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  1. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by acer15 View Post
    How will Oliver clear his name and become the arrow again ?
    Currently unknown. But knowing the Arrow writers, they'll use some deux ex machina rather than make Oliver work for it. Watson will get killed or revealed to be a corrupt LEO is one option; ARGUS throwing their weight around is another. If they actually don't do this and make Oliver work to clear his name so he can be GA again, I'll be surprised. But the season so far hasn't shown they're willingness to learn.

    Example: William would not be just fine with his newly-found father dating someone, much less marrying them, mere months after his mother died. A kid's logic would see that as the newly-found dad wanting the kid to accept the new woman as a 'stepmom' despite any claims to the contrary, and would result in moodiness and a rebellious attitude. So far... yeah. William somehow loves Felicity (as expected since Guggenheim and his team can't write anyone having a negative opinion of her, even villains), and will probably be just fine with that, and will be just fine with Oliver becoming GA again despite having been the reason for Oliver leaving the team in the first place.

    So I have little doubt that 'all will be easily resolved' rather than them making the characters work for it.

  2. #527
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    William would not be just fine with his newly-found father dating someone, much less marrying them, mere months after his mother died. A kid's logic would see that as the newly-found dad wanting the kid to accept the new woman as a 'stepmom' despite any claims to the contrary, and would result in moodiness and a rebellious attitude.
    Why wouldn't he be fine? His newly found father wasn't dating his mom. He'd have no reason to be jealous for his mom. And no one is trying to make Felicity into his new mom. She's played tutor and playmate so far. And she lets him eat ice cream for dinner and plays video games with him AND makes his dad less grumpy. This isn't a situation where dad leaves, divorces mom and starts a new relationship and the kid is resentful. It takes more work to come up with reasons why Wiliam would freak out about Felicity than not.

    I do think he's going to be upset about Oliver lying to him about being GA but you likely will be right that he'll get over it eventually. But I don't think they will do it with no fallout or blowback.

    I do think that Oliver will win his court case not just because if he didn't, the show would be set in a prison but I think they will have him win so that Double Jeopardy rules kick in and then at the end of the season he tells the world he is the GA, he can't be prosecuted. I maintain it's a terrible idea (not to mention he'd be tried for any future crimes technically) but after that comment Agent Watson made about vigilantes hiding behind masks or something like that, it seems the natural progression.

  3. #528
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    So William finally gets to find out that Oliver broke his promise. The question is will Willaim actually be mad?

  4. #529
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    I think they handled William finding out about Oliver still suiting up well.

    So who sent the bad information from Corto Maltese? With Katrina Law coming back, are we supposed to think it was Malcom Merlyn? But he only does things to benefit himself and I don't see the benefit to him from that.

  5. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by katakombs View Post
    I think they handled William finding out about Oliver still suiting up well.

    So who sent the bad information from Corto Maltese? With Katrina Law coming back, are we supposed to think it was Malcom Merlyn? But he only does things to benefit himself and I don't see the benefit to him from that.
    Malcolm seems like a logical choice but just from a filming standpoint, we've had nothing to hint that JB is coming back. I suppose it could be revealed that he set it in motion before he died but still, to what purpose? And while the show could come up with some reason, it wouldn't be a good story to tell at this point if he's already dead.

    In the episode thread I suggesed maybe Richard Dragon did it as a way to get Cayden James to plan it all out and take out the GA so that Dragon could swoop in and take over the runway clear. I do like the twist that Oliver actuall DIDN't kill the son. Thank goodness.

  6. #531
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    The information send to Cayden James said that his son was killed because the Green Arrow was fighting a crime scene.

    But if Oliver wasn't in town, who was the vigilante who was fighting that day? That's the first thing James should have done, check that there really was a firefight that day.

    The person who pulled the wool over James' eyes has to be even smarter than Cayden James. Richard Dragon doesn't strike me as that person.

  7. #532
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Or maybe they just faked evidence of how the son died. Has James actually seen the body? Is there proof he actually was killed even with an arrow (let alone proof that he really was dead?)

  8. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by katakombs View Post
    I think they handled William finding out about Oliver still suiting up well.

    So who sent the bad information from Corto Maltese? With Katrina Law coming back, are we supposed to think it was Malcom Merlyn? But he only does things to benefit himself and I don't see the benefit to him from that.
    With Katrina Law coming back, I think it's Talia.

