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Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "Don't Run"?

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  • Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "Don't Run"?

    What did you think of the midseason finale?
    5
    10 - Flash-tastic!
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    1
    9 - Like Caitlin Snow, nothing's better
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    8 - Vibe me to January, I need to know what happens!
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    7 - A Christmas gift from Gypsy
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    6 - What a twist!
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    5 - Like Iris, I want it both ways
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    1
    4 - My patience is stretched thinner than Dibny
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    3 - The writers could use a Brainstorm
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    2 - A shard of metal to the brain stem
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    1 - I'm gonna run... away, that is
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  • #2
    I gave the episode an 8/10, also liked the description of the voting options LOL

    Definitely liked the vibe of the episode and it was a good, if incredibly unexpected mid-season finale. The biggest thing being the ending of the episode, which was DeVoe framing Barry for his "murder" by uploading his mind into Dominic (the guy Caitlin was working with most of the episode) and then dumping DeVoe's old, deceased body into his apartment, stab wounds and all. And then the police show up and arrest Barry. Now I've read comments that suggest Barry was stupid for just staring at a corpse and not either getting the hell out of there or ditching the body and cleaning the scene up at super speed, since he can do that. The thing is, DeVoe already probably tipped off the police beforehand and he still likely has Barry's DNA stored somewhere, seeing as how he's thought WAY ahead of the heroes.

    Speaking of DeVoe, even though he and Marlize are the villains I have to admire the fact that they actually seem like a nice husband and wife couple, particularly in their backstory where they seemed likable enough. With that in mind, I noticed at times in the episode that the camera would pan to Marlize when Barry or DeVoe were saying something and judging from her expressions it seems like she's a bit unnerved and unhappy with what is going on. To me, it sounds like they're setting us up for her having a change of heart by the end.

    Ralph came back for the episode, apparently absent from the crossover for some shenanigans, sort of. Wally's absent again being "in Cambodia" according to Joe, which sucks because he would've been extremely helpful for this episode. I like how the episode starts with Iris and Barry opening their wedding presents and Iris mentions the gift they got from Olicity wasn't on the registry but then again neither was them getting married at their own wedding, so I guess neither of them really were okay with Oliver and Felicity tying the knot last week next to them and Barry and Iris were just being courteous.

    Also, a real funny part was Gypsy's "gift" to Cisco at the end of the episode. Lucky bastard.

    All in all, I thought it was a good cliffhanger and I can't wait to see how or if Barry gets out of this. Always seems like the Allens are getting framed for murder.

    Comment


    • #3
      I do think that Barry was stupid for just standing there, etc. But at the same time I can readily forgive it because it's clearly one of those instances where he had to hold the idiot ball to advance the plot.

      It's when the stupidity wasn't needed for a certain plot.... that's when it becomes unforgivable. If you know what I mean. like that infamous scene during that gorilla city episode where Barry had no idea what to do and needed everyone watching him to tell him what to do. *rolls eyes*

      Comment


      • #4
        Random thoughts, in no particular order:

        - I liked the back and forth between Dibny and Cisco. Those two are hilarious together.

        - The twist ending was solid. I should have seen it coming, but I didn't.

        - I know that they are trying to sell us on Iris being team leader, but I still can't help but wonder......... why? What makes her the most qualified to do that? Because it feels a lot like she's leader by default because she doesn't have any other attributes that make her even semi-useful to the team. And "being otherwise useless" shouldn't be why you're the team leader.

        - It was classy of Wells to talk to confront Iris privately.

        - I'm a little confused as to the timeline of the DeVoe to Brainstorm transformation. After Caitlin and that dude escaped Amunet, did Amunet grab him again? Or was he somehow DeVoe the whole time, with there basically being two of him running around for a while?

        - What was the purpose of capturing Barry just to let him go? Theoretically, all he needed to frame Barry was to plant the knife, get him and Iris out of the apartment, and to switch places with Brainstorm. So, why capture Barry at all? Did I miss something? Did he plant something on Barry?

        - I'm wondering what the end game is for DeVoe. What does he want?

        I gave it a 7, not necessarily for being great, but because it had my attention most of the way and I liked the ending.

        Comment


        • #5
          From how I saw it after caitlyn and brianstorm got freed they captured him again and did the trade.
          And it is possible that DeVoe captured Barry so that Barry could not assist them in freeing Caitlyn what gave Caitlyn and amunet enough time to save the life of Brianstorm and then letting the ''timeline'' happen as he (DeVoe) wants it to happen (so that he could be at the christmas party for whatever reason and he could time Barry to be at his own appartment then.
          What the endgame will be I am also not sure about, but imo that does make it a bit more exciting (and also scary because it means they can still mess it up) because we don't know yet which way it will go in the end (except that we know it will go towards timetravel. It is always timetravel....)

