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  1. #1
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    When and why did season three start to suck?

    I've been re-watching season three recently, waiting for my immune system to do it's job. And I found out it was way better than I remembered. There were some really good things in it: Ra's was great, Malcom, Nyssa became one of my favorites, Roy and Thea, Dig and Lyla, Oliver's development in the flashbacks, Slade training Oliver and Thea, Maseo and Tatzu and lot's of the action and character interaction was thoroughly enjoyable. So why did I feel increasingly annoyed the farther I watched the season first time and why did I feel disappointed at it's end?

    I guess this has been a topic for a long time but I would like to kind of collect and compare our experiences and opinions again, hoping to understand my own reactions better.

    When I watched season three again I felt completely okay with it for the first five episodes. Olicity was enjoyable, predictably Oliver got cold feet about it at the first reminder that life is insecure, Roy was a pure joy, Dig and Lyla got their baby, Sara died (I like her much better now in LoT than I ever did in Arrow so I didn't mind that), Thea coming back home, Ray Palmer for some comic release, Nyssa, the ex-boyfriend of Felicity, Felicities Mom. Nothing to complain about.

    But then in episode six Felicity started to change - at least I couldn't find the character who had been one of my favourites in season one and two again. I mean, yes, Oliver told her they wouldn't have sex any time soon (in different words but that was the message) and she did what? Show everybody how hurt she was in a completely immature way. How old was she at that time? 25 I think she said in one episode, but her behaiviour was more like 15, if at all. I mean, she supposedly loved Oliver, and she just gave up and showed everybody how pissed she was? I could only applaud Cupid in episode seven - even though she is insane she is at least persistent. Felicity on the other hand supposedly had a high IQ, was sane, knew Oliver for two years, and she just reacted like a high school girl whose boy group guy said no. And with 25 her biological clock was not yet ticking, either. She knew Oliver, why didn't she at least wait until his paranoia grew weaker again. Instead, immediately she fell for the next handsome billionaire who showed interest. I was not convinced she was really in love with Oliver, just like Iris (Flash) she was just attracted physically, but hardly loving the man, because she neither really knew the man nor was interested in getting to know him.

    And it just got worse. Her reaction to Ray's flirting and trying to buy her with dresses and gifts! How shallow that character Felicity actually is! I really felt betrayed, because - as I said - I had build a different picture of Felicity in season one and two. And I think this annoyed me. So I guess it is my problem that the character simply was not as I had imagined it in the previous seasons.

    Still, worse it got. Her blaming Oliver for being how he was. When he was supposedly dead by Ra's sword, her telling everybody how Oliver would never ally with Malcom and when later he did, instead of wondering if she really knew Oliver as well as she claimed she blamed him for not being how she had told everybody he was. I felt back at Clana again, her just not getting over Clark being different than she wanted him to be. But while I could accept it this in teenage Lana, it really did irritate me in much older Felicity.

    Laurel, another of my favourites of season one and two, also was not as I would have expected her to be. She took the mantle for all the wrong reasons in all the wrong ways. But at least this was a theme and other characters confronted her about it. But not Felicity, she never reflected on herself nor did other characters ever say anything until Tatzu told her not to make the same mistake as she had done with Maseo near the end of the season, at which point I was so disappointed by Felicity I didn't care for her getting together with Oliver again. And Felicity's tries to take command, seriously, she is no natural alpha and she clearly never watched Oliver enough to learn that as a leader one needs to know how to control one's emotions. Her mom needing to tell her she is in love with Oliver (does Felicity not know her own feelings???), and even after she supposedly knew that she loved Oliver she kept flirting with poor Ray. And the farther the season went the less her sense of reality seemed to be, finally reaching it's summit in telling Ra's that she, herself, would thwart his plans regarding Oliver. With what power? Her hacking skills? And even if she had a plan at that time (and she didn't !) should not have more than two years working with Oliver taught her to not tell her enemy about it?

    How they milked Sara's death was actually quite enjoyable, Roy having to deal with what he did on Mirakuru, the different possible ways Sara could have been killed - but ultimately it never made sense. Supposedly Malcom drugged Thea to kill Sara so that Oliver would challenge and kill Ra's and Malcom would be free again. But why in all the world did Malcom think that Oliver could beat Ra's in a sword fight? Malcom knew that Oliver was not as good at it as he himself. So why should he be able to beat Ra's? Still makes no sense to me.