    Could Cayden James be the last al Ghul we haven't seen?

  9. #534
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    Superpyroman, who has posted accurate spoilers before, has shared a big spoiler for this week's Arrow episode:

    Disclaimer: I didn't watch the whole episeode. Just this one scene
    There's an explosion. Dinah got pinned down by some debris. Vigilante is wounded
    BS and Cayden arrive. BS sonic screamed Vigilante into a debris(?) sticking out of a wall
    Cayden orders BS to kill Vigilante
    "Don't make me doubt your loyalty too, Ms. Lance"
    Flashback of Dinah and Vigilante during the particle accelerator explosion
    BS sonic screamed Vigilante in his ears. Vigilante died

    https://www.reddit.com/r/arrow/comme...06e12_spoiler/

  10. #535
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    Love reading the (very varied!) reactions to these, while enjoying my pop corn!

    https://twitter.com/CW_Arrow/status/960573059697590272

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Be3pbyil...y=katiecassidy

  11. #536
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    Probably a new Black Siren mask? Don't know what she's done this season, but E2 Laurel always seemed too far gone to be redeemed, IMO. Whatever the case, it's hilarious how some people react to the prospect of their favorite character losing her alpha female status...

  12. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    Whatever the case, it's hilarious how some people react to the prospect of their favorite character losing her alpha female status...
    Would she, though? I mean, we all know that even if BS were to achieve redemption and join Team Arrow full-time, Felicity would still be hogging the spotlight like she always does, so...

  13. #538
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    Whatever the case, it's hilarious how some people react to the prospect of their favorite character losing her alpha female status...
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow08 View Post
    Would she, though? I mean, we all know that even if BS were to achieve redemption and join Team Arrow full-time, Felicity would still be hogging the spotlight like she always does, so...
    I really don't understand why these shippers are so vehemently against a possible BS redemption, especially since redeeming characters is a persistent Berlanti-verse trope. Furthermore, it is blatantly evident that Felicity is Guggenheim's love child, and that he is prepared to devote entire seasons to hacker arcs in order to give her prominence and screen time and to let her shine (even if it makes the titular hero look like a supporting character on his own show!). So, she will continue to be the alpha female for the show's entire run. Also, rather than giving more nuanced "anti-heroine" portrayal of Black Siren, the writers more or less (save from some redeeming moments) made her into a cardboard villainesse.....whose killings, unlike Oliver's 200-something killings/murders apparently cannot be excused, forgiven/redeemed or forgotten.

    However, the most clear sign that Uncle Guggie will go to great lengths in order to assure his nieces that Laurel II/Black Siren won't be any threat whatsoever to the epic Olicity romance is that she has hardly shared a scene with Oliver for half a season! And I'm not the only one who has noticed this....it has been commented on by others, e.g. this comment:

    Ever notice how Black Siren is almost never in a scene with Oliver? It's almost entirely with Lance with Thea helping him out. They don't want them to have any sort of relationship.
    In fact, Oliver hardly interacts with any other women apart from his sister and his wife, and he's been more or less locked up in this Olicity confinement since season three. For those of us who unlike Sara in "Fatal Legacies" don't feel the ELECTRIFYING chemistry every time Oliver and Felicity are in the vicinity of each other this makes for pretty boring viewing. With regards to his interactions with female characters other than the designated "love interest", Oliver has gone from a pretty multi-faceted character who was allowed to interact with a variety of women to a prop for Guggenheim's favourite fanbase, whose main role in the relationship department seems to be to provide GIF-able "Olicity moments" for the tumblr crowd.

    So, even if Black Siren is allowed to get some character development this season, Guggenheim and his writers will make sure she won't challenge Felicity's alpha female status or the Olicity romance (which despite its epicness apparently needs to be propped in a variety of ways). Of course, one could say that Felicity is the female lead, so she deserves the spotlight, just like Laurel I did in the early seasons. However, there is a big difference between season one/two Oliver and season 4/6 Oliver: in the earlier seasons there were several women who played an important role in Oliver's (emotional) life, even on a platonic level: Moira, Laurel, Felicity, Sara, Helena, Shado, McKenna and so on. Nowadays his somewhat deeper interactions/relationships has been narrowed down to ONE woman, who apparently is the ONLY one who is worthy of sharing this kind of scenes with him (a confinement which has become even more apparent in S6 when Thea has been MIA). Even though they're married (and maybe therefore should be the only ones who can be emotionally/sexually close), it's IMHO just bad screen writing. Good writers let their characters develop several relationships that go beyond simply exchanging expositional dialogue or participating in action scenes....you only need to check the Marvel comic book series to see how their main heroes are enmeshed in a complex weave of human relationships, even though they also have their designated "love interests".
    Last edited by evaba; 02-08-2018 at 04:53 AM.

