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Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "The Trial of the Flash?"

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  • #16
    As DJ stated, they all know the guy as the guy Amunet was hired to kidnap. He was invited to the party and they have his picture with Marlize, which is why they would've called him to testify. A good defense attorney would've grilled him on the stand about their affair.

    And I still think you're missing my point. They didn't try anything. They didn't present any evidence. They didn't show the team try.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by DJ Doena
      They rescued new DeVoe from Amunet in the previous episode. Amunet wanted to sell him and Caitlin knows this. Then the guy returns and is magically new DeVoe? Even Star Labs' dumbest can make that connection.
      You're right, I was reaching a bit, nvm.
      Last edited by AsteroidMike; 01-20-2018, 02:08 PM.

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      • #18
        Also who actually called the police that made them breach the door of a colleague? Must have been one hell of a 911 call.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by DJ Doena
          Also who actually called the police that made them breach the door of a colleague? Must have been one hell of a 911 call.
          Probably Marlize, that would make the most sense. Either that or someone on the street who assumed it was Barry dragging a body into his room.

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          • #20
            Speaking of DeVoe, what's happening with those other metas that were on the bus earlier in the season? The 12 metas that they've been trying to keep track up.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
              As DJ stated, they all know the guy as the guy Amunet was hired to kidnap. He was invited to the party and they have his picture with Marlize, which is why they would've called him to testify. A good defense attorney would've grilled him on the stand about their affair.

              And I still think you're missing my point. They didn't try anything. They didn't present any evidence. They didn't show the team try.
              Not only didn't they try, Barry actively prevented them from attempting to try at times. Barry's strategy just seems to be, "We're the good guys, it HAS to work out for us in the end." It's insane. At the end of the day, even if they prove DeVoe isn't dead, it's a metahuman plot, etc; you're still left with all the questions about Barry that won't be answered. Barry comes off as a total Sociopath in his trial, and even if they get the evidence he didn't kill DeVoe, he's still going to look like a crazed nut job.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by TheSecretVampire
                Meanwhile, Wally West wasn't seen or mentioned at all...lol It's sad how badly they have butchered Wally's character ever since he came out of the Speed Force prison, late last season. At this point, they mind as well just ship him off to Legends of Tomorrow or something because it just feels like he's a lost cause in Central City at this point.
                Apparently he's going to Legends, so that could be why.
                Originally posted by moviefan2k4
                I was surprised by how he winds up in what was presumably Henry's first cell, since we see him in a different one earlier in the series. An upcoming episode is supposed to introduce someone with a past connection to Henry, so that will be cool. I also liked how they referenced Barry's craziness from the season opener...but they still haven't addressed why he was out of it to begin with. The Speed Force's manifestation of Nora specifically said "Barry's not going to hell" in last year's finale...so why was our hero mentally unstable when they pulled him out?
                They hypothesized in the premiere that it was because he saw his life play out over and over. That's probably why,
                Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
                Barry's trial came across as weak fan fiction, at best. There was almost no presentation of evidence. Barry's a CSI for goodness' sake. You're going to tell me, on trial for his life, he wouldn't have some idea about how to process the crime scene to prove it was a setup? No one asked Barry for his alibi. There was almost no mention of motive. They know DeVoe and his wife were in cahoots with Katee Sackhoff's character, but they made no attempt to investigate that connection, trace phone records, or even have Iris wear a wire when talking to the wife. Not to mention the fact that their entire defense was basically "he's a sweet guy". That's not how the law works.
                Yes. Barry's fingerprints were found on Devoe's body and his DNA was found on Barry. There's no where else to go there. They could have asked many questions. But Barry and the audience knows that Barry can't come up with a way to explain without explaining he's the Flash and Barry doesn't want to do that.

                He doesn't have one. He was there and we have the Flash problem. No one can explain where Barry was at the time without lying or saying he's the Flash.

                True enough about the motive.

                They don't know about Devoe's being in cahoots with Amunet or they haven't gotten there yet or haven't mentioned it. We're kinda in the dark about their knowledge in that area admittedly. But we never saw them learn Amunet turned Dominic over to Marlize and Clifford.

                Even if they could plan Iris confronting Marlize, I don't think she said anything that would contradict her statements really. And I've some people say that it might not be admissible in court if she had.