          I indeed really did enjoy the twist, and that they gave Dibny some solid character building this episode without it being to much out there. It all felt believable.

          Wasn't it said that when barry went in the speedforce Iris took the role of leader upon her and keep ''team flash'' going? So I assume that she just kept that role even when he returned because nobody said it shouldn't be that way. Like when you have a group project and nobody wants to be leader at first, so someone takes that role on himself and then you find out he isn't great and someone else is better but you don't want to put him off because that means he might just leave.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Backward Galaxy

            - I know that they are trying to sell us on Iris being team leader, but I still can't help but wonder......... why? What makes her the most qualified to do that? Because it feels a lot like she's leader by default because she doesn't have any other attributes that make her even semi-useful to the team. And "being otherwise useless" shouldn't be why you're the team leader.
            I'm glad this was brought up. They are trying ... so hard ... to sell us on Iris being a natural leader for the team. I'm just not there yet, even though some pragmatic Wells coaching for her was apt.

            S4, they've officially "Felicity'd" Iris West.

            I'm setting aside the melodramatic angles for now. Felicity began as a supporting character with wafer thin character development. Once she got catapulted into the lead character slot, they realized they had little material re: Felicity and basically had to build her up quickly so that her character development matched her newfound status, with middling results. No independent career, no social life? Let it all revolve around Oliver and Team Arrow, Team Flash, etc.

            Iris and her must have grown pretty tight in OffscreenVille, b/c this alleged bond largely grew offscreen.

            As for Iris, she was a lead character from the start and it seemed she had the pieces in place to legitimize that status. She had her own career and we can only guess she was supposed to have an arc that would parallel Barry's own journey. Whereas Felicity was initially placed in a lead spot without the lead character development to back it up, taking years to get to the point where her development was adequate enough for her lead status -- Iris was a lead from the start, and they failed spectacularly in forging the sort of character development someone of her status should have had.

            They've all but given up on her reporting career or any sense of Iris' life outside of Barry's orbit and STARLabs, so they've Felicity'd her and made her run point for Team Flash without any prior inclination to do so pre-S4. Add to that her ability to encourage Barry's superhero-ing and curing him of his Speed Force insanity through only the power of her love and faith in him ... and we've got another lead character (and significant other, no surprises here) found wanting in the development department.

            It's appropriate that Caitlin pointed out that she and Iris aren't that close after 3 years, as this is merely the tip of the iceberg re: Iris' development on The Flash. That's the Berlantiverse way -- just have people lionize her and talk about how amazing and skilled and what a great friend she is (or in Caitlin's case, will be.) etc., and hope the fans will buy it, in time.

            Maybe another season (or two...three...) of Iris being the team's shot-caller might change this perception -- but what a waste of 3+ years for Iris that could have been more productive for her character.

            On a positive note, Wells did light a fire under Iris' butt to get the job done and the ep was actually decent. Well played blindside at the end too.

            Comment


            • #7
              ^^^^^ @President Luthor's post.

              I've always said that they should had just made her a TV reporter from the start. Have her be a newbie reporter if need be, but this way she would had something to fall back on and would had quickly given her a believable reason to be where the action is. Plus, they could use the scene where she's on a TV screen reporting the news to show us that she was still part of things going on even if she wasn't there in person. Lead us her presence without coming up with convoluted reasons for why she had to be there in that room at that very moment.

              I honestly feel this would had been a easier way to give her character some history there without having to show us her actual workplace. After all, this is a show about the Flash, so we didn't need to know every minutia of Iris West's workplace. They tried to play with that earlier on but it didn't work out too well... for obvious reasons. They should only show us the news workplace if it actually has any relevance to the main or side plots. and not because the characters wanted to have a very short conversation in person, instead of talking over the phone like normal people would've done.

              Hell, they could even play up the fact that Iris West wasn't that good at getting close to co-workers and things like that... That she was the kind who focused on getting the job done instead of allowing herself to socialize while on the job. It would be a interesting trait for her to have, which would allow for the excuse that despite the fact that Flash had up to 4 seasons so far under it's belt, that Iris wasn't the type to overly socialize with other people. Maybe suggest that she was a closet introvert at heart, despite her very public job.