    So, while I did enjoy watching season three again, I also (again) had a hard time to accept that one of my favourite character of season one and two was actually a shallow power hungry girl who had nothing in mind but how to marry a Disney prince (Felicity saying that Ray looked like a Disney prince I found really enlightening about her mindset and goals in season three) and make herself a Disney princess no matter who gets hurt by it. It is why I do cherish that finally in season five they started to develop Felicity as a character, so that one day maybe I might find the Felicity from season one and two again. The other reason is that I really hate it when there are loose ends or story inconsistencies or not revealed motives and plots at the end of a season. They did the same in season five, I don't think Chase really was making sense in the end ... or the middle ... or the beginning and I hope that we learn more about Chase and his motives and goals in season six.

    What about you? What did you like, what did you hate, what annoyed you in season three?
    Last edited by Freawaru; 08-27-2017 at 02:19 AM.

  2. #2
    The artist formerly known as "KryptonSite" KSiteTV's Avatar
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    If I had to mark any major turning point it was probably when Oliver "died." And then there was the whole thing where Felicity was leading Ray on when she was clearly still into Oliver. But I also don't think "Oliver as Ra's" really quite worked as a story.

    The season premiere is up there as one of my favorites, aside from the lightswitch Olicity.

  3. #3
    Battle Troll DJ Doena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSiteTV View Post
    If I had to mark any major turning point it was probably when Oliver "died."
    That was actually when I stopped watching. Not deliberately. Not at once. I watched a few more episodes of his resurrection. But that was the time period I simply lost interest in the show. I can't even explain why that was, exactly. But then the reports came in on how badly they treated Slade at the end of the season. Mind you: I'm not a comic reader, all I knew about GA was from Smallville, so I'm not in the "that's not how you treat a canon character" group. I simply came to like the Deathstroke character, even though his motivations for going after Ollie in S2 were far-fetched IMHO. And then the reports came in about the messy season 4 and I simply never returned to the show except for the x-overs.

    The "problem" about today's peak TV is that there's so much good stuff out there that I just don't have the patience to endure a slew of bad episodes anymore. I'll just move on and say "so long and thanks for all the fish". In today's day and age, Star Trek: The Next Generation would have never made it to season 3 with the previous two seasons being what they are.

    The more out-of-sync I get with a show being aired and me actually watching the episodes, they higher the risk becomes that I will never watch it. To put that into perspective: I've never watched Friends or Buffy during their original airing, but once I've started them, I watched them straight through. As for bad examples, I watched LOST to the bitter end in the faint hope that there might be an explanation other than "the island has a bathtub plug and Jacob has a thing for numbers". So there's a threshold for me for actually abandon a series. But in recent years it has become easier.

  4. #4
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    I'd also agree that "The Climb" was the pinnacle of S3 -- and sadly the season stumbled after it as the weeks went on. Had it been a shorter season, say 10-13 eps., I feel The Climb would have made a great cliffhanger season finale. Fans would have lost their minds over the summer wondering if Oliver had lived or died, etc.

    The details are foggier as it has been two years ago, but this is what comes to mind:

    S3's deterioration wasn't as quick a fall as Oliver off that cliff, but it was a gradual combination of things.

    Oliver's inexplicable recovery due to little more than penicillin tea (I understand that they wanted to keep the show more "grounded" and vacillated between staying real or diving headlong into the fantastical aka magic, metas, etc. -- but they decided to make their symbolic last stand on it ... with penicillin tea? I would have rolled with a dip in the Lazarus Pit as a better explanation for Oliver's recovery); the Raylicity melodrama -- Ray pulled the short straw in that mess -- as he was merely a speed bump on the road to Olicity; the watering down of Ra's in the following weeks from the man who had nearly slayed Oliver/Arrow to the dude who got his butt easily handed to him -- it was like Ra's was weakened over the next few weeks storywise by a death of a thousand cuts. By the finale, he and the threat he and the LOA posed was a shadow of what it had been in the lead up to The Climb.

    And it was the third time that Starling City was under attack too. At least they had the sense to make Quentin acknowledge it: "Must be May."