                When Barry won't tell the truth or li, there's not a lot of defense.
                And what's with the judge, who looked about 100, saying how in all his years as a judge, he's never seen such a horrible act or some such nonsense? Are you kidding me? Has that judge been sitting in traffic court? Just a day or two ago, I was listening to a news report about a couple who had 13 emaciated children chained up in their house. Even if Barry did kill DeVoe, he was investigating a series of crimes. A police officer killing someone he thinks is guilty of horrible crimes, but can't prove it, is not some heinous betrayal of all that is good and decent. At its absolute worst, it's vigilantism that went too far.
                I think the judge was talking about the crime itself entirely, but about Barry's apathy to the situation.
                Originally posted by nate-dog1701d
                I'm also uncertain why Cisco couldn't just portal Kryptonite Man somewhere. They said something about him detonating while going through the portal, which would be disastrous, but it's apparently okay to send all the energy through anyway. Of course, I don't remember Cisco ever actually learning to create portals. It just seemed like something he was suddenly good at (after Flashpoint, maybe). Thus, I also don't recall ever learning anything about the nature of these portals.
                I thought it would cause fallout on both sides. Him learning to create portals was Versus Zoom. He tried it in Killer Frost as well.
                I'm so thrilled Barry learned a new power so he could have a dramatic conversation with Iris in the middle of the trial.
                I saw someone say it's like Barry phasing a train full of people through rocks. I kinda agree.
                I applaud Barry's willingness to be subject to the law, but my mind kept drifting back to him not leaving the scene of the crime in the first place. It might have helped his alibi if he hadn't been found standing over the dead body. I'm sure DeVoe had some contingency, but still.
                I think you can put that down with Barry's desire to subject himself to the legal situation.
                Speaking of DeVoe, I already miss the old actor. The new guy doesn't hold a candle.
                I've heard he'll return. But I'm not certain.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Dagenspear
                  He doesn't have one. He was there and we have the Flash problem. No one can explain where Barry was at the time without lying or saying he's the Flash.
                  He wasn't there when the body was dumped, so that's not true. He could have said that he came home and found the body there. He could also say that he was at STAR Labs or at the party. He doesn't have to say he is the Flash.

                  They don't know about Devoe's being in cahoots with Amunet or they haven't gotten there yet or haven't mentioned it. We're kinda in the dark about their knowledge in that area admittedly. But we never saw them learn Amunet turned Dominic over to Marlize and Clifford.
                  I disagree. The entire team knows who Dominic is. The entire team knows Amunet was hired to kidnap Dominic by someone for some reason. And now Dominic's body has been possessed by DeVoe. I think it's very clear that the team knows who hired Amunet.

                  Even if they could plan Iris confronting Marlize, I don't think she said anything that would contradict her statements really. And I've some people say that it might not be admissible in court if she had.
                  Again, my point has less to do with it working and more to do with them trying to do something that might be helpful. At the very least, they might've been able to use something she said to impeach her testimony on cross.

                  As I said before, there are so many things they could've looked at here and didn't.

                  1: DeVoe was stabbed by the knife that was a wedding gift from DeVoe himself. If DeVoe only knew Barry because he was being harassed, why is he sending Barry a wedding present?

                  2: Regarding potential fingerprints on the knife, of course Barry's are going to be on the knife. It's his knife. Did they find any blood on Barry's hands? On his clothes?

                  3: A self-inflicted knife wound usually comes in at a different angle than if you're being stabbed. Did anyone check that? Because in order to get that right, isn't it probable that someone else did the stabbing? And if there was a second person in the apartment, it was likely either Dominic or Marlize. Shouldn't they be searching the apartment for signs of those two? Shouldn't they be interviewing other people in the building to see if they recognize Marlize or Dominic?

                  4: How did Barry even get DeVoe to his apartment to kill him? DeVoe filed a restraining order. Did DeVoe go to Barry's home willingly? If he did, is it likely that a man confined to a wheelchair went by himself to confront his stalker? If he didn't go willingly, it means Barry kidnapped DeVoe. How did he do that? Where did he do that? That's a second crime scene. It's also not easy to kidnap someone who is dependent on other people for transportation.

                  I'm not saying the evidence is necessarily there. What I'm saying is that none of these questions are even asked. There's no investigation. There's no attempt at anything even resembling a real investigation and trial. More importantly, if they tried all of these things and still came up empty, it would even help make the villain look more formidable because it would show how he planned for every contingency. Instead, all we got was "well, I guess they got me".

                  Bad writing. Terrible, horrible, no good, really bad writing.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
                    And I still think you're missing my point. They didn't try anything. They didn't present any evidence. They didn't show the team try.
                    My guess is they had all just watched The Empire Strikes Back and Yoda left a big impression on them.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
                      1: DeVoe was stabbed by the knife that was a wedding gift from DeVoe himself. If DeVoe only knew Barry because he was being harassed, why is he sending Barry a wedding present?

                      2: Regarding potential fingerprints on the knife, of course Barry's are going to be on the knife. It's his knife. Did they find any blood on Barry's hands? On his clothes?