  14. #539
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
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    ^^^especially now with what has happen in tonight's episode....looks like Black Siren will mainly have scenes with her "dad" going forward until she is potentially, redeemed. And then if she is redeemed and becomes a player on Team Arrow, the next question will be what happens to Dinah? Does she quit and sticks to being just a cop? Does she get killed off? Or does she move back to Central City or somewhere else and is written off the show? Whatever the case might be, there's room for only one Canary on the team, one of them will have to go and I have to say my feeling is Dinah will be the one to go because it they could've decided to have Black Siren die tonight after getting shot in the gut....but they didn't so let's see where this goes.

  15. #540
    10 years at KSite costas22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    However, the most clear sign that Uncle Guggie will go to great lengths in order to assure his nieces that Laurel II/Black Siren won't be any threat whatsoever to the epic Olicity romance is that she has hardly shared a scene with Oliver for half a season! And I'm not the only one who has noticed this....it has been commented on by others, e.g. this comment:
    Wow, first time I hear about this. I imagined that 13 episodes into the season Oliver would have shared some scenes with Black Siren. Especially when you consider that Oliver was the one who wanted to keep an eye on her in case there's a window of redemption. Can't believe they are still trying to make sure certain insecure shippers don't get upset. Even now that Olicity is well established as the endgame relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    So, even if Black Siren is allowed to get some character development this season, Guggenheim and his writers will make sure she won't challenge Felicity's alpha female status or the Olicity romance (which despite its epicness apparently needs to be propped in a variety of ways).
    No, I don't think she will either. The status of Felicity and Olicity won't change this late in the series. I just think that some of their fans are afraid that it still might happen and that's why they prefer Earth 2 Laurel as a second rate villain. It leaves the Arrowcave all to Felicity as far as female characters are concerned (Tina was never considered a threat in that regard).

    Without knowing any details about this season, my guess is that one of two things will happen: Black Siren will find redemption by sacrificing herself to save Quentin or Quentin will sacrifice himself to save her and that's when she will turn to the good side. And if the latter happens, I feel that Black Siren will be shipped off to Legends of Tomorrow next season, where they can play off on her weird relationship with Sara. I seriously doubt there'll be 2 Canaries in the Arrowcave next season.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSecretVampire View Post
    ^^^especially now with what has happen in tonight's episode....looks like Black Siren will mainly have scenes with her "dad" going forward until she is potentially, redeemed. And then if she is redeemed and becomes a player on Team Arrow, the next question will be what happens to Dinah? Does she quit and sticks to being just a cop? Does she get killed off? Or does she move back to Central City or somewhere else and is written off the show? Whatever the case might be, there's room for only one Canary on the team, one of them will have to go and I have to say my feeling is Dinah will be the one to go because it they could've decided to have Black Siren die tonight after getting shot in the gut....but they didn't so let's see where this goes.
    Last year Guggenheim was asked about Tina's status (I think it was right after Katie Cassidy's return as a series regular was announced) and he said that they are committed to the storyline they are doing with her. So one way or another, I think she will be he definitive Black Canary on this show from now on. I had little interest in her character and I don't know if she grew to be any more intriguing this season, but IMO it's for the best that Juliana keeps playing the role she was hired for. They shouldn't pull the same stunt on her that they did on Katie.

    Having Earth 2 Laurel play the Black Canary still won't rectify the horrible decision to kill off Earth 1 Laurel anyway. They had the chance of fixing that with the Lazarus Pit, with Flashpoint or with time travel and they stubbornly refused to do so (although apparently the Arrowverse writers didn't mind resurrecting Damian Darhk..)
    Last edited by costas22; 02-09-2018 at 02:10 AM.

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