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  1. #31
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Many SV fans also found the TWoP moderation quite odd and one-sided at times, in the sense that it was allowed to deride and near-slander actors (e.g. Erica Durance) without being reprimanded, while "picking fights" with other members was apparently such a major offense that it would result in a ban.
    This is a great example of the posters NOT learning the rules. Yes, you could say just about anything you wanted about the actors but you couldn't start fights or attack other posters. And yes, it was a MAJOR offense.

    The trolls and yes, I call them trolls since they came just to start fights, that came didn't bother to learn what was allowed and what wasn't. If you followed the no board on boards rule, you could say just about anything. If you targeted a comment AT someone, you go in trouble because attacking posters was never allowed. They could have derided AM or other favs and been allowed to stick around forever, but eventually they always made it personal so they got bumped by the mods.

    And yeah, the ones that kept complaining about TWoP were the ones that never learned and got bumped. It really wasn't hard. They posted the rules. It's just that they DEMANDED the rules be followed. It's why I liked that place. You could have heated debates without it becoming attacks. But people that didn't understand the rules never understood the difference and after a few years, I stopped trying to educate new people. I was able to figure it all out on my own, I no longer saw any reason to molly coddle people that were there just to cause trouble.

    Yes, TWoP had a lot and probably a majority of pro Chloe posters, but like gravitates to like on forums. There's no test to get on a forum, but if you like what most people are saying, you are more likely to stick around. It's why there are few dissenting voices on reddit. The majority of pro Olicity posters won't go to a place that is filled with talk they don't like.

    Personally, before I ever realized how much bitter and vulger, hate filled crap is spewed on it, (there is a big difference between being even the most sarcastic snark and bitter vulgarity) I hated reddit because it was such a disorderly mess. I couldn't tolerate the chaos of the system. The lack of organization. No accountability. The constant overlap of the same stuff. It's a forum for stating an immediate opinion or two but not IMO one for having a discussion let alone an ongoing civil discussion.

    I often have wondered if there is something about the more structured nature of forums such as TWoP and Previously that draws a certain kind of shipper. Is there a connection between liking IMO how certain relationships work and liking rules and structure? The jury is out.

  2. #32
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    This is a great example of the posters NOT learning the rules. Yes, you could say just about anything you wanted about the actors but you couldn't start fights or attack other posters. And yes, it was a MAJOR offense
    I'm actually aware of these (to my mind) rather odd rules. I mean, mocking, bodyshaming and slandering actors that some members might like/admire is IMHO just as much "picking a fight" as anything else, so I don't see why this kind of behavior should be regarded as less offensive or non-offensive. It also seems to me that the TWoP moderators were often just as biased as the dominant forum clique. To give just one example: I know someone who was banned from the oliciter-dominated TWoP "Arrow" forum because he called Olicity a fanservice ship. I guess the same posters who mocked Katie Cassidy for her "botox looks" were SO sensitive to any kind of criticism of their ship that they considered an opinion that is VERY widespread and non-controversial in the non-shipper fandom as "starting a fight"...and hence such a MAJOR offense that it warranted a moderator ban. I personally don't regard expressing an opinion about a fictional relationship as an offense, just as I don't regard comments about an actor's talent or skills offensive. However, I do object when posters adopt a derisive/slanderous/suspicious attitude towards an actor's looks/personality/private life, because I don't think that kind of discourse has any place on a public forum. This attitude becomes extra annoying when the same peeps who find it OK to behave in this way towards SOME actors on social media start clutching their pearls and complain about "hate" or "vulgarity" when their own fave is treated in a similar manner.

    I personally think respect that towards the actors is just as important as not being confrontational towards other posters. Forum rules, just like laws, are not perfect or exempt from criticism. Furthermore, adherence to forum rules is not per se any guarantee for a friendly or inclusionary atmosphere if the majority of the posters follow the same "company line" and have the same biases.

    Anyway, as I said in my other post, I was pretty astounded by the prevailing tone/attitude when I went through the TWoP "Smallville" archives. IMHO the regular TWoP posters displayed as much "bitterness, hate and vulgarity" as the reddit F-boys....the only difference is that is was covered by a thin veneer of allegedly intelligent "snark" and "gentility". Besides, no matter how "vulgar" you might think the reddit posters are, I'll tell you something. On reddit you very seldom see posters talking about actors and their personality/private life in the mean-spirited and slanderous manner that the posters on the SV TWoP talked about SOME actors (because OTHER actors were treated as if they were the Queen of Sheba). And it doesn't matter if these folks followed the forum rules to the tee, since I happen to think that human decency and respect is just as important as some IMHO rather odd and arbitrary forum regulations.