    Laurel finally got a (late) start on her civilian-to-BC journey -- a journey that probably could not start if Sara was still around, as the Canary's existence put Laurel behind the eight ball (unfairly, I might add) from the moment Sara put on the mask.

    (More of a S2 beef of mine: If BC was Laurel's endgame -- why by Hera would you introduce a virtually similar-looking (and named!) vigilante ahead of her ... before Laurel was even at the starting gate, that would so obviously invite unfair comparisons before Laurel was even in the superhero game?)

    Whether people liked or hated Laurel/BC, her journey wasn't ideal for a variety of reasons and I lay the blame squarely in the hands of the writers and showrunners on that. Yeah, they love their original characters -- the Saras, the Theas, the Felicitys, etc. -- but their love for them shouldn't have come at the expense of other characters. All I will add is that, they could have let Laurel's BC journey play out, but they chose not to wait and appeared to giddily let social media fandom dictate when and how a Canary would pop up in their universe.

    And there's no denying that, as the show ramped up Felicity's conversion on the show from a supporting character (S1-late S2) to a lead character (late S2 thru S3) and the parallel escalation of her status to Oliver's primary love interest, it would impact the season (and series, legacy-wise) in ways that maybe they should have thought about before drinking the "Shipping is everything!" kool-aid that permeated this season.

    In hindsight, this was arguably Malcolm Merlyn's last season as a relevant character to the Arrow story. His training Thea was probably his final interesting contribution to Arrow, and his becoming the next Ra's was more like Round 1 of the show's extending his "best before" expiry date as an interesting character.

    S3 was not the worst season of Arrow -- this title belongs to S4 without question. But it was weaker than S2 and I can now say that S5 easily surpasses it too.

    S5 was a welcome course correction in this regard. Had they continued the pattern they started in S3 with no changes, I'm not sure how committed a viewer I'd still be.

  5. #5
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    The moment Marc Guggenheim became the sole showrunner.

  6. #6
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    Season3 started to suck THE moment they decided to pull the trigger on making Felicity the main love story for Oliver. Once that happened, things went down hill, fast.

    People shouldn't blame Ra's for why season 3 sucked. Despite them making Ra's slightly younger (He's 600 years old in the original comics and Batman animated TV series), he literally was a faithful transition from comic to TV. Literally everything he tried to do in season 3 was ripped right out of the Batman playbook.

    The Problem with the League of Assassins story that season was having Oliver infiltrate the League. The essentially used that as the starting point for the big Felicity push. THAT'S essentially what dragged Arrow down into the pit that it's been unable to climb out of.

    And that's allllll on the writers. That has nothing to do with Arrow's cannon or lack there of. The writers and show runners decided that Felicity was the queen's baby and that she should be treated as royalty, all other characters be damned.

    Oh well. At least comic fans can still appreciate seasons 1 and 2.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSiteTV View Post
    If I had to mark any major turning point it was probably when Oliver "died."
    Ah, thanks, I forgot that one. Re-watching it, the fight with Ra's and Oliver dying I thought actually quite good. But it was never solved how he survived (or was resurrected ???). The whole season I waited for how he survived the fall, so that he could lie there on the cliff with only the sword wounds for Maseo to be found. In season four it might have been suggested that Constantine had something to do with it - it also never was solved how Oliver knew that Constantine could place Sara's soul back into her body so maybe he knew because Constantine had done it to him. Still, after Smallville where they never solved all those questions they raised in the middle seasons I worried.

    Quote Originally Posted by KSiteTV View Post
    And then there was the whole thing where Felicity was leading Ray on when she was clearly still into Oliver.
    I fully agree here. They very much destroyed one of my favorite characters (namely Felicity) from season one and two.

    Quote Originally Posted by KSiteTV View Post
    But I also don't think "Oliver as Ra's" really quite worked as a story.
    Yes, but because they didn't solve it, IMO. I mean, Ra's clearly wanted Oliver to kill him (I am still not convinced Ra's had no water of the Pit to save himself before he died completely). Oliver just didn't see it. Re-watching I feel quite sure now that Ra's only did all this "use the virus on Oliver's city" to get Oliver finally to kill him. The final episode, where Ra's send Oliver one of his minions to give him the clue and also Ra's reaction when Oliver finally killed him suggest this. But in one of the earlier episodes when Oliver threatened Ra's with an arrow Ra's told Oliver that Oliver would automatically become Ra's when he killed him. So all this infiltration and doing what Ra's wants and acting as if he had been brainwashed Oliver could have skipped if he had killed Ra's earlier. Of course, then he would not have been married to Nyssa and that would have been a shame - it is so funny.

