Arrowverse crossover (spoilers)

[Halberdier17]

I would probably skip it. I quit most of the Arrowverse shows.

The four part crossover this season was terrible it dragged on forever and most of it was a chore to watch.

[Haggard01]

As a viewer of all 4 shows between 2012 and 2017, the only thing I felt they ever owed me was good storytelling that's not jeopardized by fan pandering, social commentary or diversity for the sake of it (looking at you, Curtis).

They royally failed in that regard. And they don't even seem to realize that they have, despite of the ratings drop for all 4 shows.

Anyway, since they want to use Gotham City (along with the odd Batman reference), it's a good thing Gotham will still be on hiatus at the time. Just so they avoid any confusion.

The Sara/Alex/Kathy love triangle will probably occupy a healthy chunk of these 4 hours.

Same here for the only thing I ever felt I was owed was good story telling and yeah they've failed on that regard for sure.

Yep they don't realize or care to. It's like Marvel or DC comics that keep doing the same thing besides not getting the memo there either.

Yes it is truly a good thing Gotham will be on hiatus since we wouldn't want anybody getting confused.

Oh speaking of Gotham go check out the interview stuff I posted in the Gotham spoiler section regarding Barbara's storyline in season 5 and it is way worse than the League of "girl power" in season 4. They cranked up the agenda pandering stuff to the max regarding her.

Yes the Sara/Alex and Kathy love triangle will no doubt occupy a healthy chunk of those 4 hours.

[TheSecretVampire]

As a viewer of all 4 shows between 2012 and 2017, the only thing I felt they ever owed me was good storytelling that's not jeopardized by fan pandering, social commentary or diversity for the sake of it (looking at you, Curtis).

They royally failed in that regard. And they don't even seem to realize that they have, despite of the ratings drop for all 4 shows.

Anyway, since they want to use Gotham City (along with the odd Batman reference), it's a good thing Gotham will still be on hiatus at the time. Just so they avoid any confusion.

The Sara/Alex/Kathy love triangle will probably occupy a healthy chunk of these 4 hours.

Can't wait to see who ruins the crossover this time.

One time it was Felicity racking up a storm because Oliver didn't tell her about William.

Next one was ruined because Cisco was so butthurt at Barry for the majority of it.

This current season crossover was ruined because Felicity and Oliver decided to steal Barry and Iris's moment to get married themselves.


Stay tuned!

[costas22]

Oh speaking of Gotham go check out the interview stuff I posted in the Gotham spoiler section regarding Barbara's storyline in season 5 and it is way worse than the League of "girl power" in season 4. They cranked up the agenda pandering stuff to the max regarding her.

Just read it and saw the episode. Damn, it was quite cringey! It's like they think man hating is a cool concept for her or any other character. Supergirl started a trend it seems.

Can't wait to see who ruins the crossover this time.

One time it was Felicity racking up a storm because Oliver didn't tell her about William.

Next one was ruined because Cisco was so butthurt at Barry for the majority of it.

This current season crossover was ruined because Felicity and Oliver decided to steal Barry and Iris's moment to get married themselves.


Stay tuned!

Can't speak for Olicity hijacking WestAllen's wedding (although it sounds like a really douchebag thing to do), but the Cisco stuff was really irritating after a while. He almost ruined that crossover and as legitimate as his gripe was, you felt like punching him for repeatedly putting his issues with Barry over the fate of the world.

One thing's for sure. With 4 hours to fill, there will always be some kind of melodrama or shipper storyline to fill time. It also kind of sucks that the final part of the crossover will be The Flash's 100th episode and it won't have a lot to do with the show itself.

[TheSecretVampire]

That said, I am slightly excited for this....but how can you do Batwoman and not even have Batman in it, despite him being named dropped before. And watch they deal with some lame villain in this crossover.

[proteus]

As a viewer of all 4 shows between 2012 and 2017, the only thing I felt they ever owed me was good storytelling that's not jeopardized by fan pandering, social commentary or diversity for the sake of it (looking at you, Curtis).

They royally failed in that regard. And they don't even seem to realize that they have, despite of the ratings drop for all 4 shows.

Anyway, since they want to use Gotham City (along with the odd Batman reference), it's a good thing Gotham will still be on hiatus at the time. Just so they avoid any confusion.

The Sara/Alex/Kathy love triangle will probably occupy a healthy chunk of these 4 hours.

Sara has a girlfriend, Ava Sharpe. She's not going to be in a love triangle with Alex & Kate.

[costas22]

Sara has a girlfriend, Ava Sharpe. She's not going to be in a love triangle with Alex & Kate.

And last year Alex had just come off her devastating break-up with Maggie. Didn't stop her from having a one night stand with Sara. Don't worry, there's room for every kind of pair up on these shows. Besides, Sara will probably have broken up with Ava by the time of the crossover. Long live the romantic melodrama of the Arrowverse.

[jon-el87]

And last year Alex had just come off her devastating break-up with Maggie. Didn't stop her from having a one night stand with Sara. Don't worry, there's room for every kind of pair up on these shows. Besides, Sara will probably have broken up with Ava by the time of the crossover. Long live the romantic melodrama of the Arrowverse.

Which Alex then felt bad about, as "that's a guy thing" (I think that was the actual line).

[costas22]

Which Alex then felt bad about, as "that's a guy thing" (I think that was the actual line).

Guilt is part of the storyline and I would expect someone like Alex to feel that way after the event. The bottom line is that the writers had them randomly sleep together because they were trying to appease shipper fans or LGBT fans in particular. It had nothing to do with the story. And it wouldn't surprise me if more of the same happens with next season's crossover.

By the way, I love that line of Sara's. Championing feminism by being sexist. Awesome.

