Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "Reversal?"

[KSiteTV]

What did you think?

[vantheman77]

If they know that she's the Dinah Laurel of Earth-2, shouldn't they contact Team Flash to send her back there through the breach portals?

[moviefan2k4]

I like some aspects of this episode. It was very surprising to see the Helix girl return, and I'd completely forgotten Michael Emerson was the "big bad" this year. I'm not a fan of Siren suddenly being implied as bisexual, though the way Rene' asked about it was funny for his character.

I do think they really need to make up their minds though, about Oliver & Felicity; the whole "will or won't they" has been going for way too long. I also miss Thea a great deal; she often helped ground the more fantastic elements and give Oliver a sounding board. I also want them to wrap up the "John as Green Arrow" story, by the middle of the season; its kinda foolish for the FBI to not realize the truth when non-Fed characters keep finding out.

If they know that she's the Dinah Laurel of Earth-2, shouldn't they contact Team Flash to send her back there through the breach portals?

It would be too simple; Siren is basically the #2 villain of the season.

[JDBentz]

My score for the episode is an 8/10. The season's greatest strength so far is the fact that they no longer have to depend on flashbacks to fill in the time and now they fill in that extra time with more insight into the various characters. This is something that has been hugely missing from the previous five seasons and continues to solidify, in my opinion, that not simply alluding to Oliver's five years away was a huge mistake on their part. Most TV writers (even true veterans on major networks) struggle to write two separate storylines (as in taking place in different times), and no one thinks the Arrow writers are top-notch aside from those solely watching for cheesy romance (and even that's debatable).

As to the episode itself:

So, Laurel's (I'm just gonna follow the show's example here and start calling her this since I don't need to use hashtags on this site like I do on Twitter) mysterious benefactor is Caden James. Ignoring the whole question of how he knew just when to pop up to save her on Lian Yu, I will say its refreshing to see that she appears to be a full partner in this rather than a lackey as she seemed to be with Zoom and Prometheus. BTW, anyone else notice that line about how, "Well, I can't just stay away from you," before she changed her tune and mentioned how there was 'something different' about the GA she was fighting? Maybe I'm just imagining things, but I get the feeling that if anyone is gonna reach the part of this Laurel that's still 'good' (if there is such a part of her), its going to be Oliver. Especially since Quentin has, thus far, knocked her out and then shot her to save the person she feels (however wrongly) is trying to replace her.

I did enjoy the fact that there was more willingness on Felicity's part to accept her culpability in Caden James' escape, and I can't help but take note that in the hospital, when Elena 'confirms' Caden 'changed' from the man she knew before, she seems to do it very quickly. I think we're going to slowly learn over the episodes Caden appears in that he was never just a hacktivist, that he was always a cyber-terrorist. I am kind of irritated that Oliver still won't just let Felicity have it the way she would've let him have it (and she doesn't have the PTSD factor, apparently, that he did whenever she would do this), but I've gotten used to the fact the showrunners and writers can't allow Felicity to ever be upbraided, no matter how much she deserves it.

One factor I do find completely irritating is the fact that Elena, who WM has described as (surprise, surprise) one of their favorite characters miraculously survived a gunshot wound to the abdomen. Seriously... E-1 Laurel gets stabbed by an arrow and dies due to complications from surgery, but both Felicity and this Elena chick get shot and walk away (even if it took a few episodes for Felicity).

All in all, I did enjoy the episode, but there were still irritating factors. Oh, and thank you Slade Wilson, for saving us from a repeat of 3x20.

[KSiteTV]

I loved the first three episodes of Season 6, but I wasn't a fan of this one. It felt like Season 4 all over again and that's not a good thing. Episode 6x03 felt like a good mix of "everything that Arrow is" without pandering to a particular fan group; here, it all came crashing back.

I also am going to have a possibly unpopular opinion in saying Michael Emerson didn't seem to fit like most guests do on the show. Nothing wrong with him; I just ... wasn't really feeling Cayden James. (It also didn't help that the East Coast spoiled me on that before the reveal.)