    I would really have liked it if we, the audience, at some point learned how it all really happened. What was the plan of Ra's? How was Malcom involved? Ra's said when he died that he had chosen Oliver, this suggests a bit more action on Ra's part than just following a prophesy. It all just does not add up to so far.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Doena View Post
    That was actually when I stopped watching. Not deliberately. Not at once. I watched a few more episodes of his resurrection. But that was the time period I simply lost interest in the show. I can't even explain why that was, exactly. But then the reports came in on how badly they treated Slade at the end of the season. Mind you: I'm not a comic reader, all I knew about GA was from Smallville, so I'm not in the "that's not how you treat a canon character" group. I simply came to like the Deathstroke character, even though his motivations for going after Ollie in S2 were far-fetched IMHO.
    I know what you mean. Slade is my fav character, too. And all season three and four I waited for him to return. I do hope they will make a Deathstroke series with Manu Bennet as a spinoff of Arrow because I like THIS Slade Wilson. (My dream is Nyssa as another regular in this series.)

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Doena View Post
    And then the reports came in about the messy season 4 and I simply never returned to the show except for the x-overs.
    Did you watch the finale of season five?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Doena View Post
    The "problem" about today's peak TV is that there's so much good stuff out there that I just don't have the patience to endure a slew of bad episodes anymore. I'll just move on and say "so long and thanks for all the fish". In today's day and age, Star Trek: The Next Generation would have never made it to season 3 with the previous two seasons being what they are.
    Neither would have STDS9 and it is still one of the best series ever, IMO. I usually give series a certain time to find themselves. But occasionally I simply give up, too. For example Gotham. I tried it again and again but it simply does not seem to be the kind of series I like so I gave up.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Doena View Post
    The more out-of-sync I get with a show being aired and me actually watching the episodes, they higher the risk becomes that I will never watch it. To put that into perspective: I've never watched Friends or Buffy during their original airing, but once I've started them, I watched them straight through. As for bad examples, I watched LOST to the bitter end in the faint hope that there might be an explanation other than "the island has a bathtub plug and Jacob has a thing for numbers". So there's a threshold for me for actually abandon a series. But in recent years it has become easier.
    I only know Buffy and I agree it was really good .

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    I'd also agree that "The Climb" was the pinnacle of S3 -- and sadly the season stumbled after it as the weeks went on. Had it been a shorter season, say 10-13 eps., I feel The Climb would have made a great cliffhanger season finale. Fans would have lost their minds over the summer wondering if Oliver had lived or died, etc.
    Yes, as an episode it was real good. But too many questions left unanswered.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    The details are foggier as it has been two years ago, but this is what comes to mind:

    S3's deterioration wasn't as quick a fall as Oliver off that cliff, but it was a gradual combination of things.

