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  1. #1
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    Death of Laurel Lance

    I don't know whether others will agree with me or not, I felt that the saddest episode of Arrow till now is the one where Laurel dies in Season 4. To me,it wasn't fair to kill her character and replace her by a new one...she should have been saved some how.. Also, in Season 4 episode 15, when everyone finds about Willium, Oliver should have apologized to Laurel..cz he cheated her back then..I think it's only me that feels sad because of this..and trust me, my attraction for the series reduced because of this incident..and don't know why, I feel Oliver and Laurel should be together instead of Olicity bcz to me they seem to have more chemistry..hope to see Laurel again in Arrow

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manifa Rakin View Post
    I don't know whether others will agree with me or not, I felt that the saddest episode of Arrow till now is the one where Laurel dies in Season 4. To me,it wasn't fair to kill her character and replace her by a new one...she should have been saved some how.. Also, in Season 4 episode 15, when everyone finds about Willium, Oliver should have apologized to Laurel..cz he cheated her back then..I think it's only me that feels sad because of this..and trust me, my attraction for the series reduced because of this incident..and don't know why, I feel Oliver and Laurel should be together instead of Olicity bcz to me they seem to have more chemistry..hope to see Laurel again in Arrow
    Believe me, you're not the only one who feels this way! My interest in the series also waned quite a bit when they killed off Laurel at the point where her Black Canary story really started. It's just ONE in countless bad decisions made by the current showrunners and it has infuriated and alienated a sizeable part of the fandom. The fact that they almost immediately introduced a NEW Black Canary (in a very rushed, forced and "inorganic" manner) didn't make things better. I personally think that Marc Guggenheim will go down in history as the showrunner who turned a promising GA adaptation into a travesty, of both the show's OWN premises and the GA mythos. I'm still watching and enjoying some elements and characters, but I personally don't feel that season five was such a promising return to the "good old days" as some folks do. It was certainly better than the horrendous season four (which was recently panned even by Stephen Amell!), but that doesn't say much.

  3. #3
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    It was the most moronic decision this or any other Berlanti show has made, period. And the subsequent decisions on the showrunners' part have been even more moronic.

  4. #4
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    It was the most moronic decision this or any other Berlanti show has made, period. And the subsequent decisions on the showrunners' part have been even more moronic.
    To put it simply you can correct one mistake making another. I don't hate Tina/Dinah as the character, it would be really stupid to hate her for not being Laurel. But unlike the case of "Robin of Sherwood", where Robert Huntington replaced Robert of Loxley, killed by the Sheriff's man, it doesn't feel like the title of new Black Canary was earned by Tina/Dinah. She has powers, Quentin gave her his blessing so everything according to writers is fine. But most likely she will became another victim of organic writing [tm].

  5. #5
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarice View Post
    To put it simply you can correct one mistake making another. I don't hate Tina/Dinah as the character, it would be really stupid to hate her for not being Laurel. But unlike the case of "Robin of Sherwood", where Robert Huntington replaced Robert of Loxley, killed by the Sheriff's man, it doesn't feel like the title of new Black Canary was earned by Tina/Dinah. She has powers, Quentin gave her his blessing so everything according to writers is fine. But most likely she will became another victim of organic writing [tm].
    Personally, I don't hate Tina herself because she's the new Black Canary but I do hate the idea of a new Black Canary. If their reason behind killing Laurel was "This show doesn't work with a Black Canary because she will never be the alpha female over Felicity" (I'm not referring to who dates Oliver), then I would have respected it as much as I disagreed with it. But that's not what they did. They rushed to introduce a new BC and they half-assedly gave her a canon name. And it's not even a case of realizing their mistake because if that were true, they would have resurrected Laurel through Flashpoint. Hell, they even brought Katie Cassidy back, only to play a different character.

    So looking back 18 months later, it's hard not to believe that they were just looking for a way to take the BC mantle away from Cassidy and give it someone else. And knowing how much pride she took in that role, this whole sequence of events will always be a sore spot for me.
    Last edited by costas22; 09-19-2017 at 11:07 PM.

  6. #6
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    It was the most moronic decision this or any other Berlanti show has made, period. And the subsequent decisions on the showrunners' part have been even more moronic.


