#4.16 "One of My Three Soups"

[Aries83]

This episode was ok, but not as good as last week (obviously).

I thought the plot with Tetch (and all of his rhyming) was silly.

I was bummed that Scarecrow didn't have a lot to do.

Surprisingly, Barbara's arc interested me more. I was glad we got a flashback to her resurrection and the League of Shadows mention (and appearance) was cool.

I liked how Selina saved Bruce towards the end.

It was an ok episode. I hope next week is better and we get more of an idea of what Jerome's endgame is.

What did everybody else think?

[costas22]

I thought it was as eventful and intense as last week. But it seemed to miss something. Maybe it's because Tetch was at the forefront and I don't have a great regard for him (this version of him, anyway). He's not the worst villain of the show, but I agree that his rhyming gets tiresome after a while. I also didn't get how Jim saved the day at the end. The brainwashed people would kill themselves if anyone tried to save them, but they obeyed when they were ordered to save each other? Felt like a copout. I was annoyed to see Tetch escape at the end, but at least he won't be the central figure anymore. And judging by the promo for next week's episode, Jerome goes goes on to recruit even more of Batman's future enemies!

The Jerome scenes were more interesting this week and the stuff with his uncle really explained why he turned out like he did. This storyline was also a very harsh lesson for Bruce. In thinking that Jerome deserved to live, he allowed him to kill his uncle and nearly got killed himself. Maybe he finally realized that it's not his job to decide who lives and dies. His chemistry with Selina was once again terrific.

Loved the final scene between Harvey and Jim, which was basically Harvey teaching Jim how to bury his demons.

As for Barbara, eh, I'm not exactly thrilled with the storyline. Said it last week, but I hoped she wouldn't become Ra's. Not because she's a woman, but because they are once again taking her into a new direction and they've done that repeatedly over the last 4 years. The Sirens was a good storyline for her and I hoped the writers would settle on that. At the same time, the manner of the storyline wasn't my cup of tea either. It reeked of the kind of social commentary you find on DC shows on the CW ("men are weak, woman are great!"). I am all for empowered female characters, but I also don't need any show to beat me over the head about presenting empowered female characters. Until now, Gotham had produced a number of strong women without falling down that rabbit hole. Finally, and maybe this is just me, I think they've dropped the ball with the League of Shadow storyline. It's gone from introducing Ra's Al Ghul and his band of assassins to Barbara forming her group of badass women. Maybe DC has forbidden the show from using Ra's or his daughters (who actually would have been great additions if the show is going to take a female turn with the League of Shadows)....

P.S. Did they change Jerome's last name from Velaska to Valeska?

[AsteroidMike]

I see the Bruce-Selina relationship is still swimming around in the "will they or won't they?" direction, which has been going around for all of these seasons. My favorite part was Bruce leaning over to her like he was about to kiss her and actually letting her out. Total pump fake move that I think is perfectly in line with an adult Bruce Wayne.

As for everything else, my mind immediately saw Jerome letting everyone out as a prelude to them organizing all of Batman's Rogues Gallery.

[Aries83]

I also didn't get how Jim saved the day at the end. The brainwashed people would kill themselves if anyone tried to save them, but they obeyed when they were ordered to save each other? Felt like a copout.

I was confused too, but then I figured that Tetch lied to Gordon about whether they could be saved or not.

Loved the final scene between Harvey and Jim, which was basically Harvey teaching Jim how to bury his demons.

I also liked that Gordon apologized for judging him too. It really felt like they settled their beef, which is good.

As for Barbara, eh, I'm not exactly thrilled with the storyline. Said it last week, but I hoped she wouldn't become Ra's. Not because she's a woman, but because they are once again taking her into a new direction and they've done that repeatedly over the last 4 years. The Sirens was a good storyline for her and I hoped the writers would settle on that. At the same time, the manner of the storyline wasn't my cup of tea either. It reeked of the kind of social commentary you find on DC shows on the CW ("men are weak, woman are great!"). I am all for empowered female characters, but I also don't need any show to beat me over the head about presenting empowered female characters. Until now, Gotham had produced a number of strong women without falling down that rabbit hole. Finally, and maybe this is just me, I think they've dropped the ball with the League of Shadow storyline. It's gone from introducing Ra's Al Ghul and his band of assassins to Barbara forming her group of badass women. Maybe DC has forbidden the show from using Ra's or his daughters (who actually would have been great additions if the show is going to take a female turn with the League of Shadows)....

Somehow, I feel like we haven't seen the last of Ra's al Ghul yet. You don't just give somebody that much power without expecting something in return. I'm sure the other shoe will drop.