    As for reddit, I started reading forum posts in season two, when Laurel was the designated forum punch bag, and I still enjoyed the discussions. If you disregard the "sh**tposting" and the more vehement posts, there is a lot intelligent discussion as well (if you bother to read the threads). And despite the "party line", there is IMHO more leeway for differing opinions than on many other "Arrow" forums.

    I'm going to stop here, since this is really a meta-discussion.
    Last edited by evaba; 06-24-2017 at 09:31 AM.

  3. #33
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    As for reddit, I started reading forum posts in season two, when Laurel was the designated forum punch bag, and I still enjoyed the discussions. If you disregard the "sh**tposting" and the more vehement posts, there is a lot intelligent discussion as well, if you bother to read the threads. And despite the "party line", there is IMHO more leeway for differing opinions than on many other "Arrow" forums.
    Like I said, I tried back then but the lack of organization was so awful that I gave up.

    .the only difference is that is was covered by a thin veneer of allegedly intelligent "snark" and "gentility". Besides, no matter how "vulgar" you might think the reddit posters are, I'll tell you something. On reddit you very seldom see posters talking about actors and their personality/private life in the mean-spirited and slanderous manner that the posters on the SV TWoP talked about SOME actors (because OTHER actors were treated as if they were the Queen of Sheba). And it doesn't matter if these folks followed the forum rules to the tee, since I happen to think that human decency and respect is just as important as some IMHO rather odd and arbitrary forum regulations
    Hey, if that veneer of civility is what also managed to keep anyone from threatening to rape or kill other posters, I'm good with that.

  4. #34
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    Hey, if that veneer of civility is what also managed to keep anyone from threatening to rape or kill other posters, I'm good with that.
    There are 70.000 members on the "Arrow" reddit forum. As far as I know there has been ONE case of such threats, which was also dealt with by the moderators. This happened in early 2016 and since then there haven't been any reports of any such (off-forum) misbehavior or threats.

    As for the lack of in-fighting on the TWoP forum it's not that exceptional IMHO, since 99% of the regulars seemed to belong to the hardcore Chloe/Chlark/Chlois faction of the Smallville fandom! But maybe all "dissenters" had been driven away by that time....
    Last edited by evaba; 06-24-2017 at 10:45 AM.

  5. #35
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    @Bkwurm1 and Evaba

    I have to Bkwurm1's one side on this. Basically to keep things short, I deleted my account not a short while ago because I fed up with the Laurel fans acting like Olicty shippers. I couldn't even post anything without getting attacks, and I got cyberstalked by some of the posters as well.

    So you've got a whole site of Laurel fans all right. One where the mods don't even bother enforcing any organization, rules or anything and if you report a person literally nothing happens.

    ArrowReddit maybe has only a tiny handful of good posters and a very small handful like maybe 7 if I'm being really generous.

    So yeah Bkwurm1 might not have all the facts straight but she's pretty straight on for what the place is.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    @Bkwurm1 and Evaba

    I have to Bkwurm1's one side on this. Basically to keep things short, I deleted my account not a short while ago because I fed up with the Laurel fans acting like Olicty shippers. I couldn't even post anything without getting attacks, and I got cyberstalked by some of the posters as well.

    So you've got a whole site of Laurel fans all right. One where the mods don't even bother enforcing any organization, rules or anything and if you report a person literally nothing happens.

    ArrowReddit maybe has only a tiny handful of good posters and a very small handful like maybe 7 if I'm being really generous.

    So yeah Bkwurm1 might not have all the facts straight but she's pretty straight on for what the place is.
    I saw your post on reddit. I never said that it's an ideal forum...in fact, it's far from ideal, and some posters go overboard with their sh**tposting. I just happen to think that most reddit posters are pretty decent when it comes to how the ACTORS are treated...for example, they may trash Felicity, but they seldom badmouth/slander EBR (they do critique her acting, but I personally think such comments are legit, since they concern her professional life). I'm also surprised that you feel the whole site is full of Laurel fans, when I keep seeing posts from people who couldn't stand Laurel when she was on the show, and who prefer Juliana's Dinah as BC. But maybe these people's posts get lost in the shuffle?