    This. And their way of sort of fixing that was bringing back KC as Black Siren, which will turn out to be stupid in the end because we all know her sole goal will to put Dinah over and make her the legit, Black Canary. Also, I don't like how Lance said she's Black Canary in the finale because she hasn't done anything yet to earn that name. I don't hate Dinah and I hope she gets more important stuff to do in season 6, but it's not enough yet for her to be Black Canary.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSecretVampire View Post
    This. And their way of sort of fixing that was bringing back KC as Black Siren, which will turn out to be stupid in the end because we all know her sole goal will to put Dinah over and make her the legit, Black Canary. Also, I don't like how Lance said she's Black Canary in the finale because she hasn't done anything yet to earn that name. I don't hate Dinah and I hope she gets more important stuff to do in season 6, but it's not enough yet for her to be Black Canary.
    Yeah well if they keep Black Siren a villain, that won't bother me much. Really Black Siren is just them trying to rectify their season 4 actions.

    I have to agree when Lance said to Dinah in 5x23 that she was the Black Canary now, I kind of was like "Wait, what?" since when did she go some episodes back not wanting to become the next Black Canary to suddnely accepting it and smiling when Quentin said it, if I recall correctly. Like typical of the Arrowverse shows, important development happens off screen at times.

    Really for my views on Dinah while I liked her in her first episodes, I'm just kind of indiffernt currently because she's done really nothing.

    I wouldn't get my hopes though for season 6 for either Black Siren or Dinah Drake due to how we know the writers prefer a blonde IT girl over anything to do with the Black Canary.

    Looking at the Black Canaries of Sara got killed in 3x01, Laurel well dead and sidelined, Dinah Drake while decent starting episodes has been pushed to the sidelines. So I'd say they just don't like the Black Canary in general.

    Actually looking at their screw ups it all started when they decided to kill of Sara, who for better or worse showed up as the Black Canary in 2x01. Regardless of any personal views Sara and sure maybe not by comic origin and such but concept wise Sara was, even though never called by that on the show.

    So how exactly did they figure Laurel was going to match up to her sister? Maybe it could have been done but certainly not by this crew of writers.

    Though I will say this in regards to Black Siren and Dinah Drake, since they were bringing Laurel back anyway and that might be a guess since despite our best well guesses we don't know all the behind the scenes stuff. Wish we did though.

    Anyway I wish they didn't bring in Dinah Drake period and just waited until they could have used Black Siren until well Katie got to be a full time regular again then they could do the redemption arc of turning Earth 2 Laurel into the next Black Canary without the issues Dinah Drake brings in.

    Earth 2 Laurel I can see more easily fitting the Black Canary role of persona, meta human cry and etc more easily then I could see Earth 1 Laurel doing it.
    Last edited by Haggard01; 09-19-2017 at 08:54 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    Personally, I don't hate Tina herself because she's the new Black Canary but I do hate the idea of a new Black Canary. If their reason behind killing Laurel was "This show doesn't work with a Black Canary because she will never be the alpha female over Felicity" (I'm not referring to who dates Oliver), then I would have respected it as much as I disagreed with it. But that's not what they did. They rushed to introduce a new BC and they half-assedly gave her a canon name. And it's not even a case of realizing their mistake because if that were true, they would have resurrected Laurel through Flashpoint. Hell, they even brought Katie Cassidy back, only to play a different character.

    So looking back 18 months later, it's hard not to believe that they were just looking for a way to take the BC mantle away from Cassidy and give it someone else. And knowing how much pride she took in that role, this whole sequence of events will always be a sore spot for me.
    I don't trust these writers as much as the next person, but I really do believe that various BTS shenanigans have played their part in the mess that is the Black Canary identity on Arrow and it likely goes back all the way to the pilot episode.

    I think when the writers made the decision to kill off Laurel towards the end of season 4, they fully intended for the BC title to die with her. That's why they went through all the trouble to out her identity to the world and had "The Black Canary" written on her headstone. However, during the hiatus between seasons 4 and 5, Geoff Johns went on the record as saying that if you want to write a proper Green Arrow story, you better make sure that Black Canary is in it (paraphrasing here). Now, usually I wouldn't put too much stock into this but curiously enough, when Wendy and Guggie were promoting season 5 of Arrow, they suddenly started to regurgitate that exact same talking point. Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised if Geoff Johns put pressure on Greg Berlanti to introduce a new Black Canary on Arrow, which he and his crew eventually did. However, Dinah's introduction couldn't stop the bleeding in the ratings and that's where KC comes into play, IMO. Taking everything we know about season 6 into account, I really don't think that the producers brought her back wllingly. Considering how much the CW is focusing on her return in the promos, I find it more likely that her character was pushed on the producers by the network in a desperate attempt at a ratings grab. Is it going to work? I doubt it because most general viewers don't base their decision to watch a show solely on the presence of a supporting character, but the people at the CW aren't exactly good at their craft, so...
    Last edited by shadow08; 10-07-2017 at 06:17 PM.

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