                      3: A self-inflicted knife wound usually comes in at a different angle than if you're being stabbed. Did anyone check that? Because in order to get that right, isn't it probable that someone else did the stabbing? And if there was a second person in the apartment, it was likely either Dominic or Marlize. Shouldn't they be searching the apartment for signs of those two? Shouldn't they be interviewing other people in the building to see if they recognize Marlize or Dominic?

                      4: How did Barry even get DeVoe to his apartment to kill him? DeVoe filed a restraining order. Did DeVoe go to Barry's home willingly? If he did, is it likely that a man confined to a wheelchair went by himself to confront his stalker? If he didn't go willingly, it means Barry kidnapped DeVoe. How did he do that? Where did he do that? That's a second crime scene. It's also not easy to kidnap someone who is dependent on other people for transportation.
                      1. I thought about that when the prosecutor made the case that Barry perverted a good-natured gift by using it for murder. Why send a gift? And why send a knife of all things?

                      2. Barry said something in questioning about how they probably found his DNA on DeVoe and DeVoe's DNA on him. I was curious about the latter, unless perhaps that had been accomplished during the abduction.

                      3. Yeah, and Joe was even ready to plant carpet fibers on Marlize's shoes.

                      4. And was the wheelchair even in the apartment? I don't remember seeing it. So Barry supposedly dragged the man up several flights of stairs?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by nate-dog1701d
                        4. And was the wheelchair even in the apartment? I don't remember seeing it. So Barry supposedly dragged the man up several flights of stairs?
                        Actually it was there. I deliberately checked this out because I was wondering about that, too. And while it is hardly visible, you can see the wheel in a few select frames.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
                          He wasn't there when the body was dumped, so that's not true. He could have said that he came home and found the body there. He could also say that he was at STAR Labs or at the party. He doesn't have to say he is the Flash.
                          They don't know when the body was dumped. The body was there when Barry was. He can't use a defense in that. If they ask him or anyone when he was at the party, they'd have to either lie and say he was there earlier because then they'd ask how he got to his apartment so fast.
                          I disagree. The entire team knows who Dominic is. The entire team knows Amunet was hired to kidnap Dominic by someone for some reason. And now Dominic's body has been possessed by DeVoe. I think it's very clear that the team knows who hired Amunet.
                          The fact that you can disagree shows that we don't have a definitive answer on the issue. The facts as we know them are that we didn't see them come to the understanding that Amunet is tied Devoe.
                          Again, my point has less to do with it working and more to do with them trying to do something that might be helpful. At the very least, they might've been able to use something she said to impeach her testimony on cross.

                          As I said before, there are so many things they could've looked at here and didn't.
                          I can agree that they should have emphasized other potential defenses and have them dismantled by Devoe have the bases covered. But they didn't need to do it necessarily.
                          1: DeVoe was stabbed by the knife that was a wedding gift from DeVoe himself. If DeVoe only knew Barry because he was being harassed, why is he sending Barry a wedding present?
                          They say that there's no card on the package with the knife.
                          2: Regarding potential fingerprints on the knife, of course Barry's are going to be on the knife. It's his knife. Did they find any blood on Barry's hands? On his clothes?
                          They said that Barry had Devoe's DNA under his fingernails. But you don't need to have someone's blood on you to stab someone. He's a man in a wheelchair. It's not like there's be enough struggle to cause that.
                          3: A self-inflicted knife wound usually comes in at a different angle than if you're being stabbed. Did anyone check that? Because in order to get that right, isn't it probable that someone else did the stabbing? And if there was a second person in the apartment, it was likely either Dominic or Marlize. Shouldn't they be searching the apartment for signs of those two? Shouldn't they be interviewing other people in the building to see if they recognize Marlize or Dominic?
                          It wouldn't be self-inflicted. Devoe jumped into Dominic's body. Devoe can teleport. It's not out of the question to say that's how they got in the apartment, considering there didn't seem to be a forced entry.
                          4: How did Barry even get DeVoe to his apartment to kill him? DeVoe filed a restraining order. Did DeVoe go to Barry's home willingly? If he did, is it likely that a man confined to a wheelchair went by himself to confront his stalker? If he didn't go willingly, it means Barry kidnapped DeVoe. How did he do that? Where did he do that? That's a second crime scene. It's also not easy to kidnap someone who is dependent on other people for transportation.
                          Marlize said that Devoe went to Barry to persuade him to stop harassing him.
                          I'm not saying the evidence is necessarily there. What I'm saying is that none of these questions are even asked. There's no investigation. There's no attempt at anything even resembling a real investigation and trial. More importantly, if they tried all of these things and still came up empty, it would even help make the villain look more formidable because it would show how he planned for every contingency. Instead, all we got was "well, I guess they got me".

                          Bad writing. Terrible, horrible, no good, really bad writing.
                          Some of the things you took issue with were explained. The show doesn't have the problem with some of these things.

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