    For the record I also have a problem with people who attack Juliana on twitter, or b***tch endlessly about her taking Laurel's place. I'm content with Laurel as Black Siren, and I actually like JH's acting, to the point where I hope that Dinah gets a more substantial storyline in season six.
    Last edited by evaba; 06-24-2017 at 02:05 PM.

  7. #37
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    Ok maybe I was a little short on the not "Laurel who follow Olicty fans" number wise but there's not many of them. My point is for a site that says "Oh we welcome all discussion" is very clearly one that really does not.

  8. #38
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    Ok maybe I was a little short on the not "Laurel who follow Olicty fans" number wise but there's not many of them. My point is for a site that says "Oh we welcome all discussion" is very clearly one that really does not.
    You're right about that! But I take that as a sign of how divided the "Arrow" fandom has become. It's like back in the SV days, when each character/shipper fanbase had its own forum/turf, where dissenters weren't welcome. Of all the major "Arrow" forums that I know about, the Ksite forum seems like the least partisan/hardcore, at least in my eyes. The regulars here may have strong opinions, but they're still willing to discuss with those who have differing views.
    Last edited by evaba; 06-24-2017 at 02:57 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    You're right about that! But I take that as a sign of how divided the "Arrow" fandom has become. It's like back in the SV days, when each character/shipper fanbase had its own forum/turf, where dissenters weren't welcome. Of all the major "Arrow" forums that I know about, the Ksite forum seems like the least partisan/hardcore, at least in my eyes. The regulars here may have strong opinions, but they're still willing to discuss with those who have differing views.
    True for it being like Smallville back in the day.

    Same here for Ksite. Having seen various places like ArrowReddit, Twitter, Superhero hype forums for example and others I'll say Ksite is the most normal. Of we have people who have serious passion for their side of things but at the same time, we also have respect for the other people or at least most of us do. Outside of the occasional trolls that show up.

    Oh for what you said of

    For the record I also have a problem with people who attack Juliana on twitter, or b***tch endlessly about her taking Laurel's place. I'm content with Laurel as Black Siren, and I actually like JH's acting, to the point where I hope that Dinah gets a more substantial storyline in season six.
    That was actually one of the things which promoted me to leave ArrowReddit of how they treated Juliana and even Dinah Drake it was very much like the Olicty shippers who hate Laurel because she's a threat to Olicty.

    Along with the same hypocritical nature of when the Olicty shippers hate Laurel/KC it's wrong but when we do it, it's fine.

    In regards to Black Siren I do prefer her over Earth 1 Laurel. This role just more of seems to suit Katie and it's more enjoyable to watch her play Earth 2 Laurel.

    While I hope Dinah Drake gets better stuff for season 6, I have this feeling she'll be kept like Laurel in season 4 was r how she was in season 5.

    The showrunners have talked about doing far more with Felcity then with the Black Siren, Dinah Drake or even Oliver. Not that it's surprising given it's them.

  10. #40
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    To put it shorly: Arrow fandom is so polarized that it's better to stay away from it as far as possible if you want to keep some of you sanity intact.



    ^ That's how I imagine the situation currently (need to draw Arrow version with Ollie sitting there ).

    There is some interesting discussions on reddit, but also a lot shitposting and post "kill off XYZ" - those are as constructive as Olicity shippers tweets. And yes, I've seen some people "dealing in extremes" focused on Laurel and Black Siren. Anyway, I spend more time on fanfiction reddit recently.

    Not sure if Dinah Drake will be allowed to grow as the character. The writers used the very same strategy as with other character "developements" - they've pushed her into BC part and think that it shall do. But it's nothing that they haven't done before. I hope that both Juliana and Rick will have more scenes in S6, because they've more potential than the dynamics between The Original Tripod.
    Last edited by Amarice; 06-26-2017 at 03:29 AM.

  11. #41
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    Speaking of the GA Rebirth comics, here is a lovely piece of comic book art, featuring the iconic Green Arrow and Black Canary pairing:

    Attachment 16857

    There is an adult feel to this portrayal that is IMHO woefully missing in the current "Arrow" romance arc....

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