    Oliver's inexplicable recovery due to little more than penicillin tea (I understand that they wanted to keep the show more "grounded" and vacillated between staying real or diving headlong into the fantastical aka magic, metas, etc. -- but they decided to make their symbolic last stand on it ... with penicillin tea? I would have rolled with a dip in the Lazarus Pit as a better explanation for Oliver's recovery);
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    the Raylicity melodrama -- Ray pulled the short straw in that mess -- as he was merely a speed bump on the road to Olicity; the watering down of Ra's in the following weeks from the man who had nearly slayed Oliver/Arrow to the dude who got his butt easily handed to him -- it was like Ra's was weakened over the next few weeks storywise by a death of a thousand cuts. By the finale, he and the threat he and the LOA posed was a shadow of what it had been in the lead up to The Climb.
    My explanation is now that Ra's actually wanted Oliver to win, but I think they should have showed this somehow. I mean, Ra's told Oliver that he wanted a successor because the Pit didn't work on him any more. A lie, because one or two eps later we see Ra's hand healed by the Pit. So I really would want to know what was going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    And it was the third time that Starling City was under attack too. At least they had the sense to make Quentin acknowledge it: "Must be May."
    I liked that.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    Laurel finally got a (late) start on her civilian-to-BC journey -- a journey that probably could not start if Sara was still around, as the Canary's existence put Laurel behind the eight ball (unfairly, I might add) from the moment Sara put on the mask.
    Yes, Laurel's path was not as I would have envisioned it. Still, she was way better written than Felicity, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    (More of a S2 beef of mine: If BC was Laurel's endgame -- why by Hera would you introduce a virtually similar-looking (and named!) vigilante ahead of her ... before Laurel was even at the starting gate, that would so obviously invite unfair comparisons before Laurel was even in the superhero game?)
    I have absolutely no idea. In season one Laurel was already into martial arts and quite the badass as shown when she defended Oliver and Tommy from that old "friend" of theirs who owned a bar. I really expected them to simply increase this and have her go and solve with the Hood this or that
    crime because Starling Cities justice system failed until she decided to take a mask herself.

    Maybe the wanted Sara to return so that Oliver could solve the problems with Quentin and Laurel. But why they made her a proto canary I really cannot understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    Whether people liked or hated Laurel/BC, her journey wasn't ideal for a variety of reasons and I lay the blame squarely in the hands of the writers and showrunners on that. Yeah, they love their original characters -- the Saras, the Theas, the Felicitys, etc. -- but their love for them shouldn't have come at the expense of other characters. All I will add is that, they could have let Laurel's BC journey play out, but they chose not to wait and appeared to giddily let social media fandom dictate when and how a Canary would pop up in their universe.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    And there's no denying that, as the show ramped up Felicity's conversion on the show from a supporting character (S1-late S2) to a lead character (late S2 thru S3) and the parallel escalation of her status to Oliver's primary love interest, it would impact the season (and series, legacy-wise) in ways that maybe they should have thought about before drinking the "Shipping is everything!" kool-aid that permeated this season.
    Yes, they COULD have written Felicity better. Anything would have been better than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    In hindsight, this was arguably Malcolm Merlyn's last season as a relevant character to the Arrow story. His training Thea was probably his final interesting contribution to Arrow, and his becoming the next Ra's was more like Round 1 of the show's extending his "best before" expiry date as an interesting character.
    I somehow like Malcom, but yes, I agree. Still, I think they could have given him some development, too. Personally, I like it when recurring characters recur and not vanish one way or the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    S3 was not the worst season of Arrow -- this title belongs to S4 without question. But it was weaker than S2 and I can now say that S5 easily surpasses it too.
    S5 was a welcome course correction in this regard. Had they continued the pattern they started in S3 with no changes, I'm not sure how committed a viewer I'd still be.
    I agree. In season 5 they even started to develop Felicity. If they had done this in season three I would have liked that season much better because it really also had some good stories and characters. It is odd that one character can make such an impact. I have disliked main characters in series before (Kira in Deep Space Nine for example) but they never dominated my view of the series as much as Felicity did.

  10. #10
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    You guys do realize that Laurel in 1x03 taking Max Fuller out from attacking his backside and flipping him over onto the ground, hardly makes her any qualified martial arts expert?

    Now yes Laurel has shown some other combat skills like when taking down Vanch's men and I think one other time in season 2 with the Mirakuru solider.

    Even still as much as Laurel's other martial art's skills kind of vanished in season 3, I just look at it of while Laurel may have had self defense skills they are she still had a long way to go when they got put to actual street level/vigilante fighting.

    I mean when you have showrunners telling Katie in season 1 to handle a shotgun poorly because they don't want her to be to badass well makes me question some things.

    Now what I think should have done as establish in season one Laurel as a way to cope with the Gambit going down, ended up meeting Ted Grant who was a former vigilante and began training with him for 5 solid years and she began getting training in combat skills that are needed to survive on the streets as well.
    Last edited by Haggard01; 09-04-2017 at 07:38 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    You guys do realize that Laurel in 3x01 taking Max Fuller out from attacking his backside and flipping him over onto the ground, hardly makes her any qualified martial arts expert?

