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  1. #1
    Board Master Aries83's Avatar
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    #4.11 "Queen Takes Knight" - FALL FINALE

    I thought the episode was pretty good and set the stage for spring.

    My favorite bits were
    • Gordon's speech (and the applause he received later) inside the station.
    • The conforntation between Bruce/Alfred. I felt so bad for Alfred, especially at the end
    • and the Pyg reveal and Sofia's revenge. I knew Mario wouldn't be forgotten.


    The only plots I didn't care for involved Nygma and Grundy. Nygma's scene felt shoehorned in, especially after that somewhat emotional scene between Bruce/Alfred. So predictable that he has feelings for Lee after she called him a "friend."

    At least Butch made his return at the end of the hour, as did Jerome.

    He and Penguin should be entertaining to watch!

    I really liked how everything culminated during the last few minutes, and the trailer for the rest of the season looked really good!

    What did everybody else think of the Fall Finale?

  2. #2
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    It was certainly action packed and eventful! As we would expect from a fall finale. That said, some stuff made me scratch my head and wonder where the season is headed.

    If this episode accomplished one thing, is that it established Sofia as the new villain of the show. I mean, any self respecting baddie has to off their old man at some point! So while it was sad to see Carmine die (the funeral was beautiful, btw), it was a needed plot development to give Sofia the identity she was sorely lacking until 2 episodes ago. What I had a hard time stomaching was Jim doing her bidding after the funeral and going after Penguin. Why? Because Harvey told him to? Jim should have been more thorough about this stuff than naturally assuming Penguin killed Carmine. Mind you, Penguin needed to be put behind bars anyway, but I wish it didn't look like Jim was playing into Sofia's hands so easily. So he helps her get control of Gotham and then she turns the tables on him and hits him with the ultimatum. All things considered, Jim did the right thing by choosing a lie over more chaos for Gotham (it will come back to haunt him, but that's another story). It was a trademark morally grey decision that Jim Gordon is known for making. Just like most of the decisions he's made this season.

    I agree with Aries that the GCPD scene where everyone was rallying behind Gordon was one of the best moments of the episode. It was nice to see how far Jim had come. And of course all this won't last...

    On a final Falcone note, I loved the foresight of Carmine's last words to Gordon ("You have no idea what you brought to your city"). At the time it didn't feel like he was talking about his daughter, but by the end of the episode that proved to be the case.

    Zsasz betraying Penguin was kind of sad. And here I thought he was a loyal hired gun.

    Barbs and Selina were just there, but at least we got to see a vicious side of Tabitha again. Sometimes we tend to forget she's supposed to be Tigress. If only she was more patiend with Grundy instead of leaving him just when he remembered!

    I was wrong about the Pyg turning out to be Jerome. Jerome still has his own face on and his pending relationship with Penguin makes me anxious to see the new episodes!

    Ed falling in love with Lee is just...ugh.

    Lastly, the Bruce/Alfred scenes were hit and miss. I appreciate the change in dynamic and how this rift is hard on both guys, but they should be careful with how Bruce is portrayed. Because he's bordering on becoming an unlikeable prick.

  3. #3
    Board Master Aries83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    If this episode accomplished one thing, is that it established Sofia as the new villain of the show. I mean, any self respecting baddie has to off their old man at some point! So while it was sad to see Carmine die (the funeral was beautiful, btw), it was a needed plot development to give Sofia the identity she was sorely lacking until 2 episodes ago. What I had a hard time stomaching was Jim doing her bidding after the funeral and going after Penguin. Why? Because Harvey told him to? Jim should have been more thorough about this stuff than naturally assuming Penguin killed Carmine. Mind you, Penguin needed to be put behind bars anyway, but I wish it didn't look like Jim was playing into Sofia's hands so easily. So he helps her get control of Gotham and then she turns the tables on him and hits him with the ultimatum. All things considered, Jim did the right thing by choosing a lie over more chaos for Gotham (it will come back to haunt him, but that's another story).
    I agree. Another thing that irritated me was the fact that Sofia seemed so sure the cops would turn their backs on Gordon if they found out his decisions got others killed. Anybody working in the GCPD knows the stakes of the job. Why would they care what led to what?

    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    I agree with Aries that the GCPD scene where everyone was rallying behind Gordon was one of the best moments of the episode. It was nice to see how far Jim had come. And of course all this won't last...
    I would even say it was one of the best moments of the series so far

    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    I loved the foresight of Carmine's last words to Gordon ("You have no idea what you brought to your city"). At the time it didn't feel like he was talking about his daughter, but by the end of the episode that proved to be the case.
    It was almost like he knew the order for him to be killed was coming. I didn't expect him to be shot, because I thought for sure Sofia poisoned herself (to death, possibly) when she pricked the rose bush (since she got confirmation that her father didn't love her).