The storyline Barbara has been given is exactly what I thought they'd give Fish Mooeney if she had been resurrected with the Lazarus water...

P.S. Did they change Jerome's last name from Velaska to Valeska?

I was wondering about that too. I'm pretty sure everybody pronounced it as, "Vuh-lass-kuh," in previous seasons, but they changed it slightly in this episode...

My favorite part was Bruce leaning over to her like he was about to kiss her and actually letting her out. Total pump fake move that I think is perfectly in line with an adult Bruce Wayne.

I thought it was cute too. Then, I was confused as to when Bruce learned how to drive?...

[costas22]

I was confused too, but then I figured that Tetch lied to Gordon about whether they could be saved or not.

Maybe I'll understand it better after I rewatch it. Tetch must have been saying the truth when he said that they would jump if someone tried to save them, because we saw it happen on one of the roofs. It's just that the technicality that Gordon used felt fishy.

Somehow, I feel like we haven't seen the last of Ra's al Ghul yet. You don't just give somebody that much power without expecting something in return. I'm sure the other shoe will drop.

The storyline Barbara has been given is exactly what I thought they'd give Fish Mooeney if she had been resurrected with the Lazarus water...

I definitely could see the writers using Fish for that storyline! I think one of the reasons why Barbara has been given more of an alpha female role this season is because Jada wasn't going to return for any more episodes.

I am a bit sceptical about Ra's at the moment. I think he might pop up in Barbara's visions or what not, but he might be dead for good. This episode was meant to imply that his endgame after saving Barbara was to make her his successor as the Demon's Head. And while we interpreted their interaction in jail (when he touched her) as Ra's passing his essence onto Barbara, maybe he just wanted to give her the necessary tool to command the League. Hope I'm wrong because I liked this version of Ra's.

I was wondering about that too. I'm pretty sure everybody pronounced it as, "Vuh-lass-kuh," in previous seasons, but they changed it slightly in this episode...

I searched the internet a bit and there doesn't seem to be any confusion. He's written as Jerome Valeska. But I could have sworn that Gordon pronounced his name the way you wrote it in past episodes. Unless it's just Gordon's accent that's confusing. Ok, I'll stop nitpicking now!

[Aries83]

I definitely could see the writers using Fish for that storyline! I think one of the reasons why Barbara has been given more of an alpha female role this season is because Jada wasn't going to return for any more episodes.

I'm still bummed that Fish wasn't resurrected with the Lazarus water, mainly because of all the trouble they went through to bring her back. It would've been a great way to tie her to established Batman history given that she was an original character created for the show...

Speaking of the water, are we really supposed to believe that Wayne Enterprises only procured the small amount we saw Ivy heist (that Selina later destroyed)? If you find a mysterious substance with life-restoring properties, you keep a backup supply somewhere else or try to synthesize more!

I think he might pop up in Barbara's visions or what not, but he might be dead for good. . . . Hope I'm wrong because I liked this version of Ra's.

I'd like to know what happened to his corpse. I remember it turning to ash/dust after Bruce killed him, but maybe he found a way to come back from even that? A ritual that would restore his body completely, for example.

I searched the internet a bit and there doesn't seem to be any confusion. He's written as Jerome Valeska. But I could have sworn that Gordon pronounced his name the way you wrote it in past episodes. Unless it's just Gordon's accent that's confusing. Ok, I'll stop nitpicking now!

Well, I don't think you're nitpicking at all. Every time someone said, "Vuh-less-kuh," instead of "Vuh-lass-kuh," it distracted me...

[costas22]

Speaking of the water, are we really supposed to believe that Wayne Enterprises only procured the small amount we saw Ivy heist (that Selina later destroyed)? If you find a mysterious substance with life-restoring properties, you keep a backup supply somewhere else or try to synthesize more!

That also rubbed me the wrong way when Ivy stole the bottle from Lucius. I don't remember 4.05 too well, but after Bruce killed Ra's, I assume GCPD raided his base of operations and found the entire pit. Did the policemen drink it?

Purely fan speculation but maybe Sofia stole most of the Lazarus Water and drank some herself? It would explain how she survived that gunshot to the head.

I'd like to know what happened to his corpse. I remember it turning to ash/dust after Bruce killed him, but maybe he found a way to come back from even that? A ritual that would restore his body completely, for example.

Yeah, he became a skeleton, I think. After that, the GCPD arrived on the scene. I guess they could explain that someone stole the body and threw it in the Lazarus Pit, but again, that's fan speculation. I hope he's alive though. Another reason being that I don't like the fact that Bruce has a murder on his conscience.