[shadow08]

LOL, I skipped more than 50% of this episode. From the little I've seen, Michael Emerson was certainly the highlight but Black Siren is turning more and more into an over the top cartoon villain. Her character seems to have no mind or motivation of her own. She's essentially just there to kill people and blow up buildings by command.

[Freawaru]

I give it a 9/10 mainly because they really develop Felicity now. She finally is confronted with the fact that she is NOT the most intelligent girl in town. Sometimes she is indeed downright stupid. Also, some of her flaws are shown so directly that I hope they will address them and develop her according to them.

One flaw of Felicity: bad decisions made due to arrogance, decisions with consequences. Like freeing Cayden James just because some girl she barely knew said he was a good guy. As if she didn't know Lyla for years! Trust isn't exactly Felicity's strength, in the sense that she trusts the wrong people. Same with the team, again her mistake was to try to solve things her own, not even following her promise to Oliver to at least tell the team about her plans. I think it was right for Oliver to follow her and to interfere once things got fishy. And she got her thingy anyway (was nice to see how effortlessly Oliver dealt with those guys). So Felicity blaming Oliver for screwing her plan was not only unjustified but even incorrect. And Diggle told her the team needed her. Teamwork is really something Felicity needs to work on.

As to bad decisions: the end showed that Felicity was played again. I do wonder if Alena is as innocent as she acts. She played Felicity from the beginning (without Felicity realizing it) and James' plan might well include to use Felicity again at some point via Alena. Her turn from hacktivist to legally working for Felicity in her new firm was too fast, IMO.

James and Chase? How did James know and why did he go to Lian Yu ? Did they work together somehow? It would explain some of the things in season 5.

As to Olicity. I get the impression that Felicity does not really want to marry Oliver. The question is why. My current speculation is that she either cannot have or does not want to have children. She always looks so uncomfortable when her own possible children are mentioned. So maybe her preventing a wedding with Oliver is just to prevent her mother to expect grandchildren.

Otherwise Felicty clearly was portrayed as nasty at times. Slashing out to Oliver, Diggle and others for no reason. Because of not getting enough sleep (something I can empathise with) but just because in addition to her Arrow Team work she tries to open a firm? Two seasons ago she juggled Team Arrow, Palmer Tech and bad omelets! So something else might be on her mind here. Anyway, something to develop.

The reversal of Oliver being Overwatch was amusing. Maybe a new way for him to work again for Team Arrow?

So far I am pleased with the Arrow-story season 6 and I am looking forward to the Slade storyline.

[JDBentz]

I always thought that the EMP thing happening right after the 'heartbeat tracker program' locating Chase in the Bunker (which we're expected to believe he escaped when all exits and entrances were sealed to the point Oliver and Felicity had to practically blast their way out) was too fishy. Now we know that Cayden James (who programmed that heartbeat tracker) seems to have had at least a passing relationship with Chase to know his final plan (not to mention the fact that Laurel trusted him to get her out of there, suggesting she had at least seen him before), I can't help but think the ONLY thing I was off on regarding is that the EMP was indeed meant to trap Oliver and Felicity while Adrian kidnapped William and Samantha, instead of being Cayden James 'tying up loose ends' as I thought would be the case. I've never got the impression Cayden James was some innocent hacktivist for one simple reason:

He was being held at an ARGUS blacksite, while SLADE WILSON, who led a freaking siege of an American city perpetrated by super-soldiers, has a bed and hygienic facilities, as does Digger Harkness, who tried to kill the woman who was Amanda Waller's right-hand and who became the Director of ARGUS. If ARGUS gave those two decent cells, then WHAT would make ARGUS hold someone in a black-site like they were holding Cayden James?

[evaba]

I give it a 9/10 mainly because they really develop Felicity now. She finally is confronted with the fact that she is NOT the most intelligent girl in town. Sometimes she is indeed downright stupid. Also, some of her flaws are shown so directly that I hope they will address them and develop her according to them.

