathize with Lee's cause (if that's even the point of this arc) and I don't consider the love story with Ed good for her or for him. . . . The only good thing was seeing her get arrested.
              I totally agree! I didn't buy her, "I can handle Gordon," line at the end, either... I might have more of an interest in her storyline if they actually showed her being a doctor to that part of the community again, but all she's done is swap spit with Riddler and drink alcohol every 10 seconds. The storyline for both of them STINKS to high heaven!


              Originally posted by costas22
              Maybe because Gotham has played the "Who's on whose side" card one time too many. I like Barbara, Tabitha, Selina, Butch, Oswald and Nygma as characters, but I'm tired of seeing them switch sides week after week it seems.
              Yeah, I actually laughed at Tabatha when she told Selina to pick a side. I was just thinking, "Take your own advice!"

              Originally posted by costas22
              Regarding Barbara's power, actually I don't think she reversed time. I think she saw the future in both instances and managed to prevent it.
              Yep. Part of me wished Tabatha's death stuck, though. They need to trim some fat from the cast list.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Aries83
                Well, I didn't expect him to be brought back until the Season Finale (so he could have a looming presence going forward), but I liked what they did with it. You are right that most of the characters are back at square one, though.
                I wonder what their plan is for Ra's now. He is one of those Batman villains who is at his full strength already. He can't be part of the show regularly because it would be unrealistic to have Gordon and the GCPD get the best of him. Will he just leave Gotham in peace until Bruce becomes Batman down the line? Doesn't sound a lot like him.


                Originally posted by Aries83
                I totally agree! I didn't buy her, "I can handle Gordon," line at the end, either... I might have more of an interest in her storyline if they actually showed her being a doctor to that part of the community again, but all she's done is swap spit with Riddler and drink alcohol every 10 seconds. The storyline for both of them STINKS to high heaven!
                It's for a good cause though! The storyline does stink because Ed gains little from it and the writers already converted one of Jim's love interests into a villain. Like someone in here mentioned recently, it's reaching the point where the audience assumes that dating Jim is what causes women to turn bad!

                Not saying I want to see Lee die, but I think a good way out of this storyline is for Nygma to realize she's made him weak and kill her so that he can become the definitive version of the Riddler.

                Originally posted by Aries83
                Yeah, I actually laughed at Tabatha when she told Selina to pick a side. I was just thinking, "Take your own advice!"
                Yeah, it was a meta line!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by costas22
                  Not saying I want to see Lee die, but I think a good way out of this storyline is for Nygma to realize she's made him weak and kill her so that he can become the definitive version of the Riddler.
                  If he kills her, what little progress they've made with her character will have been for nothing. Also, it would be repetitive for Nygma since she'd basically be Kringle 2.0.

                  I like the idea of her being a badass doctor who can stand up to criminals in that part of Gotham while running her clinic. There's so much potential there. I just don't see why they're intent on having her be Nygma's sidekick

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