    Now yes Laurel has shown some other combat skills like when taking down Vanch's men and I think one other time in season 2 with the Mirakuru solider.

    Even still as much as Laurel's other martial art's skills vanished in season 2, I just look at it of while Laurel may have had self defense skills they are she still had a long way to go when they got put to actual street level/vigilante fighting.
    I agree, though I doubt that she had just a few self defence classes at that time. First, she attacked. Second, she was quite fast and had a clear technique and all. (In self defence you learn how to survive not how to disarm). So while in first season she was not portrayed as the martial art expert of the comics she was portrayed as someone who was doing martial arts fighting (not street fighting !) for some time already and had some aptitude for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    I mean when you have showrunners telling Katie in season 1 to handle a shotgun poorly because they don't want her to be to badass well makes me question some things.
    Yes, this makes no sense. Quentin had shown her how to shoot after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    Now what I think should have done as establish in season one Laurel as a way to cope with the Gambit going down ended up meeting Ted Grant and began training with him for 5 solid years who was a former vigilante and she began getting training in vigilante combat skills as well.
    Yes, this would have made sense. Or even if she had started to train with him in season one (as she did in season three) to defend herself better (she had been attacked after all and was in a dangerous line of work (at least in Starling City)) and then taken things into her own hand when the justice system failed again and she didn't want the Hood to drop bodies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrantLord View Post
    Season3 started to suck THE moment they decided to pull the trigger on making Felicity the main love story for Oliver. Once that happened, things went down hill, fast.
    While I agree I still wonder why. Re-watching it I saw that Felicty and Olicity didn't have that much screen time and most other aspects were actually not that different than in season one and two. So why does Felicity seem to dominate the series so much?

    Quote Originally Posted by TyrantLord View Post
    People shouldn't blame Ra's for why season 3 sucked. Despite them making Ra's slightly younger (He's 600 years old in the original comics and Batman animated TV series), he literally was a faithful transition from comic to TV. Literally everything he tried to do in season 3 was ripped right out of the Batman playbook.
    I enjoyed every scene with Ra's.

    Quote Originally Posted by TyrantLord View Post
    The Problem with the League of Assassins story that season was having Oliver infiltrate the League.
    I don't understand that. IMO, storywise and characterwise inflitration was and is something Oliver has been trained at - and something he is good at.
    Also, I think training with Ra's was not that bad for his skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by TyrantLord View Post
    The essentially used that as the starting point for the big Felicity push. THAT'S essentially what dragged Arrow down into the pit that it's been unable to climb out of.

    And that's allllll on the writers. That has nothing to do with Arrow's cannon or lack there of. The writers and show runners decided that Felicity was the queen's baby and that she should be treated as royalty, all other characters be damned.
    As Felicity was not developed as a character it does not seem to me as if she is all that important to the show runners and writers. I mean, if you have a favourite character you develop it, right? But since 3.6 Felicity was portrayed as someone annoying and not self-reflective, a hypocrite and as a really slow learner.

    Quote Originally Posted by TyrantLord View Post
    Oh well. At least comic fans can still appreciate seasons 1 and 2.
    Not only comic fans ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freawaru View Post
    I agree, though I doubt that she had just a few self defence classes at that time. First, she attacked. Second, she was quite fast and had a clear technique and all. (In self defence you learn how to survive not how to disarm). So while in first season she was not portrayed as the martial art expert of the comics she was portrayed as someone who was doing martial arts fighting (not street fighting !) for some time already and had some aptitude for it.

    Yes, this makes no sense. Quentin had shown her how to shoot after all.

    Yes, this would have made sense. Or even if she had started to train with him in season one (as she did in season three) to defend herself better (she had been attacked after all and was in a dangerous line of work (at least in Starling City)) and then taken things into her own hand when the justice system failed again and she didn't want the Hood to drop bodies.
    Ah that makes sense for how the self defense and martial arts.

    I wish they actually focused a bit more of Laurel having studied martial arts training and such or you know clarify what she actually learned.

    Yep on the shotgun thing which doesn't make sense.

    That could work for Laurel began training in season 1 with Ted then eventually suting up.

  14. #14
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    i actully liked season 3 excpet that sara died but beside that it was great to see oliver overcome ras and in that season was alot of exciting and thrilling moments

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