One flaw of Felicity: bad decisions made due to arrogance, decisions with consequences. Like freeing Cayden James just because some girl she barely knew said he was a good guy. As if she didn't know Lyla for years! Trust isn't exactly Felicity's strength, in the sense that she trusts the wrong people. Same with the team, again her mistake was to try to solve things her own, not even following her promise to Oliver to at least tell the team about her plans. I think it was right for Oliver to follow her and to interfere once things got fishy. And she got her thingy anyway (was nice to see how effortlessly Oliver dealt with those guys). So Felicity blaming Oliver for screwing her plan was not only unjustified but even incorrect. And Diggle told her the team needed her. Teamwork is really something Felicity needs to work on.

As to bad decisions: the end showed that Felicity was played again. I do wonder if Alena is as innocent as she acts. She played Felicity from the beginning (without Felicity realizing it) and James' plan might well include to use Felicity again at some point via Alena. Her turn from hacktivist to legally working for Felicity in her new firm was too fast, IMO.

James and Chase? How did James know and why did he go to Lian Yu ? Did they work together somehow? It would explain some of the things in season 5.

As to Olicity. I get the impression that Felicity does not really want to marry Oliver. The question is why. My current speculation is that she either cannot have or does not want to have children. She always looks so uncomfortable when her own possible children are mentioned. So maybe her preventing a wedding with Oliver is just to prevent her mother to expect grandchildren.

Otherwise Felicty clearly was portrayed as nasty at times. Slashing out to Oliver, Diggle and others for no reason. Because of not getting enough sleep (something I can empathise with) but just because in addition to her Arrow Team work she tries to open a firm? Two seasons ago she juggled Team Arrow, Palmer Tech and bad omelets! So something else might be on her mind here. Anyway, something to develop.

The reversal of Oliver being Overwatch was amusing. Maybe a new way for him to work again for Team Arrow?

So far I am pleased with the Arrow-story season 6 and I am looking forward to the Slade storyline.

I would have believed your thoughts about the writers' intentions to show a flawed Felicity if I hadn't read so many complaints about how they let a bunch of other characters shill and praise Felicity as is she were the Chosen One in this ep, as they so often do. I haven't seen the episode yet, so I may be wrong, but if I am, Guggenheim and his writers are clearly going against their own habits. I mean, they usually present Felicity as this near-perfect woman, who has the right to berate her co-characters, while they all fawn over her and her greatness (I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get my point). I also think that Felicity sometimes appears as more confrontational than what the script/director require because of EBR's problems with conveying her emotions in a convincing manner. For example, in this scene I think EBR is supposed to convey Felicity's remorse or sadness, but it did appear as though she was lashing out at Diggle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78DRFKW6p9k

Scenes like this just take me out of the fiction, because all I can focus on is EBR's odd delivery of her lines and stilted acting.

Anyway, I personally think we're expecting too much if we believe that the writers have any aims of developing Felicity, in the sense that they're letting her have real flaws or make mistakes that will have any serious repercussions for herself or her relationship with other characters. They're just writing her as they always have, and I very much doubt that they will paint her in a bad light. There is a sizeable part of the fandom that does interpret her actions and behavior in a negative manner, but I don't think that is due to any conscious endeavor on the part of the writers to display her flaws or bad choices.

[Freawaru]

I would have believed your thoughts about the writers' intentions to show a flawed Felicity if I hadn't read so many complaints about how they let a bunch of other characters shill and praise Felicity as is she were the Chosen One in this ep, as they so often do.

Did they? You saw Diggle's look of pity/compassion when Felicity slashed out on him because she was feeling bad. She apologized and he forgave her because he knew where it came from. This was script. Then her telling Oliver "I know you like to say "I told you so"" and he just replying calmly "no, that is you!". Again. script. I don't see them praising Felicity, just trying to support her because they know she cannot take more. It was different when Slade taught Oliver, lot's of bruises and hard words, but Oliver is not Felicity. I don't think she would have survived what Oliver survived simply because she is such a slow learner.

And for once Felicity did reflect that she made a mistake in freeing Cayden James. She said so: script. Just as Oliver has flaws (and now and then the writers remember to develop him regarding them) Felicity's flaws are out in the open now and started to develop.

I haven't seen the episode yet, so I may be wrong, but if I am, Guggenheim and his writers are clearly going against their own habits.

I can't comment on that because I have no idea what Guggenheim thinks and is plans.