[jon-el87]

Guilt is part of the storyline and I would expect someone like Alex to feel that way after the event. The bottom line is that the writers had them randomly sleep together because they were trying to appease shipper fans or LGBT fans in particular. It had nothing to do with the story. And it wouldn't surprise me if more of the same happens with next season's crossover.

By the way, I love that line of Sara's. Championing feminism by being sexist. Awesome.

To me, it didn't come across as them trying to appease LGBT fans, but rather pander to straight guys who wanna see two girls hook up. Hence the focus on girl-on-girl action, while the gay male characters are barely allowed to kiss. The only time I can recall two guys in the Arrowverse kiss was Leo Snart and the Ray and it wouldn't surprise me if the original script just had them hugging, but Wentworth Miller put his foot down.

The Arrowverse writers often try to come across as progressive, but fail at actually being it. They change some characters to become African American, then make said characters the most expendable. I almost laughed during the scene in the crossover where they have Iris, Wells, Felicity and Caitlin in a room together (guess who has to have things explained to them). They introduce LGBT characters, but mainly does lesbian and bisexual women, that in no way comes across like them trying to appeal to guys who just wanna see girl-on-girl action. Or, they try to champion feminism by being sexist or doing it in such a way, that they have to put down the male characters and/or have them be inept (meaning that a woman can be strong... as long as every man within 50 miles is a moron).

[costas22]

To me, it didn't come across as them trying to appease LGBT fans, but rather pander to straight guys who wanna see two girls hook up. Hence the focus on girl-on-girl action, while the gay male characters are barely allowed to kiss. The only time I can recall two guys in the Arrowverse kiss was Leo Snart and the Ray and it wouldn't surprise me if the original script just had them hugging, but Wentworth Miller put his foot down.

I think that's mainly because of a general movie/tv trend where a kiss between two men is considered more taboo than a kiss between two women. Even now that more and more gay characters are incorporated in the storylines. For me it doesn't make much of a difference, but I've noticed that some shows seem very hesitant to go there, even though they have gay couples (for example, Curtis and his boyfriend on Arrow or Captain Singh and his fiance on The Flash would only hug).

Regarding, Alex and Sara, not to defend the Arrowverse, but I don't think their intention was to appease straight guys who like to see two women kissing. There are shows that have done it for this very reason (Gotham, for example), but IMO the Berlanti shows' intention is usually representation (as flawed as its execution is). Their logic probably was "With 2 straight couples getting married during the crossover, we must give something to LGBT fans as well". That's probably also why they chose to include The Ray in these episodes and do the thing with Snart. But even if we look at it from a shipping/aesthetic standpoint, it wouldn't surprise me if there were just as many gay women that wanted to see Alex and Sara kiss as there were straight men. If not more. Shipper groups about lesbian characters on social media are usually comprised of women in their vast majority.

The Arrowverse writers often try to come across as progressive, but fail at actually being it. They change some characters to become African American, then make said characters the most expendable. I almost laughed during the scene in the crossover where they have Iris, Wells, Felicity and Caitlin in a room together (guess who has to have things explained to them). They introduce LGBT characters, but mainly does lesbian and bisexual women, that in no way comes across like them trying to appeal to guys who just wanna see girl-on-girl action. Or, they try to champion feminism by being sexist or doing it in such a way, that they have to put down the male characters and/or have them be inept (meaning that a woman can be strong... as long as every man within 50 miles is a moron).

Fully agree. They act like they are all about diversity, but either it's just for show (evidenced by the way they just hammer the audience over the head about it) or they quite frankly just don't know how to write progressive characters and storylines. I remember someone saying that a lot of the feminist stuff on Supergirl is basically a male writer's wrong interpretation of what Feminism is (man hating). And it really does seem that way. Curtis Holt during his first 2 seasons on Arrow also felt like a caricature by people who didn't know what a gay man is usually like.

[proteus]

And last year Alex had just come off her devastating break-up with Maggie. Didn't stop her from having a one night stand with Sara. Don't worry, there's room for every kind of pair up on these shows. Besides, Sara will probably have broken up with Ava by the time of the crossover. Long live the romantic melodrama of the Arrowverse.

Ava was made a series regular on Legends and the shows EP had been pretty clear in interviews that they intend for Ava & Sara to be a stable couple, so I doubt that.

[costas22]

Ava was made a series regular on Legends and the shows EP had been pretty clear in interviews that they intend for Ava & Sara to be a stable couple, so I doubt that.

Fair enough. We'll see. I wouldn't rule out anything when it comes to couples on these shows.

[TyrantLord]

For those of you arguing why you see more lesbian kissing than gay males kissing: also you guys have to factor in the actors themselves. Sometimes it's not about good writing or lack their of, sometimes it's about comfort zones. I don't know much about any of these guys' personal lives as I don't follow social media, but has it ever occurred to anyone that an actor who is PLAYING a gay character might actually be straight in real life?

I'm just saying that could account for why some of these gay couples, be they be women or men, may not show more affection on screen beyond hugging. Comfort zones have to be taken into accounts for ALL parties involved.

[jon-el87]

I don't know much about any of these guys' personal lives as I don't follow social media, but has it ever occurred to anyone that an actor who is PLAYING a gay character might actually be straight in real life?

Thank you, for stating the obvious. The issue isn't simply the gay male kissing versus the lesbian kissing ratio. The question is if the Arrowverse writers are fetishising lesbian acts. Something we need to ask ourselves, especially in the light of the Kriesberg matter. It creates the possibility that people in the writers room push for girl-on-girl kissing, for no other reason than they themselves want to see (for ex.) Caity and Chyler make out.