    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    Zsasz betraying Penguin was kind of sad. And here I thought he was a loyal hired gun.
    Well, I'm sure he'll be on Penguin's side to kill her when he learns she still has the hots for Gordon

    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    I was wrong about the Pyg turning out to be Jerome. Jerome still has his own face on and his pending relationship with Penguin makes me anxious to see the new episodes!
    Yeah, I thought he was going to rip the mask off (since they hinted he was wearing some type of mask), but it was good seeing Michael Cerveris on TV again while it lasted.

    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    Ed falling in love with Lee is just...ugh.
    Yeah, especially if it all it takes is telling him you're his friend. It also looked like Sofia was gunning for Lee in the trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    the Bruce/Alfred scenes were hit and miss. I appreciate the change in dynamic and how this rift is hard on both guys, but they should be careful with how Bruce is portrayed. Because he's bordering on becoming an unlikeable prick.
    I agree. I felt so bad for Alfred in both scenes. Then again, I could've sworn Bruce fired Alfred once already? But, yeah: I'm tired of Angry Bruce. Not sure how I feel about the new Poison Ivy having some kind of relationship with him either?
    Last edited by Aries83; 12-08-2017 at 03:15 PM.

  4. #4
    Posting Pro Aurora Moon's Avatar
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    I was saying "Finally!!" when Sofia finally stepped up and revealed herself to Jim. I just wish it hadn't taken so long.

  5. #5
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aries83 View Post
    I agree. Another thing that irritated me was the fact that Sofia seemed so sure the cops would turn their backs on Gordon if they found out his decisions got others killed. Anybody working in the GCPD knows the stakes of the job. Why would they care what led to what?
    I guess it's because of what she said. With Pax Penguina, no police officers lost their lives. And it's not just the fact that Gordon pursued Penguin and got colleagues of his killed. It's how he went about it: He got in bed (literally ) with a mobster's daughter and became Captain because of it.

    Gordon's intentions deep down were noble and he was right to be opposed to Pax Penguina and the way it shackled the GCPD. But the way Sofia manipulated him into doing things could cause him to lose the trust of his police officers, I feel. If Harvey is pertrubed by what Jim might have done, imagine how the rest of them will feel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries83 View Post
    I would even say it was one of the best moments of the series so far
    The first scene where they stand by his side and defy Penguin truly was one of Gotham's highlights. The scene where they clap for him is also a feel good moment, but it's kind of overshadowed by the deal Jim makes with Sofia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries83 View Post
    It was almost like he knew the order for him to be killed was coming.
    True. In hindsight, this scene has a lot of double meaning. Carmine was probably experienced enough to suspect that his daughter could order the hit on him and that's why it seemed like he was saying goodbye during that scene.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries83 View Post
    Well, I'm sure he'll be on Penguin's side to kill her when he learns she still has the hots for Gordon
    I'm sure he will be. Victor always knows where his bread is buttered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries83 View Post
    Yeah, especially if it all it takes is telling him you're his friend. It also looked like Sofia was gunning for Lee in the trailer...
    And Lee tells her in distress: "He'll be coming for you, b*itch". I assume she's referring to Gordon. Yep. We are steadily headed back there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries83 View Post
    I agree. I felt so bad for Alfred in both scenes. Then again, I could've sworn Bruce fired Alfred once already? But, yeah: I'm tired of Angry Bruce. Not sure how I feel about the new Poison Ivy having some kind of relationship with him either?
    Yeah, seeing Ivy kiss an underage Bruce in the promo was kind of uncomfortable. Hopefully she's just teasing him. At the same time, this must have been David Mazouz's best day on set.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    And Lee tells her in distress: "He'll be coming for you, b*itch". I assume she's referring to Gordon. Yep. We are steadily headed back there.

    Yeah, seeing Ivy kiss an underage Bruce in the promo was kind of uncomfortable. Hopefully she's just teasing him. At the same time, this must have been David Mazouz's best day on set.
    I actually went through and watched it on subtitles and checked it a few times but I'd say it's actually Lee telling Sofia she will becoming for her and not a "He."


    If it is I can't say I blame him.

  7. #7
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    I actually went through and watched it on subtitles and checked it a few times but I'd say it's actually Lee telling Sofia she will becoming for her and not a "He."
    Yeah, you're right. The captions say "I'll be coming for you". To be honest, it still sounds like she says "He'll be coming for you" to me. We'll see. If she does say "He", she might also be referring to Grundy...

  8. #8
    New In Town
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    Ed falls in love with Lee is somewhat to watch the show for. With this new twist let see what other new villains does Gotham has saved for us.

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