I mean, they usually present Felicity as this near-perfect woman, who has the right to berate her co-characters, while they all fawn over her and her greatness (I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get my point).

Yes, especially in season three and four, but the characters are not the writers. Just because Felicity is presented as a spoiled child does not mean that the characters identify her as one. Oliver never was really good at seeing persons for who they are (he slept with a woman who had been on the List!)? Felicity is intelligent in some ways, in ways neither Oliver nor Diggle is, and people often make the mistake of thinking that genius is not restricted to certain subjects. But all round genius is really rare and Felicity never was presented as being one. Someone good at math may not be good at languages or climbing or self-reflection.

I also think that Felicity sometimes appears as more confrontational than what the script/director require because of EBR's problems with conveying her emotions in a convincing manner. For example, in this scene I think EBR is supposed to convey Felicity's remorse or sadness, but it did appear as though she was lashing out at Diggle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78DRFKW6p9k

I might agree except for the scene with Oliver and her forgetting that she had asked him to come and Diggle's face and reaction and the fact that she supposedly was low on sleep. Did you watch Stargate Atlantis? The character Dr. Rodney McKay also gets irritated and unbearable when he is hungry (but at least he knows this).

Scenes like this just take me out of the fiction, because all I can focus on is EBR's odd delivery of her lines and stilted acting.

Not being an actress myself I can only interpret what I see. And it didn't come across as remorse or sadness. To me it looked as if Felicity again didn't get at first what Diggle really asked, namely if she was able to function and do her job. I don't know if this was the intention of writers and actress but that is how I interpreted it, because that would not be the first time Felicity does not get things.

Anyway, I personally think we're expecting too much if we believe that the writers have any aims of developing Felicity, in the sense that they're letting her have real flaws or make mistakes that will have any serious repercussions for herself

She was almost killed trice this episode and at least once she admitted that she made mistakes in not letting the team know what she was doing. There is hope for her yet.

[evaba]

@Freawaru, thanks for the thoughtful reply! I will watch the episode myself and see what conclusions I will draw from the scripted action. My suspicion towards any intention to portray Felicity as flawed (and I mean with
REAL flaws, that will be seriously addressed within the fiction, and not just brushed away in a manner that will again make Felicity come out smelling like roses!) is that I haven't seen any attempts to give this kind of complexity and depth to Felicity's character yet.

As for EBR's sometimes unconvincing and almost amateur-level dramatic acting, I'm not the only fan who has noticed this problem. I think she is passable when Felicity is in her normal cheerful/supportive mood, but when EBR is required to act a scene with more emotional depth (anger, sadness, remorse, guilt etc.) her weaknesses are exposed in a sometimes rather painful manner (all this IMHO, of course). And it's not really possible to give her lack of experience as an excuse, since she has had at least four years to polish her skills and progress as an actress. Anyway, I guess I just expect more from an actress who is the de facto female lead, especially in an episode which was focussed on her storyline/character development. I'm fully aware that none of the younger DCTV actors are top-rate actors, but most of them have enough professionality to fulfill the minimal requirements for a CW actor.

[Shelby Kent]

... For example, in this scene I think EBR is supposed to convey Felicity's remorse or sadness, but it did appear as though she was lashing out at Diggle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78DRFKW6p9k

Scenes like this just take me out of the fiction, because all I can focus on is EBR's odd delivery of her lines and stilted acting.

Ugh, that was pretty bad! Happened to catch a few scenes of the episode, though not this particular scene (and thankfully so!).

I completely agree: her delivery, especially starting at the end of her first sentence in that clip, took me right out of the scene. Bizarrely, where she says, with a tetanus-like-locked-jaw intensity, "Am I okay...," I had the oddest vision of the character clenching a baton in her mouth, struggling to speak around it. Wow, very weird acting choice there, EBR. (Though to be fair she's not the only actor who's taken me out of a scene: I'll always have nothing but the fondest of memories of Diggle literally roaring during a Bratva-focused episode last season, lol).

Meanwhile, hearing the character lash out at Diggle, merely b/c he was concerned enough to ask if she was okay, brought back unpleasant memories of immature Felicity circa S4, when she spent most of one episode lashing out at Oliver as he tried to help her find Ray.