              Comment


              • #8
                It was a good episode. I like how Barry was outsmarted by a man smarter than him. I wonder how is he going to get out of the mess that he is in.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
                  - I know that they are trying to sell us on Iris being team leader, but I still can't help but wonder......... why? What makes her the most qualified to do that? Because it feels a lot like she's leader by default because she doesn't have any other attributes that make her even semi-useful to the team. And "being otherwise useless" shouldn't be why you're the team leader.
                  Because Cisco turned people into metas this season, effected the dominators timeline in last season's crossover, Caitlin has multiple personality disorder, Harry is vaguely amoral and Barry runs off half cocked and makes bad decisions too often. Iris and Joe are the 2 more level headed people and Joe's preoccupied being a cop.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dagenspear
                    Because Cisco turned people into metas this season, effected the dominators timeline in last season's crossover, Caitlin has multiple personality disorder, Harry is vaguely amoral and Barry runs off half cocked and makes bad decisions too often. Iris and Joe are the 2 more level headed people and Joe's preoccupied being a cop.
                    You just used two Cisco examples, a Caitlin example, a Harry example, two Barry examples, and a Joe example to explain why Iris being "more level-headed than the rest" is qualified to be the leader of Team Flash. And the reason you did that is because Iris's character is so woefully unqualified that the only thing you could resort to was describing why other people shouldn't be leader.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
                      You just used two Cisco examples, a Caitlin example, a Harry example, two Barry examples, and a Joe example to explain why Iris being "more level-headed than the rest" is qualified to be the leader of Team Flash. And the reason you did that is because Iris's character is so woefully unqualified that the only thing you could resort to was describing why other people shouldn't be leader.
                      I gave an example why Joe isn't available to be a leader, not why he's not qualified. Iris wouldn't be qualified in a team made of people who didn't make bad decisions. But they do, so she is. I wouldn't want any of them leading me after the bad and selfish decisions they've made that have resulted in massive negative consequences.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dagenspear
                        I gave an example why Joe isn't available to be a leader, not why he's not qualified. Iris wouldn't be qualified in a team made of people who didn't make bad decisions. But they do, so she is. I wouldn't want any of them leading me after the bad and selfish decisions they've made that have resulted in massive negative consequences.
                        They've also learned a lot from those mistakes. But that's beside the point. You wouldn't hire someone who has never done any plumbing to work on the plumbing in your house just because you heard the actual qualified plumber messed up someone's kitchen. One is a flawed plumber who made a mistake, while the other is just some person holding a wrench. It's stupid. In the real world, you're not qualified to do a thing because other people with experience, who actually know how to do that thing, made mistakes. You have to have actual qualifications, experience, and/or education in a thing to be trusted to do it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
                          They've also learned a lot from those mistakes. But that's beside the point. You wouldn't hire someone who has never done any plumbing to work on the plumbing in your house just because you heard the actual qualified plumber messed up someone's kitchen. One is a flawed plumber who made a mistake, while the other is just some person holding a wrench. It's stupid. In the real world, you're not qualified to do a thing because other people with experience, who actually know how to do that thing, made mistakes. You have to have actual qualifications, experience, and/or education in a thing to be trusted to do it.
                          This.

                          Although in fairness It's not actually like Iris actually does anything as the "leader". She sits front of the computers and relays what she sees on those computers to Barry and others.
                          And the orders she gives, people would had been doing that anyway so they just kind of go along with it. So it's like she's more of a honorary leader than an real one.

                          If anything what Iris did was free up the others to do what they do best. If Cisco became the leader, Then he would had to sober up and he wouldn't be the fun character we all knew and loved. Plus it would had jeopardized his friendship with Catlin snow... because a boss and a employee can't be best friends with each other no matter how much they pretend. It would had wrecked the dynamic they had. Ditto if Catlin snow became the boss instead.

                          When you're writing this show and the actors have such great chemistry as best friends, etc... then you'd be a fool to mess around with that. So I can see why they didn't make one of the main star-labs people the leader because it would had possibly ended up wrecking what was a good thing.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
                            They've also learned a lot from those mistakes. But that's beside the point. You wouldn't hire someone who has never done any plumbing to work on the plumbing in your house just because you heard the actual qualified plumber messed up someone's kitchen. One is a flawed plumber who made a mistake, while the other is just some person holding a wrench. It's stupid. In the real world, you're not qualified to do a thing because other people with experience, who actually know how to do that thing, made mistakes. You have to have actual qualifications, experience, and/or education in a thing to be trusted to do it.
                            They haven't learned. Cisco proved that this season, when he still messed with something he doesn't understand. Barry's learned. Harry may have learned. But I would absolutely hire someone with no experience over someone who is prone to messing up the house, but has experience. Barry learned, after multiple times committing it not to make rash decisions, but he's also done it this season still. It doesn't make her qualified really. It just makes her more trustworthy than them. They may be experienced, but they're idiots. As they've shown this season. Not that this matters, because this isn't really a job. It's Iris giving directions. She doesn't fight crime.

                            But also, no, they aren't more qualified. I don't think any of them have ever been leaders of the team at any point. So, it's pretty balanced as far as qualifications go, as far as I remember.

                            Comment

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