So much for character growth. Never change, Arrow writers and Felicity, never change!

[Freawaru]

@Freawaru, thanks for the thoughtful reply! I will watch the episode myself and see what conclusions I will draw from the scripted action. My suspicion towards any intention to portray Felicity as flawed (and I mean with
REAL flaws, that will be seriously addressed within the fiction, and not just brushed away in a manner that will again make Felicity come out smelling like roses!) is that I haven't seen any attempts to give this kind of complexity and depth to Felicity's character yet.

You know, I thought so, too, but when I rewatched season 3 and 4 I found out she actually was getting good insight on her flaws from both her mother (about not Oliver being the problem in their relationship as Felicity always said but Felicity herself and her problematic relationship with her own father) and Curtis.

As for EBR's sometimes unconvincing and almost amateur-level dramatic acting, I'm not the only fan who has noticed this problem.

As I said I am no expert here. But in the scene when Dig asked if she was okay Felicity seemed to me as almost hysteric. And it made sense to me because she said herself (script) that she was low on sleep and overworked. I didn't see remorse or sadness here and I don't understand why she should have shown it in this scene. In my experience stress and lack of sleep makes people aggressive, irritable and stupid, not remorseful and sad. (That is, I guess, also why Diggle ordered her to rest).

As to EBR's acting, I can't say much because I don't know much about acting. But I can say that she does not draw me in as say, Manu Bennet does or Robert Carlyle (Rumpelstilskin in Once upon a time) or also - at times - Stephen Amell. But character-development wise they also developed Thea for example real nicely, and Laurel (the first one) so I still have hope they do that with Felicity, too. If they want her to be the female lead they should.

I think she is passable when Felicity is in her normal cheerful/supportive mood, but when EBR is required to act a scene with more emotional depth (anger, sadness, remorse, guilt etc.) her weaknesses are exposed in a sometimes rather painful manner (all this IMHO, of course). And it's not really possible to give her lack of experience as an excuse, since she has had at least four years to polish her skills and progress as an actress. Anyway, I guess I just expect more from an actress who is the de facto female lead, especially in an episode which was focussed on her storyline/character development. I'm fully aware that none of the younger DCTV actors are top-rate actors, but most of them have enough professionality to fulfill the minimal requirements for a CW actor.

Maybe Felicity is supposed to be like EBR acts her? I mean, I only know her in this role, but IMO, a really good actor shows when playing different roles differently. Say, I had to look trice to see Dr. Radek Zelenka (Stargate Atlantis) in Anatoly Knyazev and then I thought "whow!".

[Freawaru]

I've never got the impression Cayden James was some innocent hacktivist for one simple reason:

He was being held at an ARGUS blacksite, while SLADE WILSON, who led a freaking siege of an American city perpetrated by super-soldiers, has a bed and hygienic facilities, as does Digger Harkness, who tried to kill the woman who was Amanda Waller's right-hand and who became the Director of ARGUS. If ARGUS gave those two decent cells, then WHAT would make ARGUS hold someone in a black-site like they were holding Cayden James?

I agree and the only idea I had so far was: Cayden James is a meta human and using this odd cell ARGUS tried to keep him from using his ability (whatever his ability is).

[evaba]

And for once Felicity did reflect that she made a mistake in freeing Cayden James. She said so: script. Just as Oliver has flaws (and now and then the writers remember to develop him regarding them) Felicity's flaws are out in the open now and started to develop.

It's comments like these (which abound online) which has made me fear that 6.4 will be another declaration of love for Miss Perfect Felicity Smoak!

Everyone was constantly singing praises to Felicity even when she was not there, Finch including.

I do see your point about the writers trying to give Felicity some flaws, but my impression is that even when Felicity is shown to have faults, the script treats them in a way that makes them seem like slight misteps, which can always be excused (fatigue, stress), and which seldom break down Felicity's armor of near-perfection. And then there was the ludicrous and clumsy in-fiction Olicity shipping (Curtis saying that he "ships" Oliver and Felicity, REALLY???), which is frankly just as annoying as the coddling and praising of Felicity.